Theology Club: Hid From Them, By Them...

Jerry Shugart

New member
I said his testimony was faultless; not his teaching.

Oh, so his teaching was not his testimony! LOL!

The word "testify" means "to make a statement based on personal knowledge or belief" (Merriam- Webster's Collegiate Dictionary).

That is exactly what O'Hair did when he taught about what is said in the Scriptures.

But you said that his testimony was faultless but not his teaching.

He was still off on various issues because he was still figuring out how to tell when his hermeneutic was off.

His teaching or testimony was correct when he said that the Twelve were in the Body of Christ. Here we can see that both Jews and Gentiles are baptized into the Body of Christ:

"For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit" (1 Cor.12:13).​

In this passage Paul uses the pronoun "we" twice and from his introduction in that same epistle we can know that that pronoun is not only referring to those in the church at Corinth but also "all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord":

"Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's" (1 Cor.1:2).​

All of the Jewish believers living in the first century did indeed call on the name of Jesus Christ so therefore all of them belonged to the Body of Christ. Cornelius Stam, the founder of the Berean Bible Society, wrote the following commentary on 1 Corinthians 1:2:

"There are other evidences that the kingdom saints of Paul's day became members of the Body of Christ. In I Corinthians 1:2, Paul addresses his letter to the Corinthian church, 'with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs [those in every place] and ours [those with Paul].' And he says to 'all' these believers 'in every place': 'For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one Body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles' (I Cor. 12:13). How can this be made to exclude the Judean believers?" (Cornelius Stam, Commentary on Galatians [Stevens Point, WI: Worzalla Publishing Co., 1998], 198).​

I have been waiting patiently for one of you Neo-MADs to address this but so far I have waited in vain. Now would be a good time to address this since we are now discussing this subject, especially what O'Hair said here:

"Peter and James and ten other apostles are going to sit on twelve thrones and judge the twelve tribes of Israel. (Matthew 19:27 and 28). But I do not agree with Christians who say that the twelve apostles were not members of the Body of Christ...I make no such foolish statement...that these Epistles of Peter and James are not for this age...I use 1 Peter 3:18 in preaching the gospel of grace as frequently as I use any other verse" [emphasis mine] (O'Hair, The Accuser of the Brethren and the Brethren Concerning Bullingerism).​

For example, contrary to Gal. 2:7-9, he had held that the Gospel of John was for us.

He also still believed in the Spirit's leading outside of His Word.

Out of respect for Mr. O'Hair the least you could do is to quote his own words.
 

Danoh

New member
Oh, so his teaching was not his testimony! LOL!

The word "testify" means "to make a statement based on personal knowledge or belief" (Merriam- Webster's Collegiate Dictionary).

That is exactly what O'Hair did when he taught about what is said in the Scriptures.

But you said that his testimony was faultless but not his teaching.



His teaching or testimony was correct when he said that the Twelve were in the Body of Christ. Here we can see that both Jews and Gentiles are baptized into the Body of Christ:

"For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit" (1 Cor.12:13).​

In this passage Paul uses the pronoun "we" twice and from his introduction in that same epistle we can know that that pronoun is not only referring to those in the church at Corinth but also "all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord":

"Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's" (1 Cor.1:2).​

All of the Jewish believers living in the first century did indeed call on the name of Jesus Christ so therefore all of them belonged to the Body of Christ. Cornelius Stam, the founder of the Berean Bible Society, wrote the following commentary on 1 Corinthians 1:2:

"There are other evidences that the kingdom saints of Paul's day became members of the Body of Christ. In I Corinthians 1:2, Paul addresses his letter to the Corinthian church, 'with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs [those in every place] and ours [those with Paul].' And he says to 'all' these believers 'in every place': 'For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one Body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles' (I Cor. 12:13). How can this be made to exclude the Judean believers?" (Cornelius Stam, Commentary on Galatians [Stevens Point, WI: Worzalla Publishing Co., 1998], 198).​

I have been waiting patiently for one of you Neo-MADs to address this but so far I have waited in vain. Now would be a good time to address this since we are now discussing this subject, especially what O'Hair said here:

"Peter and James and ten other apostles are going to sit on twelve thrones and judge the twelve tribes of Israel. (Matthew 19:27 and 28). But I do not agree with Christians who say that the twelve apostles were not members of the Body of Christ...I make no such foolish statement...that these Epistles of Peter and James are not for this age...I use 1 Peter 3:18 in preaching the gospel of grace as frequently as I use any other verse" [emphasis mine] (O'Hair, The Accuser of the Brethren and the Brethren Concerning Bullingerism).​



Out of respect for Mr. O'Hair the least you could do is to quote his own words.

Lol, you legalist, you - reach for the convenience of the word choice of a dictionary :)

Words derive their sense from how they are used, and in the setting in which they are.

Outside of that, words actually have no meaning.

Try having someone from another culture and language making sense out of any of these sentences.

What did "drop a dime mean" when phone calls were ten cents.

What did it mean when "acid trips" became popular within certain sub-cultures.

Out of respect for Mr. O'Hair, the least you could is not make your needing to prove you are right the issue. You are way more Ironside in this - O'Hair's enemy - than even O'Hair's shadow.

With me, you will get nowhere with your "prove me right" notion.

Get over yourself, brother; the issue is the Cross.
 

Jerry Shugart

New member
It certainly doesn't mean that the devils who believe have everlasting life....does it?'

What is your point about the devils? Are asserting that the Jews who believed do not have everlasting life?:

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life" (Jn.3:16).​

All I see from you is an effort to somehow undermine the plain words of John 3:16.

That's your problem, Jerry. You are so hard headed that you can't see the forest for the trees.

You see neither since you are blind to the truth of what is said at John 3:16.

The verse you keep citing is very straight forward, but belief is one thing to the Jews who needed to believe that Jesus was the Son of God...

Yes, and when they believed that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, they received everlasting life and the promise that they will never perish.

Therefore, the content of what they believed for salvation was different from the content of what the Gentiles believed for salvation. But aside from that they were saved just like we are--by grace through faith:

"Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all" (Ro.4:16).​

And if the Jews could not be saved apart from works, then it cannot be said that their salvation was of grace:

"Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt" (Ro.4:4).​
 

Danoh

New member
Never mind that John 3:16 is three years or so before the Cross, and that the Lord had expected Nicodemas to know what all He was talking about
 

Jerry Shugart

New member
Lol, you legalist, you - reach for the convenience of the word choice of a dictionary :)

All I can see of you, brother, is the fact that you are good at name calling. You certainly did not even attempt to address what I said here:

Here we can see that both Jews and Gentiles are baptized into the Body of Christ:

"For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit" (1 Cor.12:13).​

In this passage Paul uses the pronoun "we" twice and from his introduction in that same epistle we can know that that pronoun is not only referring to those in the church at Corinth but also "all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord":

"Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's" (1 Cor.1:2).​

All of the Jewish believers living in the first century did indeed call on the name of Jesus Christ so therefore all of them belonged to the Body of Christ. Cornelius Stam, the founder of the Berean Bible Society, wrote the following commentary on 1 Corinthians 1:2:

"There are other evidences that the kingdom saints of Paul's day became members of the Body of Christ. In I Corinthians 1:2, Paul addresses his letter to the Corinthian church, 'with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs [those in every place] and ours [those with Paul].' And he says to 'all' these believers 'in every place': 'For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one Body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles' (I Cor. 12:13). How can this be made to exclude the Judean believers?" (Cornelius Stam, Commentary on Galatians [Stevens Point, WI: Worzalla Publishing Co., 1998], 198).​

I have been waiting patiently for one of you Neo-MADs to address this but once again I am disappointed that you did not even attempt to address it.
 

Danoh

New member
Jerry, whenever you are supported in an issue, you right off toot your "Exactly!" horn.

I can't stand that.

When not supported, you bait and all the rest - repeatedly.

I can't stand that even more.

I'll get around to dealing with the Twelve in/out issue when I happen to be dealing with such issues - I will not give you the shameful satisfaction of making such non-issues the issue; that you might get your sought after glory in the flesh of another.
 

Jerry Shugart

New member
I'll get around to dealing with the Twelve in/out issue when I happen to be dealing with such issues - I will not give you the shameful satisfaction of making such non-issues the issue; that you might get your sought after glory in the flesh of another.

I could care less about seeking out glory in the flesh of another. I think that you attack me personally in the hope that no one will notice that you are unable to answer my points.

Once again you do not even attempt to answer this:

Here we can see that both Jews and Gentiles are baptized into the Body of Christ:

"For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit" (1 Cor.12:13).​

In this passage Paul uses the pronoun "we" twice and from his introduction in that same epistle we can know that that pronoun is not only referring to those in the church at Corinth but also "all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord":

"Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's" (1 Cor.1:2).​

All of the Jewish believers living in the first century did indeed call on the name of Jesus Christ so therefore all of them belonged to the Body of Christ. Cornelius Stam, the founder of the Berean Bible Society, wrote the following commentary on 1 Corinthians 1:2:

"There are other evidences that the kingdom saints of Paul's day became members of the Body of Christ. In I Corinthians 1:2, Paul addresses his letter to the Corinthian church, 'with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs [those in every place] and ours [those with Paul].' And he says to 'all' these believers 'in every place': 'For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one Body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles' (I Cor. 12:13). How can this be made to exclude the Judean believers?" (Cornelius Stam, Commentary on Galatians [Stevens Point, WI: Worzalla Publishing Co., 1998], 198).​

You have never given any evidence from the Bible that supports the idea that only some Jews were baptized into the Body of Christ while other Jewish believers were not. We are supposed to believe that despite the evidence which I have provided from the Scriptures which proves you are wrong.

Then to make it worse you refuse to defend your position and actually address the verses which I quoted.
 

Danoh

New member
I could care less about seeking out glory in the flesh of another. I think that you attack me personally in the hope that no one will notice that you are unable to answer my points.

Once again you do not even attempt to answer this:

Here we can see that both Jews and Gentiles are baptized into the Body of Christ:

"For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit" (1 Cor.12:13).​

In this passage Paul uses the pronoun "we" twice and from his introduction in that same epistle we can know that that pronoun is not only referring to those in the church at Corinth but also "all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord":

"Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's" (1 Cor.1:2).​

All of the Jewish believers living in the first century did indeed call on the name of Jesus Christ so therefore all of them belonged to the Body of Christ. Cornelius Stam, the founder of the Berean Bible Society, wrote the following commentary on 1 Corinthians 1:2:

"There are other evidences that the kingdom saints of Paul's day became members of the Body of Christ. In I Corinthians 1:2, Paul addresses his letter to the Corinthian church, 'with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs [those in every place] and ours [those with Paul].' And he says to 'all' these believers 'in every place': 'For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one Body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles' (I Cor. 12:13). How can this be made to exclude the Judean believers?" (Cornelius Stam, Commentary on Galatians [Stevens Point, WI: Worzalla Publishing Co., 1998], 198).​

You have never given any evidence from the Bible that supports the idea that only some Jews were baptized into the Body of Christ while other Jewish believers were not. We are supposed to believe that despite the evidence which I have provided from the Scriptures which proves you are wrong.

Then to make it worse you refuse to defend your position and actually address the verses which I quoted.


Let it go; fool.
 

Danoh

New member
So I am a fool because I want to actually discuss what the Scriptures are saying? Again, you must think that if you continue to call me names no one will notice that you have no answer to what I say.

You do not want to discuss anything; you want to prove you are right.

You have been baiting others with this 12 in/out question and other such questions for years. You are just after proselytes to your view.

You took offense on that other site when G reminded you; in your dissimulation against another's having quoted external writers, that you do the same.

Fact is that practically your every post is the words and labors of others, and those; often outdated, and off-base; a proselyte of notions attempting to proselytize others into same.

It is why you are stuck in your view - you don't really know how to study these issues out, let alone; afresh, other than reaching for old old books, and that; as your decider of who will get an F on their report card.

Give me a break - your sham is as old as the Pharisees calling out John the Baptist and the Lord to dance to their tune when, in reality; their fool minds were already made up against them.

I will no longer support any of your views even those I might agree with - you are out to bully others into your corner and I will not be party to it.

Now, please don't play the obvious fool once more and turn that last statement into more of your same old "you mean you agree with me about..."

Shame on you - you are "to be blamed."
 

Jerry Shugart

New member
You do not want to discuss anything; you want to prove you are right.

You do your best to try to undermine my credibility because I prove that your silly ideas are in error.

There are others reading this thread I am only interested in those people seeing the truth. My motive is not proving that Iam right but instead defending the word of God.

Shame on you - you are "to be blamed."

What are you doing on this thread? It is obvious that you have no interest in discussing the Scriptures. All you do is to run and hide from them.
 

Danoh

New member
You do your best to try to undermine my credibility because I prove that your silly ideas are in error.

There are others reading this thread I am only interested in those people seeing the truth. My motive is not proving that Iam right but instead defending the word of God.



What are you doing on this thread? It is obvious that you have no interest in discussing the Scriptures. All you do is to run and hide from them.

If you say so.
 

glorydaz

New member
Thanks, for your input, Jerry.

I was hoping to explore this with others in Mid-Acts, whether or not we see it the same.

I'm wondering, where exactly are you rightly dividing the word of truth, Jerry, that you have the Little Flock becoming members of the Body of Christ.

In your understanding; is there no earthly purpose prior to the dispensation of the fulness of times?

I take it your view is that the Body returns to the Earth?

That you do not see the Body as intended for positions of authority in the heavenlies- would that be your view?

By the way, in my own understanding, all aspects of the Mystery have to do with two issues:

A redemption also accomplished at the Cross - but - unto a New Creature - this side - of Israel's fall and the salvation of Paul;

The reconciling of the Heavenlies that the Lord's resurrection and ascension also made possible.

Thanks, brother.

You do your best to try to undermine my credibility because I prove that your silly ideas are in error.

There are others reading this thread I am only interested in those people seeing the truth. My motive is not proving that Iam right but instead defending the word of God.



What are you doing on this thread? It is obvious that you have no interest in discussing the Scriptures. All you do is to run and hide from them.

What is he doing on this thread? :doh:


He started this thread and stated his purpose. But, no, God forbid anyone would dare try and carry on any kind of a conversation while Jerry is in the house. Jerry, you're way too full of yourself, and you're nothing but a bully.
 

Jerry Shugart

New member
Jerry, you're way too full of yourself, and you're nothing but a bully.

Did you all in the Neo-MAD camp lose your Bibles?

All you seem interested in is an assassination of my character. You do not want to discuss what is taught in the Scriptures. Perhaps you will give this a go:

Here we can see that both Jews and Gentiles are baptized into the Body of Christ:

"For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit" (1 Cor.12:13).​

In this passage Paul uses the pronoun "we" twice and from his introduction in that same epistle we can know that that pronoun is not only referring to those in the church at Corinth but also "all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord":

"Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's" (1 Cor.1:2).​

All of the Jewish believers living in the first century did indeed call on the name of Jesus Christ so therefore all of them belonged to the Body of Christ. Cornelius Stam, the founder of the Berean Bible Society, wrote the following commentary on 1 Corinthians 1:2:

"There are other evidences that the kingdom saints of Paul's day became members of the Body of Christ. In I Corinthians 1:2, Paul addresses his letter to the Corinthian church, 'with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs [those in every place] and ours [those with Paul].' And he says to 'all' these believers 'in every place': 'For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one Body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles' (I Cor. 12:13). How can this be made to exclude the Judean believers?" (Cornelius Stam, Commentary on Galatians [Stevens Point, WI: Worzalla Publishing Co., 1998], 198).​

Pastor Stam asks, "How can this be made to exclude the Judean believers?"

You believe that the Twelve are not in the Body of Christ so I challenge you to answer Pastor Stam's question.

Show us that you are capable of doing more than just calling people ugly names.
 

glorydaz

New member
Did you all in the Neo-MAD camp lose your Bibles?

All you seem interested in is an assassination of my character. You do not want to discuss what is taught in the Scriptures. Perhaps you will give this a go:

Here we can see that both Jews and Gentiles are baptized into the Body of Christ:

"For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit" (1 Cor.12:13).​

In this passage Paul uses the pronoun "we" twice and from his introduction in that same epistle we can know that that pronoun is not only referring to those in the church at Corinth but also "all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord":

"Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's" (1 Cor.1:2).​

All of the Jewish believers living in the first century did indeed call on the name of Jesus Christ so therefore all of them belonged to the Body of Christ. Cornelius Stam, the founder of the Berean Bible Society, wrote the following commentary on 1 Corinthians 1:2:

"There are other evidences that the kingdom saints of Paul's day became members of the Body of Christ. In I Corinthians 1:2, Paul addresses his letter to the Corinthian church, 'with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs [those in every place] and ours [those with Paul].' And he says to 'all' these believers 'in every place': 'For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one Body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles' (I Cor. 12:13). How can this be made to exclude the Judean believers?" (Cornelius Stam, Commentary on Galatians [Stevens Point, WI: Worzalla Publishing Co., 1998], 198).​

Pastor Stam asks, "How can this be made to exclude the Judean believers?"

You believe that the Twelve are not in the Body of Christ so I challenge you to answer Pastor Stam's question.

Show us that you are capable of doing more than just calling people ugly names.

Bully is an ugly name? If the shoe fits wear it.


And stop telling me what I believe. That's the very reason you've earned the name "bully".
 

patrick jane

BANNED
Banned
Did you all in the Neo-MAD camp lose your Bibles?

All you seem interested in is an assassination of my character. You do not want to discuss what is taught in the Scriptures. Perhaps you will give this a go:

Here we can see that both Jews and Gentiles are baptized into the Body of Christ:

"For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit" (1 Cor.12:13).​

In this passage Paul uses the pronoun "we" twice and from his introduction in that same epistle we can know that that pronoun is not only referring to those in the church at Corinth but also "all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord":

"Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's" (1 Cor.1:2).​

All of the Jewish believers living in the first century did indeed call on the name of Jesus Christ so therefore all of them belonged to the Body of Christ. Cornelius Stam, the founder of the Berean Bible Society, wrote the following commentary on 1 Corinthians 1:2:

"There are other evidences that the kingdom saints of Paul's day became members of the Body of Christ. In I Corinthians 1:2, Paul addresses his letter to the Corinthian church, 'with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs [those in every place] and ours [those with Paul].' And he says to 'all' these believers 'in every place': 'For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one Body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles' (I Cor. 12:13). How can this be made to exclude the Judean believers?" (Cornelius Stam, Commentary on Galatians [Stevens Point, WI: Worzalla Publishing Co., 1998], 198).​

Pastor Stam asks, "How can this be made to exclude the Judean believers?"

You believe that the Twelve are not in the Body of Christ so I challenge you to answer Pastor Stam's question.

Show us that you are capable of doing more than just calling people ugly names.

who excludes Jews that believed Jesus Is Messiah/Christ, Lord And Savior, Son of God; before the Cross ? -
 

Danoh

New member
Bully is an ugly name? If the shoe fits wear it.


And stop telling me what I believe. That's the very reason you've earned the name "bully".

Well, he is right, ya know - if ya wanna call three verses and his reading Stam into them "right."

As many of Stam's own people no longer hold to some his views; some years ago, a guy from Stam's own camp dusted Jerry on this with verse after verse after verse. Jerry's best? One or two quotes from I forget who... followed by his never being heard from again.

I recall thinking that guy hadn't even scratched the surface where all the passages concerened applied.

But Jerry's never was exploring, sharing and or learning. His is the same recurrent pattern this very day.

Lol, what a character.
 

glorydaz

New member
Well, he is right, ya know - if ya wanna call three verses and his reading Stam into them "right."

As many of Stam's own people no longer hold to some his views; some years ago, a guy from Stam's own camp dusted Jerry on this with verse after verse after verse. Jerry's best? One or two quotes from I forget who... followed by his never being heard from again.

I recall thinking that guy hadn't even scratched the surface where all the passages concerened applied.

But Jerry's never was exploring, sharing and or learning. His is the same recurrent pattern this very day.

Lol, what a character.

Ah, well priors are hard to ignore as they say in all those cop shows. ;)


(I really should add that I have read some posts of Jerry's that were really good....well thought out and spot on.)
 
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