How freewillism makes God Unjust !

[beloved57]

By freewillism i mean those who hold to the ancient heresy that Christ died for all men without exception and made salvation possible, if only men by an act of freewill will accept it ! They believe that God has punished Christ for the sins of all men without exception, which is again a lie, and it would make God unjust, if anyone Christ died for would be lost in their sins into the second death.

We must remember that God is a Just God, and He will by no means clear the guilty Ex 34:7

⁷ Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear[leave unpunished] the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth generation.

Also He will not condemn the Righteous Ps 37:32-33

³² The wicked watcheth the righteous, and seeketh to slay him.


³³ The Lord will not leave him[The Righteous] in his hand, nor condemn him[The Righteous] when he is judged.


This reminds me of the Lords discourse with Abraham about Lot, a Righteous man before God 2 Pet 2:7

And delivered just/righteous Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked:

God would not destroy, condemn the righteous lot with the wicked, for that would appear to be unjust, observe Gen 18:22-25


²² And the men turned their faces from thence, and went toward Sodom: but Abraham stood yet before the Lord.


²³ And Abraham drew near, and said, Wilt thou also destroy the righteous with the wicked?


²⁴ Peradventure there be fifty righteous within the city: wilt thou also destroy and not spare the place for the fifty righteous that are therein?

²⁵ That be far from thee to do after this manner, to slay the righteous with the wicked: and that the righteous should be as the wicked, that be far from thee: Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?

Now understand, those who teach that God will yet condemn people into the second death, people whom Christ died for, shed His Blood for, they are guilty of the above, that God would slay the righteous with the wicked. The righteous should be as the wicked !

And why is that ? Simply because the people Christ lived and died for are made Righteous before God Rom 5:19

¹⁹ For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one[Jesus Christ] shall many be made righteous.

See, every sinner Christ died for, God declares them Righteous before Him ! So you do the math, if God declares them Righteous, and yet condemns them with the wicked into the second death, that would make God Unjust, it would make scripture a Lie, because God would indeed be condemning the Righteous when he is Judge, contrary to the Truth of Ps 37:33

³³ The Lord will not leave him[The Righteous] in his hand, nor condemn him[The Righteous] when he is judged.

 

[ddavisbless]

Ecc 7. 20 so does that mean all men are doomed for hell.....Their is not a just man on earth that does good and sinneth not

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[beloved57]

Ecc 7. 20 so does that mean all men are doomed for hell.....Their is not a just man on earth that does good and sinneth not

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

Hey, did you read and understand the points I made with scripture?

 

[Nanja]

By freewillism i mean those who hold to the ancient heresy that Christ died for all men without exception and made salvation possible, if only men by an act of freewill will accept it ! They believe that God has punished Christ for the sins of all men without exception, which is again a lie, and it would make God unjust, if anyone Christ died for would be lost in their sins into the second death.

Amen! That's the fallacy of freewillism in a nutshell.

For if Christ died for all men without exception, and yet God sent some to the second death, that would surely make Him unjust.

We must remember that God is a Just God, and He will by no means clear the guilty Ex 34:7

⁷ Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear[leave unpunished] the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth generation.

Also He will not condemn the Righteous Ps 37:32-33

³² The wicked watcheth the righteous, and seeketh to slay him.


³³ The Lord will not leave him[The Righteous] in his hand, nor condemn him[The Righteous] when he is judged.


This reminds me of the Lords discourse with Abraham about Lot, a Righteous man before God 2 Pet 2:7

And delivered just/righteous Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked:

God would not destroy, condemn the righteous lot with the wicked, for that would appear to be unjust, observe Gen 18:22-25


²² And the men turned their faces from thence, and went toward Sodom: but Abraham stood yet before the Lord.


²³ And Abraham drew near, and said, Wilt thou also destroy the righteous with the wicked?


²⁴ Peradventure there be fifty righteous within the city: wilt thou also destroy and not spare the place for the fifty righteous that are therein?

²⁵ That be far from thee to do after this manner, to slay the righteous with the wicked: and that the righteous should be as the wicked, that be far from thee: Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?

Now understand, those who teach that God will yet condemn people into the second death, people whom Christ died for, shed His Blood for, they are guilty of the above, that God would slay the righteous with the wicked. The righteous should be as the wicked !

And why is that ? Simply because the people Christ lived and died for are made Righteous before God Rom 5:19

¹⁹ For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one[Jesus Christ] shall many be made righteous.

See, every sinner Christ died for, God declares them Righteous before Him ! So you do the math, if God declares them Righteous, and yet condemns them with the wicked into the second death, that would make God Unjust, it would make scripture a Lie, because God would indeed be condemning the Righteous when he is Judge, contrary to the Truth of Ps 37:33

³³ The Lord will not leave him[The Righteous] in his hand, nor condemn him[The Righteous] when he is judged.

Amen, there are those whom God is keeping Mercy for Ex. 34:7, only some men Rom. 9:23, His Elect, who were Chosen in Union with Christ before the foundation of the world to have forgiveness of sins Eph. 1:4-7. Christ was their Surety Heb. 7:22 in the Everlasting Covenant of Grace Heb.13:20, meaning He fulfilled all the conditions God's Law and Justice required, by His Perfect Obedience on their behalf Rom. 5:19. So no sin was imputed to them, but imputed to/laid on their Surety Christ in their stead Is. 53:6; Rom. 4:7-8 !

~~~

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

[MENTION=18654]ddavisbless[/MENTION]

Ecc 7. 20 so does that mean all men are doomed for hell.....Their is not a just man on earth that does good and sinneth not

All are born sinners and deserve only God's justice. Thanks be to God that He extends mercy to a great amount no man can number (Rev. 7:9):

http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...med-Theology&p=4559007&viewfull=1#post4559007

AMR

 

[Robert Pate]

[MENTION=18654]ddavisbless[/MENTION]



All are born sinners and deserve only God's justice. Thanks be to God that He extends mercy to a great amount no man can number (Rev. 7:9):

http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...med-Theology&p=4559007&viewfull=1#post4559007

AMR

We are all born as sinners without works. It is not our fault that we are sinners. Adam brought sin upon us, we had nothing to do with being sinners. "Wherefore, as by one man sin entered the world and death by sin and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned" Romans 5:12. We do not become sinners, we are made sinners by the disobedience of Adam.

Salvation has been provided for every one, Hebrews 2:9. So that now, "Whosoever that shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved" Romans 10;13.

 

[beloved57]

nanja

Amen, there are those whom God is keeping Mercy for Ex. 34:7, only some men Rom. 9:23, His Elect,

Amen, and that would be His Vessels of Mercy !

 

[Crucible]

The primary issue with unguided free will is that it essentially takes all control from God. This is way the Roman church felt it necessary to claim have an infallible pope, because without a direct human conduit there is no other providence to be had.

This is why Arminians and the like fail to establish a theology that isn't ultimately problematic- they've taken every mechanism of God's control out, and yet report that God is sovereign.

Predestination is the grail of Protestantism. Luther and Calvin both held to it, as did the other reformists. The one's who contested sovereign election came after the fact, and were largely students who eventually fell to their own biases.

It's a big part of the reason why people shouldn't take those like Robert Pate seriously, to say the least of MADists and every other contemporary heresy that's been spread around- they capture the minds of impressionable people, and that's all they do. Not to be confused with those who gather a better flock willing to know the real Covenant which God ordained

 

[Robert Pate]

nanja



Amen, and that would be His Vessels of Mercy !

We are all vessels of his mercy, "God was in Christ reconciling the world unto himself" 2 Corinthians 5:19.

Jesus has tasted death for everyone, Hebrews 2:9. You will become vessels of his wrath when you reject the doing and the dying of Jesus as the only means of your salvation, which you have done.

 

[Nanja]

nanja



Amen, and that would be His Vessels of Mercy !

Yes, exclusively!

But the rest are vessels of wrath Rom. 9:22!

~~~

 

[beloved57]

We are all born as sinners without works. It is not our fault that we are sinners. Adam brought sin upon us, we had nothing to do with being sinners. "Wherefore, as by one man sin entered the world and death by sin and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned" Romans 5:12. We do not become sinners, we are made sinners by the disobedience of Adam.

Salvation has been provided for every one, Hebrews 2:9. So that now, "Whosoever that shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved" Romans 10;13.

False teaching, and teaching salvation by works, denying the efficacy of the Cross !

 

[patrick jane]

False teaching, and teaching salvation by works, denying the efficacy of the Cross !

You had free will to start this nonsense thread -

 

[beloved57]

Yes, exclusively!

But the rest are vessels of wrath Rom. 9:22!

~~~

Amen !

 

[beloved57]

We are all vessels of his mercy, "God was in Christ reconciling the world unto himself" 2 Corinthians 5:19.

Jesus has tasted death for everyone, Hebrews 2:9. You will become vessels of his wrath when you reject the doing and the dying of Jesus as the only means of your salvation, which you have done.

Lying, and teaching the inefficancy of the death of Christ to save them He died for !

 

[beloved57]

Those who teach freewill salvation, and that Christ died for all without exception, and some for whom Christ died are lost, they teach that God is Unjust, that He shall yet damn sinners for whom Christ died ! This is to make God unjust, because those for whom Christ died had no debt of sin before God and His Law !

 

[beloved57]

Freewillism teaching makes God unjust because it teaches that men and women Christ died for, paid the penalty of their sins for them, and made them dead to the Law, that God will yet curse them into everlasting fire as these goats here Matt 25:41

⁴¹ Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

This can be only because of the curse of the broken law, sin and transgression against Gods Law brings the curse, hence it is why those Christ died for, it is said that He was made a curse Gal 3:13

¹³ Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

This therefore made them He died for dead to the Law Rom 7:4

Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

Now pay close attention to this verse, How did these believers become dead to the Law according to Paul in this verse ?

Was it A. By believing B. repentance C. Body of Christ ?

What is meant here by "the body of Christ" ? It simply means His Death, by which Peter wrote 1 Pet 2:24

Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins[because dead to the law], should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

But yet the false teaching of Christ dying for all mankind, and some for whom He died go into the lake of fire, make God unjust in punishing people who were dead to the Law by the death of Christ !

 

[beloved57]

Freewillism teaching makes God unjust because it unjustly teaches that those for whom Christ died, died for their sins 1 Cor 15:3, that they shall be punished not once but twice, that they will once again bear the full penalty of their sins and guilt against Gods Law, to include the sin of unbelief; First in Christ their Surety, who was made responsible for the debt against Gods Law and Justice, He for them already being made a curse Gal 3:13

Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

Christ paying the full amount of their curse. Then a second time in themselves, they being sent out into the lake of fire, cursed like the goats Matt 25:41

Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

And this for the same sins Christ has been cursed for on their behalf, but yet it is as if Christ had not already suffered their cursed damnation. That's making God Unjust, especially to His Son who already satisfied His Law and Justice for their sins !

 

[blackbirdking]

Freewillism teaching makes God unjust because...

You start with a false premise, and consequently end with a false conclusion. Take the whole Bible, leave nothing out, take it for what it says in relation to everything else it says, compare it to the character of God as revealed by Himself to mankind, put aside all your preconceived notions, and seek God; 1 Timothy 4:10, For therefore we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those that believe.

For if Christ died for all men without exception, and yet God sent some to the second death, that would surely make Him unjust.

No it doesn't; study your whole Bible.

He would be unjust if He sent them to the second death because He created them to go, and then said they deserved to go.

I built a house and burned it to the ground; I told the insurance company the house deserved to burn. How much money do I get?

 

[beloved57]

You start with a false premise, and consequently end with a false conclusion. Take the whole Bible, leave nothing out, take it for what it says in relation to everything else it says, compare it to the character of God as revealed by Himself to mankind, put aside all your preconceived notions, and seek God; 1 Timothy 4:10, For therefore we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those that believe.



No it doesn't; study your whole Bible.

He would be unjust if He sent them to the second death because He created them to go, and then said they deserved to go.

I built a house and burned it to the ground; I told the insurance company the house deserved to burn. How much money do I get?

Evasion and Rabbit trail comments

 

[blackbirdking]

Evasion and Rabbit trail comments

It's the truth.
How much money do I get?

Meanwhile, look up 'evasion' in the dictionary, and... if the shoe fits, smell it; on the other hand, I solidly refuted your claim with scripture:

1 Timothy 4:10, For therefore we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those that believe.