How freewillism makes God Unjust !

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blackbirdking

New member
Epoisses said:
My understanding of election is based primarily on 3 bible commentaries I use for my bible study (Luther's commentary, Matthew Henry's commentary and Jamieson,Fausset,Brown commentary). Luther was of course Lutheran, Henry was Presbyterian and Jamieson,Fausset,Brown was a mixture of Presbyterian and Anglican authors. I lean more towards Luther's understanding of election.
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You believe election is determined by God; He chooses.
What does that tell us about His character? What kind of God is He?

The whole question of election is about the sovereignty of God. If you follow your presuppositions to the end, you go into hyper-Calvinism. That's one thing Luther struggled with, and he tried to avoid the end conclusion by claiming it was non of our business. He may have been right except that, if God wants to send me to hell, fine; but that tells me something about His character. He calls that good. Then He says I should treat others good; really? Love my enemies the way He does? The world sees enough of that from religion.

Your doctrine causes God to be the responsible party for all sin.

The whole definition of good is...
 
B

blackbirdking

New member
beloved57 said:
You misquoted it, then you continue to lie about it !
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Accusing me does not excuse you. If I'm wrong about 1 Timothy 4:10, so be it. Then God is like you say He is and I might be damned.

You also realize you might be wrong and are too proud to admit it. It's scary to think that your god, who created evil, is in charge of my destiny, and yours. He can't be trusted and you know it; therefore, you don't know if your god, who created evil, is playing with your mind.

You will never know that you are elect; and, if you are, you don't even know if there is a heaven. He might have lied about it; after all, he did create evil.
 
beloved57

beloved57

Well-known member
blackbirdking said:
Accusing me does not excuse you. If I'm wrong about 1 Timothy 4:10, so be it. Then God is like you say He is and I might be damned.

You also realize you might be wrong and are too proud to admit it. It's scary to think that your god, who created evil, is in charge of my destiny, and yours. He can't be trusted and you know it; therefore, you don't know if your god, who created evil, is playing with your mind.

You will never know that you are elect; and, if you are, you don't even know if there is a heaven. He might have lied about it; after all, he did create evil.
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You misquoted the scripture, and you continue to lie!

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Epoisses

Epoisses

New member
blackbirdking said:
You believe election is determined by God; He chooses.
What does that tell us about His character? What kind of God is He?

The whole question of election is about the sovereignty of God. If you follow your presuppositions to the end, you go into hyper-Calvinism. That's one thing Luther struggled with, and he tried to avoid the end conclusion by claiming it was non of our business. He may have been right except that, if God wants to send me to hell, fine; but that tells me something about His character. He calls that good. Then He says I should treat others good; really? Love my enemies the way He does? The world sees enough of that from religion.

Your doctrine causes God to be the responsible party for all sin.

The whole definition of good is...
Click to expand...

I personally believe that foreknowledge is inseparably linked with predestination. Calvinists present predestination as arbitrary but the bible presents predestination as a choice by an all-knowing God who knows the past, present and future intimately. God chooses those whom he foreknows. Peter said he was elect by the foreknowledge of God 1Pet. 1:2.
 
beloved57

beloved57

Well-known member
We declare officially God is Unjust, if one sinner for whom Christ died, having had that sinners sins imputed to Him, if for any one of those sins to be imputed back to that sinner, after Christ has completely satisfied Gods Law and Justice, and that sinner comes under the vengeance of God, then God has taken vengeance twice for the same sin or sins, once upon Christ and now against the sinner, which is contrary to Gods revealed Justice and Truth ! Gods Throne is established on Truth Ps 89:14

[FONT=&quot]Justice and judgment are the habitation of thy [/FONT]throne: mercy and truth shall go before thy face.
 
beloved57

beloved57

Well-known member
The religionist doesn't really believe that Christ died for sins, not biblically, for all for whom Christ died , namely His Sheep or Gods Elect, their sins were punished by God in Christ upon the cross. So if any for whom He died goes into punishment, it makes God an unjust tyrant for again punishing people in perdition whose sin debt has been paid by Christ, His Blood!
 
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MennoSota

New member
Epoisses said:
I personally believe that foreknowledge is inseparably linked with predestination. Calvinists present predestination as arbitrary but the bible presents predestination as a choice by an all-knowing God who knows the past, present and future intimately. God chooses those whom he foreknows. Peter said he was elect by the foreknowledge of God 1Pet. 1:2.
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Where do Calvinists present predestination as arbitrary? God chose from before the creation of the world.
Ephesians 1:4-5
4 Even before he made the world, God loved us and chose us in Christ to be holy and without fault in his eyes.5 God decided in advance to adopt us into his own family by bringing us to himself through Jesus Christ. This is what he wanted to do, and it gave him great pleasure.
 
Nanja

Nanja

Well-known member
beloved57 said:
The religionist doesn't really believe that Christ died for sins, not biblically, for all for whom Christ died , namely His Sheep or Gods Elect, their sins were punished by God in Christ upon the cross. So if any for whom He died goes into punishment, it makes God an unjust tyrant for again punishing people in perdition whose sin debt has been paid by Christ, His Blood!
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The religionist evades the Truth of scripture that Christ's Death / Blood alone saved anyone without a person's freewill contributory factor to obtain it, which is a blatant disregard for the effectual Power of the Cross of Christ to Save to the uttermost Heb. 7:25 the Children God has Chosen and predestinated In Union with Him to have forgiveness of sins Eph. 1:4-7; and that these same ones [Sheep John 10:11] were reconciled to God by Christ's Blood even while being His enemies and unbelievers.

Rom. 5:8-10

8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.


So God's Elect [Sheep] were never under God's Wrath !
 
G

Grosnick Marowbe

New member
Hall of Fame
MennoSota said:
Where do Calvinists present predestination as arbitrary? God chose from before the creation of the world.
Ephesians 1:4-5
4 Even before he made the world, God loved us and chose us in Christ to be holy and without fault in his eyes.5 God decided in advance to adopt us into his own family by bringing us to himself through Jesus Christ. This is what he wanted to do, and it gave him great pleasure.
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Of course, you misinterpret Scripture and seek to align it with your 'belief system.'
 
0

_000_

BANNED
Banned
When someone tells you
they have a free will...

Ask them to tell you
what is the cost of that free will?

or better yet
ask them to tell you one thing that they
can say or do or think that is not predetermined
by anything else.

Name anything
that you can say
think or do
that is not predetermined
by something else?

If you can do this
then you have control
over your own will
if you have one at all.
 
0

_000_

BANNED
Banned
I have even had people plagiarize
the poems that the Holy Ghost gave to me
on the Christian forums.
 
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