ECT Hades / The Grave

way 2 go

Well-known member
For those people that are not the devil's children it will just be dead and in a grave.
no

Christians go to heaven and wait for the resurrection of their bodies.
2Co 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
 

iamaberean

New member
no

Christians go to heaven and wait for the resurrection of their bodies.
2Co 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

1Co 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

Joh 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
Jesus is speaking of those people who lived in the age of law.

Joh 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
Now Jesus says if you are alive and believeth in me then they will never die.

Luk 23:42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.
Luk 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.
The resurrection started when Jesus passed away on the cross. He told the thief, To day shall thou be with me.

As as Christian I will never die, that means spiritually you know.

The resurrection started on the day Jesus died on the cross. Since that time no Christian has died, according to Jesus.

The resurrection of those of the law, happened on the last day, again the day Jesus died on the cross.
Joh_6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
 

Freedm

New member
no

Christians go to heaven and wait for the resurrection of their bodies.
2Co 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

So if we go to heaven immediately upon death, then what's the point of judgment day?

And if we are immortal spirits immediately upon death, then what's the point of resurrection day?
 

Freedm

New member
Judgement
Judgment is to choose our eternal destination, but by your theory that determination is made immediately upon death, so there is no point to judgment day. According to your theory by the time judgment day arrives, our judgment is already made.

we are immortal spirits now

physical bodies
Paul said we would be raised as spiritual bodies, so no, we will not get our physical bodies back.

1 Corinthians 15:44
It is sewn a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.

It's time to let go of your doctrine. Not only does scripture not support it; it outright rejects it.
 

way 2 go

Well-known member
Judgment is to choose our eternal destination,
eternal destination is finalized at death
Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed to men once to die, but after this the judgment,

but by your theory that determination is made immediately upon death, so there is no point to judgment day. According to your theory by the time judgment day arrives, our judgment is already made.


Mat 12:36 But I say to you that every idle word, whatever men may speak, they shall give account of it in the day of judgment.

hell & the Lake of fire are different places

Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead in it. And death and hell delivered up the dead in them. And each one of them was judged according to their works.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the Lake of Fire. This is the second death.


Paul said we would be raised as spiritual bodies, so no, we will not get our physical bodies back.

1 Corinthians 15:44
It is sewn a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.
a physical spiritual body ,not just a spirit

Luk 24:39 Behold My hands and My feet, that I am He! Handle Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see Me have.

It's time to let go of your doctrine. Not only does scripture not support it; it outright rejects it.
since you have been wrong every single time ,when are you going to give up your false doctrine

since you were not persuaded by Jesus resurrection , you won't hear me

Luk 16:28 for I have five brothers, so that he may testify to them, lest they also come into this place of torment. ...
Luk 16:31 And he said to him, If they do not hear Moses and the Prophets, they will not be persuaded, even though one rose from the dead.
 

WeberHome

New member
Re: Hades / The Grave

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The Bible allots but one future resurrection per person (Dan 12:2 and John 5:28-29). So when the condemned are terminated in the lake of brimstone depicted at Rev 20:11-15, they won't be coming back because they will have used up their one future resurrection to stand trial and face justice at the great white throne event.
_
 

Freedm

New member
eternal destination is finalized at death
Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed to men once to die, but after this the judgment,
After yes, not at the same time. A thousand years later is "after", so this verse does not prove your position in any way.
 

Freedm

New member
hell & the Lake of fire are different places

Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead in it. And death and hell delivered up the dead in them. And each one of them was judged according to their works.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the Lake of Fire. This is the second death.

You're kind of right, but I don't think you know why. The word translated as "hell" in those verses is "Hades", and Hades is simply the grave, the unseen place, the abode of the dead. It's not a place where bad people go. It's just death.

The only thing that comes close, in scripture, to the modern day concept of hell is the lake of fire. Most other references to hell in scripture are bad translations of "the grave".
 

Freedm

New member
since you have been wrong every single time ,when are you going to give up your false doctrine

Tell me, how do you reconcile your doctrine with Genesis 3:19?

"For dust you are and to dust you shall return".

Let me guess. You're going to insert the words "your body" somewhere in there. Am I right? You know if you have to insert words, you're on the wrong track.
 

Freedm

New member
...the cleansing of this reality of all evil.

You say that the point of judgment day is "the cleansing of all evil"? Then why is it not called cleansing day? You don't think judgment day has something to do with "the judging of the dead"? You know that judging and cleansing are not the same thing, right?
 

Freedm

New member
I suspect all we will find is that your interpretation of scripture supports universalism... sigh.
Well, with that attitude I guess I won't even bother showing you the scriptures because you've already decided that, no matter what I show you, it doesn't support universalism.

Sigh. How do you people expect to learn anything? It boggles the mind.
 

Arthur Brain

BANNED
Banned
Well, with that attitude I guess I won't even bother showing you the scriptures because you've already decided that, no matter what I show you, it doesn't support universalism.

Sigh. How do you people expect to learn anything? It boggles the mind.

It doesn't really fly around here as it conflicts with the "traditional" notions of "hell", even though there's no overall unity on just what that is in itself...
 

Aimiel

New member
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead in it. And death and hell delivered up the dead in them. And each one of them was judged according to their works.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the Lake of Fire. This is the second death.
I believe that Death and Hell are not only an action (death) and a place (hell) but that they are also spirits. Otherwise: why should Death or Hell need to be cast into the Lake of Fire? How can you cast an action (death) into a Lake of Fire? Why put a place (hell) into another place; except to torment those two rulers of the darkness of this world who deserve their fate?
 

Aimiel

New member
It doesn't really fly around here as it conflicts with the "traditional" notions of "hell", even though there's no overall unity on just what that is in itself...
Most everything that God said is subject to controversy in one way or another; which, I believe, is designed to give us points for argument and speaking points to spark conversations with. I don't believe we need to fight or call anyone names or say they're anathema due to holding differing opinions.
 

Arthur Brain

BANNED
Banned
Most everything that God said is subject to controversy in one way or another; which, I believe, is designed to give us points for argument and speaking points to spark conversations with. I don't believe we need to fight or call anyone names or say they're anathema due to holding differing opinions.

Well, in essence I agree. Productive conversations are those without juvenile insults or squabbling. Disagreement is fine as long as there's room for actual debate.
 
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