Theology Club: Hid From Them, By Them...

glorydaz

New member

I never saw that one, but I know what it feels like to be a deer in the head lights when Jerry starts demanding I answer him. Things just fly right out of my brain. I spent at least 15 minutes trying to think of what it was Jerry was wanting from the verse in John 3. That we would be with the Lord on this earth like the Jews....that the Jews had to include works to be saved or to live on this earth later. He wants something very badly. Look how he asks the same question over and over again and no answer is good enough. That's kinda creepy.
 

glorydaz

New member
You can go all the way back to the beginning.

Adam was naked both before and after he ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
But he wasn't ashamed of it until he knew good and evil.
There was no need to cover him before.

One could consider that avoiding the tree of knowledge of good and evil was the first law.
When there was no law, Adam needn't be covered, because where there is no law, sin is not imputed.

Romans 5 KJV
(13) (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.​


Just a thought.

It's nice not to have to worry about sin. Sin becomes an obsession for some people....especially the "sins" others must be committing.
 
I never saw that one, but I know what it feels like to be a deer in the head lights when Jerry starts demanding I answer him. Things just fly right out of my brain. I spent at least 15 minutes trying to think of what it was Jerry was wanting from the verse in John 3. That we would be with the Lord on this earth like the Jews....that the Jews had to include works to be saved or to live on this earth later. He wants something very badly. Look how he asks the same question over and over again and no answer is good enough. That's kinda creepy.

i know what he wants and i tend to agree -
 

Jerry Shugart

New member
Poor Jerry. :nono:

1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; ...

Galatians 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

I take that you are answering "no" to the following question:

Have you sinned since you became saved?

Do you think that it is impossible for Christians to sin?

I never saw that one, but I know what it feels like to be a deer in the head lights when Jerry starts demanding I answer him. Things just fly right out of my brain. I spent at least 15 minutes trying to think of what it was Jerry was wanting from the verse in John 3.

All you have to do is to give your interpretation of the meaning of John 3:16.

I spent at least 15 minutes trying to think of what it was Jerry was wanting from the verse in John 3. That we would be with the Lord on this earth like the Jews....that the Jews had to include works to be saved or to live on this earth later. He wants something very badly. Look how he asks the same question over and over again and no answer is good enough. That's kinda creepy.

I just want your opinion on the meaning of those words at John 3:16. What is creepy about that?

Are you ready now to give your interpretation of the meaning of that verse? If not, just say "no." I don't want you to feel pressured.
 

Jerry Shugart

New member
i know what he wants and i tend to agree -

What do you think that I want, Patrick?

true, focusing on sins leads to bitterness, comparing, judging and more sin -

Don't you think that when we do sin we should acknowledge that sin and judge ourselves?:

"For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world" (1 Cor.11:31-32).​
 

glorydaz

New member
I take that you are answering "no" to the following question:

Have you sinned since you became saved?

Do you think that it is impossible for Christians to sin?

I think it is impossible for those who are no longer under the law to be judged as sinners under the law. Shall we see how many ways I can say it before you believe me?



All you have to do is to give your interpretation of the meaning of John 3:16.



I just want your opinion on the meaning of those words at John 3:16. What is creepy about that?

Are you ready now to give your interpretation of the meaning of that verse? If not, just say "no." I don't want you to feel pressured.

But I do feel pressured, Jerry. It's why I said I didn't know. I've read your other posts....where you've argued with Heir and STP and Danoh. I didn't understand you then, and I don't understand you now. You are looking for something very specific in regards to the Jews, are you not? Will it be some kind of benefit to you to get me to say what those who are more knowledgeable than I am won't? Will your very next question be where will members of the body be spending their time in the afterlife? I'm thinking it will...which is why I think this is a trick question.
 

glorydaz

New member
What do you think that I want, Patrick?



Don't you think that when we do sin we should acknowledge that sin and judge ourselves?:

"For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world" (1 Cor.11:31-32).​

Do you consider your faults or weaknesses to be sins?

If so, you must be reading that verse to say we must confess our sins in order to be forgiven. Is that the case?


Do you think judging is always tied to sinning? What about discernment? Seems like sin must be forgiven and chastening doesn't quite cut it in that instance. Way too Catholic for my taste. I'm curious why you would offer those verses....
 

Jerry Shugart

New member
Do you consider your faults or weaknesses to be sins?

If so, you must be reading that verse to say we must confess our sins in order to be forgiven. Is that the case?

To judge ourselves is an acknowledgement or self-confess any sin which we might commit after we are saved. This confession is not in regard to salvation but instead in regard to 'fellowship."

Any sin which we commit in our walk breaks our fellowship with the Lord:

"But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear" (Isa.59:2).​

Again, this is just in regard to our walk. Here is how one has his sins forgiven in regard to salvation:

"To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins" (Acts 10:43).​

Therefore, the following is only for those already saved and not for the unsaved.

"If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness" (1 Jn.1:9).​

You would never tell an unbeliever that if they will just confess their sins then those sins will be forgiven:

In order for an unbeliever to have his sins forgiven he must believe the gospel. So, again, there words are addressed to those who are already saved.
 

Danoh

New member
Glorydaz, the following are some videos "critical to a sound understanding of who God has made you in His Son" - and why you cannot break fellowship with Him!

Enjoy, sis - you're in for a real feast of blessing!

The Grace Life

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=018l90DJ6rI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ySqrnsbNoV0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qgdNNHAWvYo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DU34V842HT4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_J3hHFrKNM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wm3azAt5h34

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPq5zYsap9o
 

glorydaz

New member
Glorydaz, the following are some videos "critical to a sound understanding of who God has made you in His Son" - and why you cannot break fellowship with Him!

Enjoy, sis - you're in for a real feast of blessing!

The Grace Life

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=018l90DJ6rI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ySqrnsbNoV0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qgdNNHAWvYo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DU34V842HT4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_J3hHFrKNM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wm3azAt5h34

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPq5zYsap9o

Ah, I only watched the first one and I absolutely agree with everything he said. In fact, it's very rare to see someone get Romans 7 right. The fact that people don't understand that believers do not sin and cannot sin is because they mis-read what Paul says in that chapter. Sin can only be partnered with the law...where the law is in effect.

I always liken it to having moved off the street into the "big house". When we lived on the streets, we lived in darkness under the rule of satan and were subject to the condemnation of the law. Then we are accepted in the Beloved, changed our place of residence, and are now sons. No longer criminals but sons. Chastened not condemned. Saints not sinners.

Thanks for sharing those tapes, I'll have to watch some more of them later. I was so pleased to see Romans chapter seven being preached on correctly. :thumb:
 

glorydaz

New member
To judge ourselves is an acknowledgement or self-confess any sin which we might commit after we are saved. This confession is not in regard to salvation but instead in regard to 'fellowship."

Any sin which we commit in our walk breaks our fellowship with the Lord:

"But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear" (Isa.59:2).​

Again, this is just in regard to our walk. Here is how one has his sins forgiven in regard to salvation:

"To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins" (Acts 10:43).​

Therefore, the following is only for those already saved and not for the unsaved.

"If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness" (1 Jn.1:9).​

You would never tell an unbeliever that if they will just confess their sins then those sins will be forgiven:

In order for an unbeliever to have his sins forgiven he must believe the gospel. So, again, there words are addressed to those who are already saved.

This post reminds me of our disagreement over 1 John 1. That chapter deals with when we first come into the light. We cannot deny we are sinners in need of salvation, because if we did, it would be impossible to believe the Gospel in the first place.

Sin belongs on the other side of the cross, Jerry. Don't bring it over to this side.
 

Jerry Shugart

New member
This post reminds me of our disagreement over 1 John 1. That chapter deals with when we first come into the light. We cannot deny we are sinners in need of salvation, because if we did, it would be impossible to believe the Gospel in the first place.

Sin belongs on the other side of the cross, Jerry. Don't bring it over to this side.

If I was in error with what I said about confessing our sins then why did you not tell me where I am wrong? Where is your proof?

And if I remember right you said that 1 John 1:9 is addressed to unbelievers. Is that what you tell unbelievers? If they will confess their sins then those sins will be forgiven and they will be cleansed from unrighteousness?

If that is what you tell them then your preaching is in vain because it is impossible that if an unbeliever confesses his sins that his sins will be forgiven.
 

glorydaz

New member
If I was in error with what I said about confessing our sins then why did you not tell me where I am wrong? Where is your proof?

And if I remember right you said that 1 John 1:9 is addressed to unbelievers. Is that what you tell unbelievers? If they will confess their sins then those sins will be forgiven and they will be cleansed from unrighteousness?

If that is what you tell them then your preaching is in vain because it is impossible that if an unbeliever confesses his sins that his sins will be forgiven.

Nice try ignoring the LIGHT John speaks of in that chapter. You've missed the entire point if you miss that.
 

glorydaz

New member
What is your point about the "LIGHT"?

Please don't feel pressured to answer my question.

Ah, I knew you had a sweet side, Jerry. Thank you for your patience.


My point about the light is the same as John's. (And knowing who the audience is makes all the difference.) It's why he stresses the LIGHT in that first chapter of his book and his letter.

John 1:7-9 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe. He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.​

1 John 1:5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

God is Light and Jesus is the true Light. John is addressing a mixed group there....not all believers as you have said in the past. There are those who claim Jesus did not come in the flesh and those who claimed they had no sin because they had not "seen the LIGHT". None of those are believers yet. They are in darkness still. So when you quote verses from that chapter, you must keep that in mind or you end up trying to make them say what they were not intended to say.

Those who deny Jesus is God in the flesh are still in darkness. Those who claim they have no sin have not yet had the LIGHT show them their sin. They might even think their dead works and various washings take care of any sin. This has nothing to do with "fellowship" per se.
 
If I was in error with what I said about confessing our sins then why did you not tell me where I am wrong? Where is your proof?

And if I remember right you said that 1 John 1:9 is addressed to unbelievers. Is that what you tell unbelievers? If they will confess their sins then those sins will be forgiven and they will be cleansed from unrighteousness?

If that is what you tell them then your preaching is in vain because it is impossible that if an unbeliever confesses his sins that his sins will be forgiven.



an unbeliever wouldn't confess their sins -
do you confess your sins ? to another sinner ?
God already knows -
 
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