Has the Church Replaced Israel ?

Idolater

"Lahey, I live in a tent!"
idolater


The New Covenant is the Everlasting Covenant being made manifest in time. That everlasting Covenant was made in eternity past with Jesus Christ and the Father, Jesus Christ being the sole Surety of that Covenant Heb 7:22;13:20 Jesus Christ had a spiritual seed who was in union with Him in that covenant Eph 1:4 and so all the promises were made to Jesus Christ and His seed, not to the physical jews of a earthy nation. David is a type of Christ in this everlasting covenant Ps 89:3-4

I have made a covenant with my chosen,
I have sworn unto David my servant,
4 thy seed will I establish for ever,

and build up thy throne to all generations. Selah.

Thats actually the New Covenant, it was made to Jesus Christ and His seed, it was only a type and shadow when God said He would make a New Covenant with the House of Israel in Jer 31,

After all Jesus Christ is the Mediator of the New Covenant Heb 8,12 because it was always His Covenant from the foundation!

Heb 12:24

and to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.
Obviously when Jesus returns, He's going to establish whatever political situation He wants. That goes without saying. In the meantime we are not only free to simply do our best, based on the facts of the matter, but it is our duty.
 

beloved57

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The Church is Spiritual Israel now as it was under the OT since both Paul and Peter acknowledge the Grace that would come upon the Gentiles as being promises fulfilled that were made to Spiritual Israel 1 Pet 1:10-12

10 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:

11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

12 Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.

Notice Vs 10 The Prophets prophesied of the Grace that should come unto you. Now this is the same dispensation of Grace Paul preached and declared to be unto the Gentiles Eph 3:1-6

For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,

2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:

3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,

4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

See Peter was speaking of Salvation Grace proclaimed in the Gospel, and so was Paul. The Gospel Peter refered to in 1 Pet 1:12

12 Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.

Is the same Gospel Paul refers to in Eph 3:6

6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

Again the Grace Peter refers to in 1 Pet 1:10


10 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:

Is the same Grace Paul writes of in Eph 3:2


2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
 

beloved57

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Also the same Gospel Grace and Salvation Peter preached with the Holy Ghost sent down from Heaven, he says the Angels desired to look into 1 Pet 1:12

12 Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.

Paul wrote of the same thing, Gospel Grace and Salvation being that under the interest of the Angels, yet he calls them principalities and powers

Eph 3:8-10


8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;

9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,
 

beloved57

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The Old Testament Saints and the New Testament Saints are all part of the Body of Christ, the Church, because they are the Heirs, Heirs of God, Joint Heirs with Jesus Christ their Head Heb 11:9

By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:

The same heirs as in Rom 8 when discussing the Church Rom 8:16-17

16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

Also Rom 4:13-14

13 For the promise, that he[Abraham] should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.

14 For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:

Now Abraham could be heir of the world, only as He is in union with his Head and Joint heir with Jesus Christ Rom 8:17
 

beloved57

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The Church and Israel are the same since Christ sustains the same Headship over them both, revealing that they are the same body if people He was raised to the right hand of God in behalf of:

Acts 5:31

30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree.

31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

Eph 1:20-23

20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,

21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:

22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,

23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

In Acts 5:31 He is a Prince but in Eph 1:22 He is the Head, both titles are relatively the same, can are interchangeable. So Israel in Acts 5:31 is His Body the Church in Eph 1:22,23
 

JudgeRightly

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The Church and Israel are the same

Continuing to repeat this lie will never make it come true, no matter how many times you say it or try to justify it.

You've been shown to be wrong multiple times, yet you stubbornly refuse to concede.
 

Bright Raven

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The Church and Israel are the same since Christ sustains the same Headship over them both, revealing that they are the same body if people He was raised to the right hand of God in behalf of:

Acts 5:31

30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree.

31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

Eph 1:20-23

20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,

21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:

22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,

23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

In Acts 5:31 He is a Prince but in Eph 1:22 He is the Head, both titles are relatively the same, can are interchangeable. So Israel in Acts 5:31 is His Body the Church in Eph 1:22,23
Which tribe do you belong to? The Church and Israel are not the same.
 

Idolater

"Lahey, I live in a tent!"
Christians have been baptized into Jesus Christ, so we are now of the tribe of Judah.
No, we are not baptized into the tribe of Judah 2nd Corinthians 5:16 " Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more." We are baptized into His priesthood, He is the One high priest of the New Covenant.
 

Hoping

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No, we are not baptized into the tribe of Judah 2nd Corinthians 5:16 " Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more." We are baptized into His priesthood, He is the One high priest of the New Covenant.
I said we are baptized into Christ.
He is of the tribe of Judah, and we are in Him.
 

JudgeRightly

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I said we are baptized into Christ.

Those who place their trust in Him are, yes.

He is of the tribe of Judah,

He was born of the tribe of Judah when He came in the flesh, yes.

and we are in Him.

Yes.

None of these things make us of the tribe of Judah though.

Paul is explicit:

But on the contrary, when they saw that the gospel for the uncircumcised had been committed to me, as the gospel for the circumcised was to Peter(for He who worked effectively in Peter for the apostleship to the circumcised also worked effectively in me toward the Gentiles),and when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that had been given to me, they gave me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship, that we should go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised. - Galatians 2:7-9 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Galatians2:7-9&version=NKJV

For this reason I, Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus for you Gentiles—if indeed you have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which was given to me for you,how that by revelation He made known to me the mystery (as I have briefly written already,by which, when you read, you may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ),which in other ages was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to His holy apostles and prophets:that the Gentiles should be fellow heirs, of the same body, and partakers of His promise in Christ through the gospel,of which I became a minister according to the gift of the grace of God given to me by the effective working of His power. - Ephesians 3:1-7 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ephesians3:1-7&version=NKJV

Christians are not part of Israel. We are a NEW creature. We're under a different covenant than Israel.

Therefore, from now on, we regard no one according to the flesh. Even though we have known Christ according to the flesh, yet now we know Him thus no longer.Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.Now all things are of God, who has reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and has given us the ministry of reconciliation,that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation. - 2 Corinthians 5:16-19 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2Corinthians5:16-19&version=NKJV
 

Hoping

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Those who place their trust in Him are, yes.



He was born of the tribe of Judah when He came in the flesh, yes.



Yes.

None of these things make us of the tribe of Judah though.

Paul is explicit:

But on the contrary, when they saw that the gospel for the uncircumcised had been committed to me, as the gospel for the circumcised was to Peter(for He who worked effectively in Peter for the apostleship to the circumcised also worked effectively in me toward the Gentiles),and when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that had been given to me, they gave me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship, that we should go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised. - Galatians 2:7-9 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Galatians2:7-9&version=NKJV

For this reason I, Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus for you Gentiles—if indeed you have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which was given to me for you,how that by revelation He made known to me the mystery (as I have briefly written already,by which, when you read, you may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ),which in other ages was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to His holy apostles and prophets:that the Gentiles should be fellow heirs, of the same body, and partakers of His promise in Christ through the gospel,of which I became a minister according to the gift of the grace of God given to me by the effective working of His power. - Ephesians 3:1-7 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ephesians3:1-7&version=NKJV

Christians are not part of Israel. We are a NEW creature. We're under a different covenant than Israel.

Therefore, from now on, we regard no one according to the flesh. Even though we have known Christ according to the flesh, yet now we know Him thus no longer.Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.Now all things are of God, who has reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and has given us the ministry of reconciliation,that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation. - 2 Corinthians 5:16-19 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2Corinthians5:16-19&version=NKJV
So, there are two gospels.
I can't agree.
You are again failing to distinguish between the Israelites in Christ and the land of Israel.
The unbelievers are not in Christ, and believing Gentiles have no part with them.
But we are one with the believing Israelites.
 

JudgeRightly

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So, there are two gospels.

There are multiple. "Gospel" just means "good news."

I can't agree.

Too bad.

You are again failing to distinguish between the Israelites in Christ and the land of Israel.

False.

The unbelievers are not in Christ,

Duh.

and believing Gentiles have no part with them.

There is neither Jew nor Greek in the Body of Christ.

But we are one with the believing Israelites.

Chapter, verse.

Are you "in Christ"?
What tribe was He of?

Supra.

As Christians, whether Israelite of Gentile,

Begging the question. As I just said, in the Body of Christ, there is neither Jew (Israelite) or Greek (Gentile).

are no longer under the Mosaic Law,

ANY LAW! Not just the Mosaic law!

tribalism is a moot point anyway.

Saying it doesn't make it so.
 

Hoping

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There are multiple. "Gospel" just means "good news."
But there is only one gospel of Jesus Christ.
There is neither Jew nor Greek in the Body of Christ.
Agreed.
Chapter, verse.
Gal 3:28..."There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Begging the question. As I just said, in the Body of Christ, there is neither Jew (Israelite) or Greek (Gentile).
Agreed, we are all one now.
ANY LAW! Not just the Mosaic law!
Huh?
Saying it doesn't make it so.
I'm sure glad I had the scripture to make it clear we are one with the believing Jews.
The church hasn't replaced the nation of Israel, but we have been grafted into the nation of believing Jews.
 

Bright Raven

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Are you "in Christ"?
What tribe was He of?
As Christians, whether Israelite of Gentile, are no longer under the Mosaic Law, tribalism is a moot point anyway.
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Are Gentile believers of the Tribe of Judah ?

Gary Hayes
Studied Literature at Briar Cliff University (Graduated 1996)Author has 795 answers and 120.2K answer viewsMay 10


No. The 12 tribes of Israel are Reuben, Simeon, Levi, Judah, Zebulun, Issachar, Dan, Gad, Asher, Naphtali, Joseph, and Benjamin. These men were not Gentiles and the nation which sprang up from them weren’t Gentiles either. There are Gentile nations that want to claim that they came from the tribe of Israel, or that they are the lost tribe, but it isn’t so.

4
 

Hoping

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Profile photo for Gary Hayes
Are Gentile believers of the Tribe of Judah ?
Gary Hayes
Studied Literature at Briar Cliff University (Graduated 1996)Author has 795 answers and 120.2K answer viewsMay 10


No. The 12 tribes of Israel are Reuben, Simeon, Levi, Judah, Zebulun, Issachar, Dan, Gad, Asher, Naphtali, Joseph, and Benjamin. These men were not Gentiles and the nation which sprang up from them weren’t Gentiles either. There are Gentile nations that want to claim that they came from the tribe of Israel, or that they are the lost tribe, but it isn’t so.

4
Abraham was a Gentile.
 
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