God is Jesus vs. Jesus is God
- Thread starter 2003cobra
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keypurr
Well-known member
See, you can think for yourself. Not very deep though.
keypurr
Well-known member
Maybe, not my decision to make.
Yes Apple7
The Greek that was posted here is in reference to the verse in Mat 28:19
πορευθεντες ουν μαθητευσατε παντα τα εθνη βαπτιζοντες αυτους εις το ονομα του πατρος και του υιου και του αγιου πνευματος - Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
But - when I read the verses in the Bible I have so many questions about the trinity doctrine because, The Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit are not written or described as three plural Names of the father, son and spirit. - I have read and read, and read and I honestly cannot personally find anything about the Trinity. Father is not a name, son is neither a name and Spirit is not a name. (I wondered about WHAT IS THE NAME OF THE FATHER SON AND SPIRIT } ?
I found that this is why “ Baptism “ was ALWAYS performed in the Bible - In the Name Of The LORD, YAAHOSHUA, THE ANOINTED.
I often wonder , what are the Three Separate Names of The Father, Son, and Spirit, - THE Three distinct Persons of the trinity ? If They are 3 distinct PERSONS - What are their Names...- of these three persons that trinitarians always are telling me that exist.
Honestly, - I see that Father is not a name – Son is not a name – and Spirit is not a name.
The Names of the three Separate Persons / People of the Trinity are what I cannot find anywhere in the Bible because, the three persons are not there. And - The Bible never calls God a “ PERSON “ in the Original Greek manuscripts. I do not know where the three plural names of the Father, Son and Spirit are.
And I do not see where the 2 or 3 distince persons of Husbands of the Bride are, or 2 or 3 distince person of spiritual shepherds or 2 rocks of the beleivers. – as God the Father has His bride and Yahoshua also has His bride. God The Father is the only Rock and Yahoshua was that Rock and God the Father alone is the only shepherd and Yahoshua is that same shepherd. Every single last title, name, characteristic, position and every single last thing that is said about God is also said about Yahoshua - to even The literal God that Shed His own blood is also Yahoshua.
I try to understand where You are coming from, but i have searched and searched and spent so much time praying and seeking the truth and I just cannot accept or understand the trinity doctrine. I was hoping that someone here could help me to understand more about the trinity.
My Wonderful friends, I truly find that the Apostles went about performing Baptism in The Name Of The Lord, Yahoshua, The Anointing. Every single time, every single method and mode of performing this commandment, I Just notice what the Bible says about this Commandment.
“ ” ’ ’ Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be Baptized every one of you in the name of Yahoshuah Christ, For the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost … … Acts 2:38
Every single time baptism was performed, the same exact way.
GA 3:27...... For as many of you as have been BAPTIZED into Christ have put on Christ.
CO 1:13...... Is Christ divided? .. was Paul crucified for you? or were ye BAPTIZED in the name of Paul?
Here Paul is commanding to baptize DIRECTLY .....in Yahoshuahs NAME.... clearly.
RO 6:3...... Know ye not, that so many of us as were BAPTIZED into Yaahoshuah Christ were BAPTIZED into his death?
AC 19:5 ...... When they heard this, they were BAPTIZED in the name of the Yahoshuah Christ.
AC 10:48...... and he commanded them to be BAPTIZED in the name of the Lord…
AC 8:16...... (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were.. BAPTIZED in the name of the Yahoshuah Christ.)
AC 8:12...... But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and in the name of Yahoshuah Christ, they were BAPTIZED.
Acts 19:3-5 ......"They were baptized unto Johns baptism. } Paul, SAID YOU are to BELIEVE ON CHRIST Yaahoshuah... ... When they heard this they were baptized in the name of the Lord Yahoshuah ."
Luk 24:47 Repentance and remission of sins should be preached in HIS NAME among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
Acts 4:12: "Neither is there salvation in any other: For there is none another name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved." { Yaahoshuah Name is the only name.
Encyclopedia of Religion and Ethics (1951). II, 384, 389: "The formula used was "in the name of the Lord Yaahoshuah Christ".......there is no evidence for the use of the trine name The earliest form, represented in the Acts, was simple immersion in water
Interpreter's Dictionary of the Bible (1962), I 351: "The evidence suggests that baptism in early Christianity was administered, not in the threefold name, but 'in the name of Yaahoshuah Christ' or 'in the name of the Lord Yaahoshuah.'"
Otto Heick, A History of Christian Thought (1965), I, 53: "At first baptism was administered in the name of Yaahoshuah, but gradually in the name of the Triune God: Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
Hastings’ s Dictionary of the Bible (1898). I, 241: "[One explanation is that] the original form of words was "into the name of Yaahoshuah Christ" or 'the Lord Yaahoshuah,' Baptism into the name of the Trinity was a later development."
Williston Walker, A History of the Christian Church (1947), page 58: "The Trinitarian baptismal formula,,, was displacing the older baptism in the name of Christ."
The New Schaff-Herzog Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge (1957), I, 435: "The New Testament knows only baptism in the name of Yaahoshuah which still occurs even in the second and third centuries."
Canney's Encyclopedia of Religions (1970), page 53: "Persons were baptized at first 'in the name of Yaahoshuah Christ' or 'in the name of the Lord Yaahoshuah' Afterwards, with the development of the doctrine of the Trinity, they were baptized 'in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost.'"
Encyclopedia Biblical (1899), I, 473: "It is natural to conclude that baptism was administered in the earliest times 'in the name of Yaahoshuah Christ,' or in that 'of the Lord Yaahoshuah.' This view is confirmed by the fact that the earliest forms of the baptismal confession appear to have been single-not triple, as was the later creed."
Encyclopedia Britannica, 11th ed. (1920), II 365: "The Trinitarian formula and trine immersion were not uniformly used from the beginning Bapti[sm] into the name of the Lord [was] the normal formula of the New Testament. In the 3rd century baptism in the name of Christ was still so widespread that Pope Stephen, in opposition to Cyprian of Carthage, declared it to be valid."
FAUSSETS BIBLE ENCYCLOPEDIA , page 359 - Yaahoshuah. Means Jehovah Salvation. "Peter replied, Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Yaahoshuah Christ for the remission of ...the authenticity of water baptism today in the name of Yaahoshuah Christ, cannot be denied!
New Catholic Encyclopedia, 1967 Edition, Vol.13, p.1021 - The first use of the Latin word "trinitas" (trinity) with reference to God, is found in Tertullian’ s writings (about 213 A.D.) He was the first to use the term "persons" (plural) in a Trinitarian context.
World Book Encyclopedia , 1975 Edition, Vol. T, p.363 - Belief in Father, Son and Holy Ghost was first defined by the earliest general council of churches. This was the First Council of Nicaea in 325 A.D.
"The doctrine of the Trinity is not taught in the Old Testament" (New Catholic Encyclopedia, 1967, Vol. XIV, p. 306).
The Trinity "is not directly and immediately the Word of God" ( New Catholic Encyclopedia, 1967, Vol. XIV, p. 304
The dogma of the Trinity in the stricter sense of the word was a late arrival, product of 3 centuries' .............. Trinitarians-went back to the period of Christian origins. (New Catholic Encyclopedia, 1965, Trinity, p299-300)
NEW INTERNATIONAL ENCYCLOPEDIA, Vol 22, Pg 477. The term Trinity was originated by Tertullian, a Roman Catholic Church Father.
I have tried and cried out to God to find the answer to the question – “ What are The Names Of the three persons of The Trinity ? - where are these three Holy plural names ?
The Greek that was posted here is in reference to the verse in Mat 28:19
πορευθεντες ουν μαθητευσατε παντα τα εθνη βαπτιζοντες αυτους εις το ονομα του πατρος και του υιου και του αγιου πνευματος - Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
But - when I read the verses in the Bible I have so many questions about the trinity doctrine because, The Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit are not written or described as three plural Names of the father, son and spirit. - I have read and read, and read and I honestly cannot personally find anything about the Trinity. Father is not a name, son is neither a name and Spirit is not a name. (I wondered about WHAT IS THE NAME OF THE FATHER SON AND SPIRIT } ?
I found that this is why “ Baptism “ was ALWAYS performed in the Bible - In the Name Of The LORD, YAAHOSHUA, THE ANOINTED.
I often wonder , what are the Three Separate Names of The Father, Son, and Spirit, - THE Three distinct Persons of the trinity ? If They are 3 distinct PERSONS - What are their Names...- of these three persons that trinitarians always are telling me that exist.
Honestly, - I see that Father is not a name – Son is not a name – and Spirit is not a name.
The Names of the three Separate Persons / People of the Trinity are what I cannot find anywhere in the Bible because, the three persons are not there. And - The Bible never calls God a “ PERSON “ in the Original Greek manuscripts. I do not know where the three plural names of the Father, Son and Spirit are.
And I do not see where the 2 or 3 distince persons of Husbands of the Bride are, or 2 or 3 distince person of spiritual shepherds or 2 rocks of the beleivers. – as God the Father has His bride and Yahoshua also has His bride. God The Father is the only Rock and Yahoshua was that Rock and God the Father alone is the only shepherd and Yahoshua is that same shepherd. Every single last title, name, characteristic, position and every single last thing that is said about God is also said about Yahoshua - to even The literal God that Shed His own blood is also Yahoshua.
I try to understand where You are coming from, but i have searched and searched and spent so much time praying and seeking the truth and I just cannot accept or understand the trinity doctrine. I was hoping that someone here could help me to understand more about the trinity.
My Wonderful friends, I truly find that the Apostles went about performing Baptism in The Name Of The Lord, Yahoshua, The Anointing. Every single time, every single method and mode of performing this commandment, I Just notice what the Bible says about this Commandment.
“ ” ’ ’ Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be Baptized every one of you in the name of Yahoshuah Christ, For the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost … … Acts 2:38
Every single time baptism was performed, the same exact way.
GA 3:27...... For as many of you as have been BAPTIZED into Christ have put on Christ.
CO 1:13...... Is Christ divided? .. was Paul crucified for you? or were ye BAPTIZED in the name of Paul?
Here Paul is commanding to baptize DIRECTLY .....in Yahoshuahs NAME.... clearly.
RO 6:3...... Know ye not, that so many of us as were BAPTIZED into Yaahoshuah Christ were BAPTIZED into his death?
AC 19:5 ...... When they heard this, they were BAPTIZED in the name of the Yahoshuah Christ.
AC 10:48...... and he commanded them to be BAPTIZED in the name of the Lord…
AC 8:16...... (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were.. BAPTIZED in the name of the Yahoshuah Christ.)
AC 8:12...... But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and in the name of Yahoshuah Christ, they were BAPTIZED.
Acts 19:3-5 ......"They were baptized unto Johns baptism. } Paul, SAID YOU are to BELIEVE ON CHRIST Yaahoshuah... ... When they heard this they were baptized in the name of the Lord Yahoshuah ."
Luk 24:47 Repentance and remission of sins should be preached in HIS NAME among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
Acts 4:12: "Neither is there salvation in any other: For there is none another name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved." { Yaahoshuah Name is the only name.
Encyclopedia of Religion and Ethics (1951). II, 384, 389: "The formula used was "in the name of the Lord Yaahoshuah Christ".......there is no evidence for the use of the trine name The earliest form, represented in the Acts, was simple immersion in water
Interpreter's Dictionary of the Bible (1962), I 351: "The evidence suggests that baptism in early Christianity was administered, not in the threefold name, but 'in the name of Yaahoshuah Christ' or 'in the name of the Lord Yaahoshuah.'"
Otto Heick, A History of Christian Thought (1965), I, 53: "At first baptism was administered in the name of Yaahoshuah, but gradually in the name of the Triune God: Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
Hastings’ s Dictionary of the Bible (1898). I, 241: "[One explanation is that] the original form of words was "into the name of Yaahoshuah Christ" or 'the Lord Yaahoshuah,' Baptism into the name of the Trinity was a later development."
Williston Walker, A History of the Christian Church (1947), page 58: "The Trinitarian baptismal formula,,, was displacing the older baptism in the name of Christ."
The New Schaff-Herzog Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge (1957), I, 435: "The New Testament knows only baptism in the name of Yaahoshuah which still occurs even in the second and third centuries."
Canney's Encyclopedia of Religions (1970), page 53: "Persons were baptized at first 'in the name of Yaahoshuah Christ' or 'in the name of the Lord Yaahoshuah' Afterwards, with the development of the doctrine of the Trinity, they were baptized 'in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost.'"
Encyclopedia Biblical (1899), I, 473: "It is natural to conclude that baptism was administered in the earliest times 'in the name of Yaahoshuah Christ,' or in that 'of the Lord Yaahoshuah.' This view is confirmed by the fact that the earliest forms of the baptismal confession appear to have been single-not triple, as was the later creed."
Encyclopedia Britannica, 11th ed. (1920), II 365: "The Trinitarian formula and trine immersion were not uniformly used from the beginning Bapti[sm] into the name of the Lord [was] the normal formula of the New Testament. In the 3rd century baptism in the name of Christ was still so widespread that Pope Stephen, in opposition to Cyprian of Carthage, declared it to be valid."
FAUSSETS BIBLE ENCYCLOPEDIA , page 359 - Yaahoshuah. Means Jehovah Salvation. "Peter replied, Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Yaahoshuah Christ for the remission of ...the authenticity of water baptism today in the name of Yaahoshuah Christ, cannot be denied!
New Catholic Encyclopedia, 1967 Edition, Vol.13, p.1021 - The first use of the Latin word "trinitas" (trinity) with reference to God, is found in Tertullian’ s writings (about 213 A.D.) He was the first to use the term "persons" (plural) in a Trinitarian context.
World Book Encyclopedia , 1975 Edition, Vol. T, p.363 - Belief in Father, Son and Holy Ghost was first defined by the earliest general council of churches. This was the First Council of Nicaea in 325 A.D.
"The doctrine of the Trinity is not taught in the Old Testament" (New Catholic Encyclopedia, 1967, Vol. XIV, p. 306).
The Trinity "is not directly and immediately the Word of God" ( New Catholic Encyclopedia, 1967, Vol. XIV, p. 304
The dogma of the Trinity in the stricter sense of the word was a late arrival, product of 3 centuries' .............. Trinitarians-went back to the period of Christian origins. (New Catholic Encyclopedia, 1965, Trinity, p299-300)
NEW INTERNATIONAL ENCYCLOPEDIA, Vol 22, Pg 477. The term Trinity was originated by Tertullian, a Roman Catholic Church Father.
I have tried and cried out to God to find the answer to the question – “ What are The Names Of the three persons of The Trinity ? - where are these three Holy plural names ?
Apple7
New member
Actually, that would be your nurse changing your bed pan...
Apple7
New member
If you deny The Trinity, then why in the world would you go and quote an English Trinitarian rendering when you were asked for the correct and proper rendering?
Are you practicing hypocrisy?
keypurr
Well-known member
Who Is a True Israelite?
On the surface, it still might be easy enough for one to believe that the 144,000 are from the 12 tribes listed in Revelation 7. But a closer reading quickly reveals that from the time of Jesus, most of the prophecies speaking of Israel are focused on the children of faith—or spiritual Israel regardless of whether they were Jew or Gentile by blood. Here is a small sample of the many texts that establish this truth. “For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh; but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit” (Romans 2:28,29). “And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise” (Galatians 3:29). The Lord told the ancient Israelites, “And you shall be to Me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation” (Exodus 19:6). Notice in the New Testament, Peter applies that title to spiritual Israel or the church: “But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people” (1 Peter 2:9). James gives one of the most convincing Scriptures that proves that the Apostles viewed the tribes in a spiritual sense. “James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the 12 tribes which are scattered abroad, greetings” (James 1:1). The content of James’ letter is clearly addressed to Christians, and yet he plainly refers to them as spiritual Jews from 12 spiritual tribes.
On the surface, it still might be easy enough for one to believe that the 144,000 are from the 12 tribes listed in Revelation 7. But a closer reading quickly reveals that from the time of Jesus, most of the prophecies speaking of Israel are focused on the children of faith—or spiritual Israel regardless of whether they were Jew or Gentile by blood. Here is a small sample of the many texts that establish this truth. “For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh; but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit” (Romans 2:28,29). “And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise” (Galatians 3:29). The Lord told the ancient Israelites, “And you shall be to Me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation” (Exodus 19:6). Notice in the New Testament, Peter applies that title to spiritual Israel or the church: “But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people” (1 Peter 2:9). James gives one of the most convincing Scriptures that proves that the Apostles viewed the tribes in a spiritual sense. “James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the 12 tribes which are scattered abroad, greetings” (James 1:1). The content of James’ letter is clearly addressed to Christians, and yet he plainly refers to them as spiritual Jews from 12 spiritual tribes.
Apple7
New member
Further....let's expose your ignorance of the original languages...
πορευθεντες ουν μαθητευσατε παντα τα εθνη βαπτιζοντες αυτους εις το ονομα του πατρος και του υιου και του αγιου πνευματος
Then having gone, disciple all nations, baptizing them into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
This passage contains arthrous substantives connected via kai which indicates distinction and separate referents.
However, while distinction is made between the referents, each has the same singular name.
Three Persons in one Being.
This same singular name of three persons’ baptism is the same as the Aaronic blessing in which the singular name of Yahweh is repeated three times (Num 6.22 – 27).
Separate and yet the same, The Trinity.
keypurr
Well-known member
Welcome to TOL friend.
keypurr
Well-known member
Apple7 would be good as a Greek salesman.
drbrumley
Well-known member
keypurr
Well-known member
It is just someone opinion from the past. Glad you enjoyed it.
drbrumley
Well-known member
Oh I enjoyed it all right...
Apple7
New member
keypops...isn't it past your bedtime...?
Right Divider
Body part
Precisely!
(and poor keypurr still doesn't know the difference between "your" and "you're"... and yet wants to teach us about the "language" of the Bible. He's a fraud through and through!)
keypurr
Well-known member
Soon, I know you would like that. But I have not given up on you yet.
keypurr
Well-known member
At my age I do not have to care about that. but I do know about God and his Son, you don't.
You certainly don't exhibit Proverbs 20:29.
keypurr
Well-known member
My hair is not grey, it is white. But I do ok for 82. I take care of my own apartment, mow the lawn, chase my lady friend around, drive all over the hills.
And I think for myself. I am independent. For now anyway.
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