Theology Club: Hid From Them, By Them...

glorydaz

New member
Just wondering about you, sinless one.

Were you not sinning when you said all of those nasty things about Danoh?

No reason to be jealous, Jerry. Didn't I just recently give you a nod on one of your posts (pos rep)?

And who are you to accuse me of sin? Attempting to put me under the law when I have been freed from it? Shame on you. All things are lawful though not all may edify.

btw.....I didn't say any nasty things about Danoh. That was a joke, and if I had it might be considered a fault by some. Did you know you have faults, Jerry? :chuckle:
 
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patrick jane

BANNED
Banned
No reason to be jealous, Jerry. Didn't I just recently give you a nod on one of your posts (pos rep)?

And who are you to accuse me of sin? Attempting to put me under the law when I have been freed from it? Shame on you. All things are lawful though not all may not edify.

btw.....I didn't say any nasty things about Danoh. That was a joke, and if I had it might be considered a fault by some. Did you know you have faults, Jerry? :chuckle:

:chuckle:
 

Jerry Shugart

New member
btw.....I didn't say any nasty things about Danoh. That was a joke, and if I had it might be considered a fault by some. Did you know you have faults, Jerry? :chuckle:

Unfortunately, I have so many faults that I can't keep up with them all. However, my wife does her best to help me remember them all.

While I have your attention I would appreciate your opinion on the following:

The Lord Jesus' words to the Jews who lived under the law indicate that they were saved by faith alone:

"Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life" (Jn.5:24).​

In this verse the Greek word translated "believes" and the Greek word translated "has" are both in the "present" tense.

In The Blue Letter Bible we read the following meaning of the present tense:

"The present tense represents a simple statement of fact or reality viewed as occurring in actual time. In most cases this corresponds directly with the English present tense."

Therefore, John 5:24 is saying that those who were believing at the time the Lord Jesus spoke those words had already received eternal life.

Do you agree with that?
 

Jerry Shugart

New member
While your attention is present - what did you mean by the above; I find both its statements curious... thanks.

Are you not aware that gloydaz says that the Bible teaches that the saved cannot sin? She also says that since she was saved years ago that she has not sinned since then.

That is why I asked her if she sinned when she said nasty things to you. In reply, she said that she was just joking!
 

Danoh

New member
Are you not aware that gloydaz says that the Bible teaches that the saved cannot sin? She also says that since she was saved years ago that she has not sinned since then.

That is why I asked her if she sinned when she said nasty things to you. In reply, she said that she was just joking!

But for one remark of hers; I took all the rest as her ribbing me.

The one exception, I took as her differing with what she understood I was saying in contrast to how she understood that particular issue.

At which point, I smiled, thinking, "okay, she's off there" lol

As for the other; if she was referring to the inward man; I'd have to agree with her - God's new creature in His Son is incapable of sin.

These issues all boil down to three issues - the Mystery distinction; its life that now is; and towards its impact not only on the Mystery's ultimate purpose, but given what said ultimate purpose.

Grace people tend to over focus on the first, far too less on the second, when we do; the third barely emphasized much at all.

In a sense, odd, in that the mind tends to go from some kind of end result in mind, to its particulars; that from them it might moved forward toward said end result; said end result; its mark to press toward.

This impacts our understanding, and thus, our respective differences in understanding as to the first issue.

But that is another thread.
 

Jerry Shugart

New member
As for the other; if she was referring to the inward man; I'd have to agree with her - God's new creature in His Son is incapable of sin.

She was referring to the outward man. According to her she has not sinned since she was saved years ago.

Just ask her.
 

glorydaz

New member
She was referring to the outward man. According to her she has not sinned since she was saved years ago.

Just ask her.

Cool, I'm being talked about. I thought my ears were burning. :chuckle:

No, Jerry. Sin is not imputed to the believer. You may forget where you are, or you may not know, or you may not be there at all....I wouldn't claim to say, but I am IN CHRIST and seated with Him in heavenly places. I am hid with Christ in God. All things are lawful for me because I am not under the Law.

To put it in layman's terms, I have moved into the big house...I'm no longer a person of the streets.


Now, if you want to discuss faults, I have plenty. What is wonderful about the liberty we have in Christ Jesus is that satan (and others who seek to accuse) have no grounds for their accusations. Guilt trips are for those who doubt our Lord's work on the cross.
 

glorydaz

New member
Unfortunately, I have so many faults that I can't keep up with them all. However, my wife does her best to help me remember them all.

While I have your attention I would appreciate your opinion on the following:

The Lord Jesus' words to the Jews who lived under the law indicate that they were saved by faith alone:

"Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life" (Jn.5:24).​

In this verse the Greek word translated "believes" and the Greek word translated "has" are both in the "present" tense.

In The Blue Letter Bible we read the following meaning of the present tense:

"The present tense represents a simple statement of fact or reality viewed as occurring in actual time. In most cases this corresponds directly with the English present tense."

Therefore, John 5:24 is saying that those who were believing at the time the Lord Jesus spoke those words had already received eternal life.

Do you agree with that?

I won't argue with scripture, but I'm thinking you're forgetting what comes later in that chapter.

John 5:28-29
Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

I see a lot of things that are different before the Lord went to the cross. What I don't see in the verse you quote is belief in the death, burial, and resurrection. Why is that?
 

glorydaz

New member
Are you not aware that gloydaz says that the Bible teaches that the saved cannot sin? She also says that since she was saved years ago that she has not sinned since then.

That is why I asked her if she sinned when she said nasty things to you. In reply, she said that she was just joking!

I was joking about saying nasty things to Danoh. It wasn't nasty to give my opinion of God's UNtruth, which is what I was talking to him about in the first place. Sometimes, Jerry, you remind me of someone who only sees what he wants to see. Hmm....who might that be?
 

Jerry Shugart

New member
Cool, I'm being talked about. I thought my ears were burning. :chuckle:

No, Jerry. Sin is not imputed to the believer. You may forget where you are, or you may not know, or you may not be there at all....I wouldn't claim to say, but I am IN CHRIST and seated with Him in heavenly places. I am hid with Christ in God. All things are lawful for me because I am not under the Law.

To put it in layman's terms, I have moved into the big house...I'm no longer a person of the streets.

Now, if you want to discuss faults, I have plenty. What is wonderful about the liberty we have in Christ Jesus is that satan (and others who seek to accuse) have no grounds for their accusations. Guilt trips are for those who doubt our Lord's work on the cross.

I am not talking about whether sin is imputed to you.

Instead, are you saying that you have sinned since you were saved?
 

patrick jane

BANNED
Banned
But for one remark of hers; I took all the rest as her ribbing me.

The one exception, I took as her differing with what she understood I was saying in contrast to how she understood that particular issue.

At which point, I smiled, thinking, "okay, she's off there" lol

As for the other; if she was referring to the inward man; I'd have to agree with her - God's new creature in His Son is incapable of sin.

These issues all boil down to three issues - the Mystery distinction; its life that now is; and towards its impact not only on the Mystery's ultimate purpose, but given what said ultimate purpose.

Grace people tend to over focus on the first, far too less on the second, when we do; the third barely emphasized much at all.

In a sense, odd, in that the mind tends to go from some kind of end result in mind, to its particulars; that from them it might moved forward toward said end result; said end result; its mark to press toward.

This impacts our understanding, and thus, our respective differences in understanding as to the first issue.

But that is another thread.



View attachment 19855



yes, i made the point before that anti MAD or anti Paul folks seem to jump to 'you said you don't sin anymore' - from one extreme to the other, forgetting everything Paul preaches- :patrol:
 

glorydaz

New member
I am not talking about whether sin is imputed to you.

Instead, are you saying that you have sinned since you were saved?

I am not under the law. Why is that so difficult for you to understand?

You want to discard the verse that says sin is not imputed to me, so you can then stand there and accuse me of sin? Really? I think you're working for the wrong side on this one, Jerry. Have you no faith in what Jesus did on the cross?
 

Jerry Shugart

New member
I won't argue with scripture, but I'm thinking you're forgetting what comes later in that chapter.

John 5:28-29
Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

I see a lot of things that are different before the Lord went to the cross. What I don't see in the verse you quote is belief in the death, burial, and resurrection. Why is that?

Of course you just ignore the words of the Lord Jesus at John 5:24. I guess that you think if you just ignore those words it is just as good as answering them.

I will answer the verse you quoted. In order to do good one must work the works of God:

"Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent" (Jn.6:28-29).​

Now if I understand you correctly the Lord Jesus' words at John 5:24 are not in regard being saved because it says nothing about "belief in the death, burial, and resurrection."

So even though the Lord Jesus says that those who believe have eternal life and have passed from death to life you say those believers are not saved.

And what do you say about these words:

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life" (Jn.3:16).​
 

glorydaz

New member
View attachment 19855



yes, i made the point before that anti MAD or anti Paul folks seem to jump to 'you said you don't sin anymore' - from one extreme to the other, forgetting everything Paul preaches- :patrol:

Let's face it....only man can be so foolish. In God's eyes, we are either saints or sinners...righteous or unrighteous....lost or saved.

Romans 8:33-34
Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth. Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.​
 

Jerry Shugart

New member
You want to discard the verse that says sin is not imputed to me, so you can then stand there and accuse me of sin?

I said this is not about whether or not sin is imputed to you or not. Instead, it is about whether or not you have sinned since you were saved.

And you did not answer this question:

Instead, are you saying that you have sinned since you were saved?

This is a simple question so you should have no problem answering it.
 
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