ECT How alone is Grace alone salvation?

How alone is Grace alone salvation?


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Shasta

Well-known member
Awe . . . that's too bad, but it is not surprising that Evil would still seek to devour his own brother even after such an admission. However what it does reveal is that the vicious attacks really have nothing to do with core principles but rather the scripture you quote and how you allow that scripture to mold your thinking. Though I do not agree with your confession, ("Jesus is YHWH"), I have enjoyed your posting and it was nice to meet you. :)

I do not think John would have embraced the Gnostics as brothers. In fact, he said "they went out from us because they were not of us." However, John's purpose in writing his letters was to correct the Gnostic's doctrines, one of which was that true believers can walk with a God who is light and walk in darkness at the same time. Yet I talk to people who do this very thing. They live in fornication or in adultery but claim that because they have prayed the sinners prayer and made a profession of faith they are eternally secure.
 

Shasta

Well-known member
Yes, but true repentance follows or is a result of true faith and by the time someone believes he is already saved. So anything that person does according to his will after he believes contributes nothing to his salvation.

I prefer to let the scriptures answer this:

10 Godly sorrow brings repentance that leads to salvation without regret, but worldly sorrow brings death

Godly sorrow (i.e., over sin) leads to repentance which, in turn leads to salvation. Of course repentance involves not only turning FROM a life of sin but then turning them TO God in faith. Repentance does not earn a person salvation like a form of "voluntary humility." It is just part of the process of being saved.

Repentance should also be a part of our lives in those times when we sin. This is also revealed by the context of Hebrews 12:16-18.

Your position that nothing we do subsequent to salvation will change our final status is totally wrong. The scriptures do not support this. To make your belief work you have to employ contorted exegesis. You also have to deal with the historic fact that no one in early Christianity believed in unconditional eternal security. That doctrine was not formulated until the 16th century.

Here is one scripture that reveals that eternal life is not only something we receive at the present time but that there is a final permanent inheritance that is received only when we meet Christ face to face. This is apparent in the teaching on the sheep and goats in Matthew 25:31-44

After the Son of Man divides the nations into two groups, He turns to one and says

‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world

When He gives the reason why they are being admitted into eternal life He does not tell them it was because at one point in their life they believed and were saved. Instead, He recounts the many things they have done throughout life. Now they evidently did not do those things in order to earn eternal life. In fact, they seemed surprised when the Lord reminded them. Their actions seem to have been unconscious expressions of their connection to the Vine. It was a relationship characterized by ongoing faith, love and obedience.

That this passage is not just about rewards received for service but about receiving eternal life itself is revealed in the last few verses:

45 Then he will answer them, saying, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.’ 46 And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.” (Matthew 25:45-46)
 

turbosixx

New member
No amount of good works contribute anything to our salvation. We are saved by grace. God gives grace to whom he chooses and I would suggest those whom he chooses are those who are pleasing to him.

Heb. 11:6 And without faith it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him.

1 Thes. 4:1 Finally, then, brothers, we ask and urge you in the Lord Jesus, that as you received from us how you ought to walk and to please God, just as you are doing, that you do so more and more. 2 For you know what instructions we gave you through the Lord Jesus. 3 For this is the will of God, your sanctification:

Why was the master not pleased with the one talent man casting him into outer darkness where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth?
 

Right Divider

Body part
No amount of good works contribute anything to our salvation. We are saved by grace. God gives grace to whom he chooses and I would suggest those whom he chooses are those who are pleasing to him.

Heb. 11:6 And without faith it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him.

1 Thes. 4:1 Finally, then, brothers, we ask and urge you in the Lord Jesus, that as you received from us how you ought to walk and to please God, just as you are doing, that you do so more and more. 2 For you know what instructions we gave you through the Lord Jesus. 3 For this is the will of God, your sanctification:

Why was the master not pleased with the one talent man casting him into outer darkness where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth?
Once AGAIN.... pleasing God only comes AFTER FAITH.
 

Evil.Eye.<(I)>

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Oh... I'm sorry...

For God so Loved a select group of people that He gave His only begotten Son... that those that don't do anything but claim election shall not perish but scorn the reprobates unto their eternal life...

Nang 3:16

I wonder why ref tagger only picks up John 3:16

You need to PM Knight to get that fixed Nagg

I woke up today and had neg rep given and the word disgusting associated with it. I want to make a point now. This is Hyper Calvinism... and I'll tell the person that neg repped me why they are wrong.

AMR and Lon have shown me that there are people that have reformed understanding, but exalt Jesus and Grace through Faith. They are approved Gospel workman and have no issues agreeing to disagree and maintaining unity.

People that are "Hyper Calvinists" live to exalt a man and his teachings. This man is not Jesus. Hyper Calvinism causes disunity and makes good gospel workman that are Calvinists... look bad! So... honestly... that is what's disgusting.

- Nuff said

I'm Sorry there are people that make good gospel workman like AMR and Lon look bad, by representing their theology horribly....
 

Evil.Eye.<(I)>

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You have never been taught Federalist Headship? Too bad . . .

Ignorance is not knowing what one does not know.

This word you use is so impersonal... Adam was a picture of the Groom that Loved his bride so much that he would rather die with her than live without her.

He is a type. I agree. But he is not the devil that brought "unbelief" upon mankind through deceit. You are blending biblical information in a way that twists Paul and all scripture.

You take the Love out of the gospel Norangutang
 

Evil.Eye.<(I)>

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EE, you sound so evil when you call her Nagg.

Is it loving thing to do to make fun of your enemy?

You don't know anything about Jesus' love, dear.

Thanks for the correction... you "appear" to be an Angel of Light. I was going to say your hat is lame and your glasses make your head look crooked, but then your words convicted me... so I'll be kind.

I have decided to call Nang Norangutang now. Thank you again for "opening my eyes"...

If Only I could walk by Site and not by Faith... like you.

# Sarcasm here and there
 
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Shasta

Well-known member
Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
Yes, but true repentance follows or is a result of true faith and by the time someone believes he is already saved. So anything that person does according to his will after he believes contributes nothing to his salvation.
The usual order in scripture is "repent and believe" not "believe and repent." In the OT the word "turn" is often used to express repentance. They were to turn FROM sin (from serving themselves) TO God (and serving Him). Your teaching makes faith in Christ an amoral proposition when, in reality, it means the opposite: a re-orienting and aligning a person's whole being with God.

In order to gain eternal life we must relinquish the life of serving sin and self. This is an abiding principle in scripture. As Jesus said:

25 Whoever loves his life (soul) will lose it, but whoever hates his life (soul) in this world will keep it for eternal life.
(John 12:25)

Your view seems to be that people receive eternal life by believing even if they continue "loving their life in the flesh." By contrast, Jesus says we must preferentially choose (i.e. "love") Him INSTEAD of ourselves. This is not a deeper life lesson meant only for mature believers. It is the first essential choice in a walk of faith. In fact, Jesus says is a necessary condition if we are to receive eternal life at all.

From this scripture we can see that whenever Jesus tells us to "believe in Him" elsewhere in this Gospel He means more than that we should believe certain doctrinal propositions about Him. He is speaking about a kind of faith that depends on Christ enough to let go of the old way of life.
 

Shasta

Well-known member
Thanks for the correction... you "appear" to be an Angel of Light. I was going to say your hat is lame and your glasses make your head look crooked, but then your words convicted me... so I'll be kind.

I have decided to call Nang Norangutang now. Thank you again for "opening my eyes"...

If Only I could walk by Site and not by Faith... like you.

# Sarcasm here and there

You are being petty and spiteful.
 

Evil.Eye.<(I)>

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This is ironic. Right after speaking of the love described in the gospel you mock and insult. Perhaps you should explain how that comports with the idea of love in the gospels.

You could be a tranvestite, heroine addicted hooker... and I would treat you with respect at assembly. You are a carnal thinker and naive to the wiles of Satan. By drawing attention to flesh, you are drawing attention Away from Jesus.

You and Nang judge by "site". I don't hate. Even my rending is out of Love. You will either sink into further deceit or understand, one day. I rend so another can sew.

We walk by faith and not by site. This is how the cross is exalted in power. You empty the cross of its power by bringing flesh back into the matter. You are accusing and being adversarial to the gospel. This is biblical. The devil condemns... Jesus forgives in totality.

As for [MENTION=13959]meshak[/MENTION]... they deny that Jesus is God and mock people for being saved. They are two people that are Jehova's Witnesses. They strive to bring disunity and make people doubt their salvation, the power of the cross and Christian unity in Jesus.

This site is read by many people. When Christians read it... even if I'm judged for my radical words... I want them to know Jesus is God and His DBR saved us upon belief in totality.

Keep on with your path... but if you cause a little one to stumble and lose any amount of faith by drawing attention back to the flesh, instead of Jesus... you will have that on your conscience.

Sincerely and with warning,

-EE

Do you uderstand what it means that we are dead in Him, but yet only alive by the Spirit (Rm. 8:9; Php. 1:19; Eph. 1:13) within us?
 

Shasta

Well-known member
No amount of good works contribute anything to our salvation. We are saved by grace. God gives grace to whom he chooses and I would suggest those whom he chooses are those who are pleasing to him.

Heb. 11:6 And without faith it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him.

1 Thes. 4:1 Finally, then, brothers, we ask and urge you in the Lord Jesus, that as you received from us how you ought to walk and to please God, just as you are doing, that you do so more and more. 2 For you know what instructions we gave you through the Lord Jesus. 3 For this is the will of God, your sanctification:

Why was the master not pleased with the one talent man casting him into outer darkness where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth?

That man had no active walk of faith. The initial deposit he received was static, inoperable and dead just as a faith that has no activity. This person is like the branch that did not continue in the Vine but withered, died and was cast into the fire in John 15.

We are not saved by performing works of the Law or by any good deed but after we believe (i.e., put our faith in) in Christ we must continue to walk by faith. This walk will produce results which is called fruit in this metaphor but was called "earned interest" in the parable you cited.

Continuing to abide in Him is necessary if we are to receive final salvation and eternal life at the Judgment. This final aspect of eternal life and salvation is affirmed in many scriptures including the one I quoted.

45 Then he will answer them, saying, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.’ 46 And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.” (Matthew 25:45-46)
 

Evil.Eye.<(I)>

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That man had no active walk of faith. The initial deposit he received was static, inoperable and dead just as a faith that has no activity. This person is like the branch that did not continue in the Vine but withered, died and was cast into the fire in John 15.

We are not saved by performing works of the Law or by any good deed but after we believe (i.e., put our faith in) in Christ we must continue to walk by faith. This walk will produce results which is called fruit in this metaphor but was called "earned interest" in the parable you cited.

Continuing to abide in Him is necessary if we are to receive final salvation and eternal life at the Judgment. This final aspect of eternal life and salvation is affirmed in many scriptures including the one I quoted.

45 Then he will answer them, saying, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.’ 46 And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.” (Matthew 25:45-46)
You could be a tranvestite, heroine addicted hooker... and I would treat you with respect at assembly. You are a carnal thinker and naive to the wiles of Satan. By drawing attention to flesh, you are drawing attention Away from Jesus.

You and Nang judge by "site". I don't hate. Even my rending is out of Love. You will either sink into further deceit or understand, one day. I rend so another can sew.

We walk by faith and not by site. This is how the cross is exalted in power. You empty the cross of its power by bringing flesh back into the matter. You are accusing and being adversarial to the gospel. This is biblical. The devil condemns... Jesus forgives in totality.

As for [MENTION=13959]meshak[/MENTION]... they deny that Jesus is God and mock people for being saved. They are two people that are Jehova's Witnesses. They strive to bring disunity and make people doubt their salvation, the power of the cross and Christian unity in Jesus.

This site is read by many people. When Christians read it... even if I'm judged for my radical words... I want them to know Jesus is God and His DBR saved us upon belief in totality.

Keep on with your path... but if you cause a little one to stumble and lose any amount of faith by drawing attention back to the flesh, instead of Jesus... you will have that on your conscience.

Sincerely and with warning,

-EE

Do you uderstand what it means that we are dead in Him, but yet only alive by the Spirit (Rm. 8:9; Php. 1:19; Eph. 1:13) within us?

Did you even read this?
 

Evil.Eye.<(I)>

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You are being petty and spiteful.

You are a bird that snatches up good seed and an agent that seeks to harden good soil. You mock the blood of Christ with every word you speak.

If blunt truth and humor offend you.. consider this... I count myself nothing that the power of Christ might rest on me and He might speak through me.
 

Evil.Eye.<(I)>

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This is ironic. Right after speaking of the love described in the gospel you mock and insult. Perhaps you should explain how that comports with the idea of love in the gospels.

You make the Bible about you and not Jesus... this is why every work/word you speak is a lie and a twisting of God's immeasurable Love, Forgiveness and Glory.

You speacialize in tying up heavy burdens... for this... I will rend your lies every chance I am blessed with and I pray others do too.

With all Christian Love and Sincerity,

Evil.Eye.<(I)>
 

Shasta

Well-known member
You could be a tranvestite, heroine addicted hooker... and I would treat you with respect at assembly. You are a carnal thinker and naive to the wiles of Satan. By drawing attention to flesh, you are drawing attention Away from Jesus.

You and Nang judge by "site". I don't hate. Even my rending is out of Love. You will either sink into further deceit or understand, one day. I rend so another can sew.

We walk by faith and not by site. This is how the cross is exalted in power. You empty the cross of its power by bringing flesh back into the matter. You are accusing and being adversarial to the gospel. This is biblical. The devil condemns... Jesus forgives in totality.

As for [MENTION=13959]meshak[/MENTION]... they deny that Jesus is God and mock people for being saved. They are two people that are Jehova's Witnesses. They strive to bring disunity and make people doubt their salvation, the power of the cross and Christian unity in Jesus.

This site is read by many people. When Christians read it... even if I'm judged for my radical words... I want them to know Jesus is God and His DBR saved us upon belief in totality.

Keep on with your path... but if you cause a little one to stumble and lose any amount of faith by drawing attention back to the flesh, instead of Jesus... you will have that on your conscience.

Sincerely and with warning,

-EE

Do you uderstand what it means that we are dead in Him, but yet only alive by the Spirit (Rm. 8:9; Php. 1:19; Eph. 1:13) within us?

1. Didn't Jesus say love your enemies, do good to those they treat you spitefully?

2. So your defense is that mocking and name calling is essential to your defense of little ones in the faith. Well, what example does that set for them?

3. Yes I understand what it means that we are dead in Him. It means we put to death the old nature that exalts itself against others. I also know that the fruit of the Spirit is:

22..love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other (Galatians 5:22-26).

4. Your accusation that I am a "carnal thinker" was based solely on my disagreement with your doctrine not on any of the scriptural points I have made in support of my views.
 

Evil.Eye.<(I)>

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1. Didn't Jesus say love your enemies, do good to those they treat you spitefully?

2. So your defense is that mocking and name calling is essential to your defense of little ones in the faith. Well, what example does that set for them?

3. Yes I understand what it means that we are dead in Him. It means we put to death the old nature that exalts itself against others. I also know that the fruit of the Spirit is:

22..love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other (Galatians 5:22-26).

He loved them so much he warned them who their daddy was. He ached that they would turn to Him.

Matthew 23:1-25 Then Jesus spoke to the multitudes and to His disciples, saying: “The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. Therefore whatever they tell you to observe, that observe and do, but do not do according to their works; for they say, and do not do. For they bind heavy burdens, hard to bear, and lay them on men’s shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers. But all their works they do to be seen by men. They make their phylacteries broad and enlarge the borders of their garments. They love the best places at feasts, the best seats in the synagogues, greetings in the marketplaces, and to be called by men, ‘Rabbi, Rabbi.’ But you, do not be called ‘Rabbi’; for One is your Teacher, the Christ, and you are all brethren. Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven. And do not be called teachers; for One is your Teacher, the Christ. But he who is greatest among you shall be your servant. And whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted. “But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you shut up the kingdom of heaven against men; for you neither go in yourselves, nor do you allow those who are entering to go in. Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you devour widows’ houses, and for a pretense make long prayers. Therefore you will receive greater condemnation. “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you travel land and sea to win one proselyte, and when he is won, you make him twice as much a son of hell as yourselves. “Woe to you, blind guides, who say, ‘Whoever swears by the temple, it is nothing; but whoever swears by the gold of the temple, he is obliged to perform it.’ Fools and blind! For which is greater, the gold or the temple that sanctifies the gold? And, ‘Whoever swears by the altar, it is nothing; but whoever swears by the gift that is on it, he is obliged to perform it.’ Fools and blind! For which is greater, the gift or the altar that sanctifies the gift? Therefore he who swears by the altar, swears by it and by all things on it. He who swears by the temple, swears by it and by Him who dwells in it. And he who swears by heaven, swears by the throne of God and by Him who sits on it. “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faith. These you ought to have done, without leaving the others undone. Blind guides, who strain out a gnat and swallow a camel! “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you cleanse the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of extortion and self-indulgence.

(John 5:39f)

You are self-righteous and your understanding is marred by Satan.
 
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