God Did Not "Create" All Men Equal.

[Mystery]

All men are born equal in at least one respect, and unequal in others.

 

[Nineveh]

Justice does not require equality. Scripture neither says nor demonstrates such a notion.

On the contrary, God says, "You shall not show partiality to a poor man in his dispute." and "You shall not pervert the judgment of your poor in his dispute." and "Also you shall not oppress a stranger, for you know the heart of a stranger, because you were strangers in the land of Egypt." Check Ex 23. "You shall not pervert justice; you shall not show partiality, nor take a bribe, for a bribe blinds the eyes of the wise and twists the words of the righteous." Check Deut 16.

Town Heretic was spot on in his assessment of being "equal under the law".

The God of Justice will mete differing justices according to each man's deeds for whoever is judged by Him.

Even that is equal. Eye for an eye. The punishment was to be equal to the crime.

 

[Shelli]

Shelli, I wasn't addressing your first post, was I? I was addressing the one I had the most issue with. The one where you smeared the name of justice and misunderstood how it worked, then seemed a little overjoyed at someone's condemnation.

Whenever I have to tell someone this, the mood is much more somber. I cannot condemn to hell someone over believing a different theological issue, but only for rejecting Jesus Christ.

When God created man, here is what happened:

Gen 2
20 So Adam gave names to all cattle, to the birds of the air, and to every beast of the field. But for Adam there was not found a helper comparable to him.
21 And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall on Adam, and he slept; and He took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh in its place. 22 Then the rib which the LORD God had taken from man He made into a woman, and He brought her to the man.
23 And Adam said:
“This is now bone of my bones
And flesh of my flesh;
She shall be called Woman,
Because she was taken out of Man.”
24 Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.

These were the only two humans God created. They were one flesh, though they were two people. Of all creation, she was the only other creature that was comparable to man. Adam needed her as she needed him.

Both were both one. So even though each had their own strengths, they completed each other. In short, though they did different things, they were both equal. They were both one.

As it goes, some are born with more abilities than others. We however are the same because these abilities are not our own, but rather God's. Who made music? Who made the fingers that play the piano? Who gave man his voice? Who gave man muscle? Everything we have we received from our creator, so we cannot boast that what we have is ours.

1 Corinthians 4:7
For who makes you differ from another? And what do you have that you did not receive? Now if you did indeed receive it, why do you boast as if you had not received it?

As a christian, who is our strength when we are weak? Is it not Christ?

When we are stripped of these things (which we will be at the grave) we find we are equals. And God will judge us in the same way. He also loves us the same. He returns love the same, and rewards the same. He will see that all are punished the same. In this, he equally treats us according to our works, or according to his grace if we received it.

Consider the parable about the rich man giving the 3 men different talents. Each man was judged the same, according what he had been given, not by what he made. The second man wasn't thrown out because his money didn't equal the first. They were both accepted because they both did well with their talents.

It is not what we start with that gives us value, but what we do with what we started with. Some become great, some give up the ability to improve. Yet all are measured by the same accord, and are treated as equals, and loved as equals.

Matthew 20:12
saying, ‘These last men have worked only one hour, and you made them equal to us who have borne the burden and the heat of the day.’

Deuteronomy 1:17
You shall not show partiality in judgment; you shall hear the small as well as the great; you shall not be afraid in any man’s presence, for the judgment is God’s. The case that is too hard for you, bring to me, and I will hear it.’

Romans 2:11
For there is no partiality with God.

1 Peter 1:17
And if you call on the Father, who without partiality judges according to each one’s work, conduct yourselves throughout the time of your stay here in fear;

Why is God so impartial? Because our wealth and abilities are nothing to him. These are not what makes us worth anything to him. If a rich man and a poor man are brought to court, they are not "equals" according to the worldly view of equal. But in the only court that matters, they are. In the end, we are all poor, needing food. All are weak, needing strength.

Pat,

You cannot comdemn anyone to Hell, and God is not entirely impartial.

It is a rhetoric device of church talkers to lay out a longwinded monologue using some Scripture, so that they may then in a supposed conclusion spout their agenda and personal ideology which is most often unrequired by the Scripture they have used.

Let us go beyond preachy sounding church talk, and focus on how God has shown partiality in Scriptural examples. Do the following examples demonstrate partiality or impartiality by God when creating various people?

1. Eve, being subserviant to Adam? Genesis 2:18b, "I [God] will make him an help meet for him." I Corinthians 11:8-9, "For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man. Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man."

2. Isaac and Esau? Genesis 25:23, "And the Lord said unto her, Two nations are in they womb, and two manners of people will be seperated from thy bowels; and the one people shall be stronger than the other people; and the elder shall serve the younger."

3. The first born of the Jews? Numbers 8:16, "They are wholly given unto me [God] from among the children of Israel; instead of such as open every wombthe firstborn of all the children of Israel. have I taken them unto me."

4. The Levitic priesthood? Numbers 18:6, "And I, behold, I have taken your brethren the Levites from among the children of Israel: to you they are given as a gift for the Lord, to do the service of the taber]nacle of the congregation."

5. Samson? Judges 13:5b, "For the child shall be a Nazarite unto God from the womb."

6. John the Baptiser? Luke 1:15b, "He shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb."

Webster's Dictionary states:

"respect vt. 1. to feel or show honor or esteem for 2. to show consideration for"

"partial adj. 1. favoring one person, faction, etc. more than another; biased "

God has indeed, and does, show consideration and partiality for those He chooses to. That is part of being sovereign. All churchy sounding talk and longwindedness will not change the witness of Scripture.

I suspect the disrespect God has for people, as mentioned in Acts 10:34, being the singular appearance of that statement in Scripture, is merely Apostle Peter's opinion, because he says, "I perceive." The context of his discourse involves the system of universal accountability to God and recompense through Jesus apart from nationality of any human. Remember, it is not a valid hermeneutic practice to form a Theologic Doctrine upon a single verse, as when using Peter's perception of God's "impartiality" in Acts 10:34 to try to say God has "created all men equal."

It is indeed, according to the examples in Scripture cited above, what we start in life with that gives us value. What we do in life also confers value or condemnation. The two means of receiving value are not mutually exclusive. They both are in operation.

Hopefully, today's church preaching on this and many other concepts will mature beyond the third grade level in the hands of church "leaders."

Shelli.

 

[patman]

Pat,

You cannot comdemn anyone to Hell, and God is not entirely impartial.

It is a rhetoric device of church talkers to lay out a longwinded monologue using some Scripture, so that they may then in a supposed conclusion spout their agenda and personal ideology which is most often unrequired by the Scripture they have used.

Let us go beyond preachy sounding church talk, and focus on how God has shown partiality in Scriptural examples. Do the following examples demonstrate partiality or impartiality by God when creating various people?

.........

It is indeed, according to the examples in Scripture cited above, what we start in life with that gives us value. What we do in life also confers value or condemnation. The two means of receiving value are not mutually exclusive. They both are in operation.

Hopefully, today's church preaching on this and many other concepts will mature beyond the third grade level in the hands of church "leaders."

Shelli.

Shelli,

Church talk? Are you kidding me? You ask for scriptures then when I provide them you call it church talk. Then you ignore it... you probably didn't even read it. But that is ok, it was more for others than for you. I hoped you would benefit from it too.

Your logical region of the brain seems suspect right now. Not that you CAN'T be logical, but you don't seem to apply it for this. For example you said:

"You cannot comdemn anyone to Hell...."

But before you said:

"Have a nice eternity in Hell, Sweetie."
:think:

Not only that, you went through the trouble of replying to a post when it is apparent that you didn't even read what you were replying too...

As it goes, some are born with more abilities than others. We however are the same because these abilities are not our own, but rather God's. Who made music? Who made the fingers that play the piano? Who gave man his voice? Who gave man muscle? Everything we have we received from our creator, so we cannot boast that what we have is ours.

Furthermore, you fail to see how things even out. If God chose Jacob over Esau, Jacob's responsibilities were also greater than Esau. And God's decision isn't always final. For example, he choose Saul as king over Israel but ended up replacing him with David.

And even though in life some have higher jobs, or more abilities than others do, in the end we lose that job, and lose those abilities. What good is muscle in the grave?

Even though some are given "higher" positions or "more abilities" we are equal in worth, and our place in heaven is decided on the same standards.

Mystery said it well
"All men are born equal in at least one respect, and unequal in others."

But the areas that we are equal in are the only ones that mater for eternity.

 

[Town Heretic]

There is no statement in Scripture to establish any so called "prima facie" ideology being of an axiomatic nature to require inherent equality within God's justice. God does what He wills for whatever reason He wants. That is called "sovereignty."

The way you tend to explain it I'd be tempted to call it capricious...not God, just your understanding. Ninevah has given you what you wanted so I'll address a couple of minor points. And by minor points I mean additional mistakes on your part.

I am pleased you found the inconsistency I placed regarding the felony loss of rights and enhanced legal represention not being birth issues. Perhaps, then, you will be able to see all by yourself the distinction between differing rights at birth by God's Will demonstrated in Scripture and the humanly contrived notions of "equal rights" pandered in America's founding documents which cite no Scripture for their basis.

I almost admire the way you transform the sacred trust of a free people into a 'contrived' and 'pandering' bit of minutiae...I was born free, as all men are and I know this right by that faculty which God granted men, the ability to reason. As I know God to be just I can reason that the law which man institutes should be patterned after justice in order for it to serve His pleasure. Equality before the law serves justice and so serves God who is the author and seat of justice.

Jefferson, as articulate and visionary he was, quoted no Scripture in his statements describing American foundations of government. Anybody can insert the name of God with some churchy sounding phraseology into innumerable humanly contrived ideologies. Just read Church history, and read the socio/political/spiritual history of any "Christian" nation.

The same argument could have been made against any scripture before it was included in a compilation we call the Bible. Truth is truth and there is only one source for it.

Perhaps we con continue to discuss the issue of equality/inequality at birth, as this thread originally specified, rather than mix into the discussion the issues of attained and lost rights after birth.

As per your apparent norm, you presume too much. You haven't presented anything like a counter argument to my own and so the matter is hardly settled.

Actually, the issue of human "rights" is not germain to the issue of inequality at creation, so I need not define "rights" as you suppose I should to continue this little chat.

Well, you just couldn't be any more wrong if you made a concerted effort to be so. Having already established that men are born with different heights, talents, etc. the only question becomes is there any measure of equality that exists at birth? One answer is yes, that all men are equal with regard to their God given rights. Those rights are subsequently recognized and protected by just governments but the equality does not find its wellspring in those governments, only protection.

So far, I have seen in here no direct reference from Scripture showing or stating this so called principle that "all men are created equal." I will wait a little longer for that answer, amidst all the other loose comments and cognitive angst proffered as "discussion."

Loose comments? Cognitive angst? You either don't understand the terms you're using or you're a prevaricator. I'm happy you're cracking that thesaurus, but you still need to do more than make derogatory declarations unsupported by reason, example, or analogy.

Since you made this issue based thread into a personal exchange by suggesting for me "a good government class,"

Another errant statement. Either your memory is poor or, again, you intentionally misstate the matter. In point of fact, you began the personalization with the below:

You might want to reconsider turning this issue related discussion into a personal exchange by referencing me personally with lame advice. Looking forward to helping any more conceptual or informational needs. Thanks.

I didn't actually recall offering advice at that point, lame or otherwise. I have no idea what your next sentence in the above was meant to address.

would you like me to suggest some "good classes" from which you might benefit your thinking skills and verbal capacities... ? Be glad to. Anything which works to wean people from parroted Unscriptural ideologies is a good thing.

Thinking skills? Could you mean logic? Had that as an undergrad, long before the law took my reasoning and focused it more diligently. But I appreciate your completely 'non-lame' concern. Verbal capacities? Could you mean language skills? And do you mean to use benefit as a verb? Well, at any rate I thank you, but part of my undergraduate degree contained an English major with a dual concentration in literature and creative writing. Oh, and as an aside, you might want to tighten your attention with regard to spelling if you're intent on taking this particular dismissive tack.

Lastly, would you describe scripture as parroted if used to demonstrate a particular point in opposition to your own?

 

[Shelli]

The way you tend to explain it I'd be tempted to call it capricious...not God, just your understanding. Ninevah has given you what you wanted so I'll address a couple of minor points. And by minor points I mean additional mistakes on your part.


I almost admire the way you transform the sacred trust of a free people into a 'contrived' and 'pandering' bit of minutiae...I was born free, as all men are and I know this right by that faculty which God granted men, the ability to reason. As I know God to be just I can reason that the law which man institutes should be patterned after justice in order for it to serve His pleasure. Equality before the law serves justice and so serves God who is the author and seat of justice.



The same argument could have been made against any scripture before it was included in a compilation we call the Bible. Truth is truth and there is only one source for it.



As per your apparent norm, you presume too much. You haven't presented anything like a counter argument to my own and so the matter is hardly settled.



Well, you just couldn't be any more wrong if you made a concerted effort to be so. Having already established that men are born with different heights, talents, etc. the only question becomes is there any measure of equality that exists at birth? One answer is yes, that all men are equal with regard to their God given rights. Those rights are subsequently recognized and protected by just governments but the equality does not find its wellspring in those governments, only protection.



Loose comments? Cognitive angst? You either don't understand the terms you're using or you're a prevaricator. I'm happy you're cracking that thesaurus, but you still need to do more than make derogatory declarations unsupported by reason, example, or analogy.



Another errant statement. Either your memory is poor or, again, you intentionally misstate the matter. In point of fact, you began the personalization with the below:



I didn't actually recall offering advice at that point, lame or otherwise. I have no idea what your next sentence in the above was meant to address.



Thinking skills? Could you mean logic? Had that as an undergrad, long before the law took my reasoning and focused it more diligently. But I appreciate your completely 'non-lame' concern. Verbal capacities? Could you mean language skills? And do you mean to use benefit as a verb? Well, at any rate I thank you, but part of my undergraduate degree contained an English major with a dual concentration in literature and creative writing. Oh, and as an aside, you might want to tighten your attention with regard to spelling if you're intent on taking this particular dismissive tack.

Lastly, would you describe scripture as parroted if used to demonstrate a particular point in opposition to your own?

Well, at least you are using a few different words, and slightly longer sentences, to parrot what you have been taught by someone authoritatively patriotic. Bless their wonderful heart.

Those English assignments at least helped your confidence. But, your circular reasoning remains unabated. "I know this is right by that faculty which God granted men, the abiltity to reason." Just rephrase that as, "I know because God grants me to know."

Can you insert into this circular little notion any Scripture which states men are created equal? How about some Scripture regarding the "prima facie" part of equality inherent within justice? ( ... or, is it justice inherent within equality ... ? ... ) If it is so important before God, and if God established America as Godly, and if American justice rests upon equality, then there should be clear statements of it in Scripture. What does your well read mind detect in Scripture on this?

And, please, continue to say what you are going to say before you say it. That so turns me on! ... , ... You know, smart and chatty men are ... so ... so ... feminine ... ! ... (!)

( ... Shhh...ellllll...i.i.i.i.i ... )

 

[Town Heretic]

Well, at least you are using a few different words, and slightly longer sentences, to parrot what you have been taught by someone authoritatively patriotic. Bless their wonderful heart.

I think Jefferson is quite beyond your blessing, but I'm sure he would appreciate your sincerity as much as your--let's call it argument...

Those English assignments at least helped your confidence. But, your circular reasoning remains unabated. "I know this is right by that faculty which God granted men, the ability to reason." Just rephrase that as, "I know because God grants me to know."

I find myself similarly encouraged by your improved usage and spelling, though I’m reasonably certain that extra 't' in ability wasn't mine. :squint: And to say I know a thing because it can be reasoned is the antithesis of your restatement. One can be demonstrated the other is a declaration which requires only an utterance.

Can you insert into this circular little notion any Scripture which states men are created equal? How about some Scripture regarding the "prima facie" part of equality inherent within justice? ( ... or, is it justice inherent within equality ... ? ... ) If it is so important before God, and if God established America as Godly, and if American justice rests upon equality, then there should be clear statements of it in Scripture. What does your well read mind detect in Scripture on this?

If American justice rests upon equality (before the law) then there should be scripture dealing with it? Are you serious? Show me the scripture that abolishes slavery or demonstrates antiseptics. There are any number of truths not particularly set out in the Bible, but which because they can be reasoned and demonstrated to be true are not lessened by that omission...some are even "self evident."

You demonstrate yourself to be little more than another form of legalist, and a hypocritical one at that given that you decry parroting on the one hand but insist upon it on the other. Which thought gives you pause, that God is just or that the law which serves justice must then serve His desire? His concern for justice was demonstrated amply enough by Ninevah.

And, please, continue to say what you are going to say before you say it. That so turns me on! ... , ... You know, smart and chatty men are ... so ... so ... feminine ... ! ... (!) ( ... Shhh...ellllll...i.i.i.i.i ... )

Well, that's about as lucid as any other point you've made. What are you fifteen and taking a break in between diary entries? :think: I almost admire the way you cut and paste so as to avoid any particular point or argument made which is beyond your ability to counter, even if it makes this feel more and more like a Socratic exercise.

 

[beloved57]

God creates all men equally from the same clay but not all have equal destiny, God has decreed some to eternal bliss and the rest to eternal woe and misery, It is the Lords doings...

 

[whisperingwillows]

When speaking of creating all mankind equal we need to look at the very first creation, not the birth of mankind after the fall. The inequality is due to sin that is between man and woman and between races. Doesn't make treating folks as unequals "right"

Secondly us (Christians) who are in heaven will have different levels of "ruling with Christ" not because we were created by God "inequal" but because of the work we do here on earth. It is by grace we are saved, but it is by works that we earn our crowns.

Brandy

In response to...

There is no Scripture which says God "created" all men equal.

Rather, there is much Scripture to show how He created inequality amongst mankind. A fine example of this is to compare the creation of King David in Psalm 51:5 and John the Baptiser in Luke 1:5-17.

Another is the comparison between Isaac and Ishmael in Genesis 16. Jacob and Esau in Genesis 25 are another example.

Even in Heaven where humans are in their recreated state of being reflecting their glorified nature, Jesus identifies in Matthew 5:19 a hierarchy of "least" and "greatest."

This notion of created "equality" is merely a human contrivance.

Shelli.

 

[Mystery]

It is by grace we are saved, but it is by works that we earn our crowns.

Verse?

 

[whisperingwillows]

OK, I am cheating here.....(cut and paste) I have my bible out and was trying to find exact verses, which I am hardly any good at the memorizing stuff. Anyway, I studied this a while ago, I googled "Judgement seat of Christ" and here is a good website that lists all the verses,

http://www.gotquestions.org/judgment-seat-Christ.html

Question: "What is the Judgment Seat of Christ / Bema Seat of Christ?"

Answer: Romans 14:10-12 says, “For we will all stand before God’s judgment seat…so then, each of us will give an account of himself to God.” 2 Corinthians 5:10 tells us, “For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive what is due him for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.” In the context of both Scriptures, it is clear that they are referring to Christians, not unbelievers. The Judgment Seat of Christ, therefore, involves believers giving an account of their lives to Christ. The Judgment Seat of Christ does not determine salvation; that was determined by Christ’s sacrifice on our behalf (1 John 2:2), and our faith in Him (John 3:16). All of our sins are forgiven and we will never be condemned for them (Romans 8:1). We should not look at the Judgment Seat of Christ as God judging our sins, but rather as God rewarding us for our lives. Yes, as the Scriptures say, we will have to give an account of our lives. Part of this is surely answering for the sins we committed. However, that is not going to be the primary focus of the Judgment Seat of Christ.

At the Judgment Seat of Christ, believers are rewarded based on how faithfully they served Christ (1 Corinthians 9:4-27; 2 Timothy 2:5). The things we will likely be judged on are how well we obeyed the Great Commission (Matthew 28:18-20), how victorious we were over sin (Romans 6:1-4), how well we controlled our tongue (James 3:1-9), etc. The Bible speaks of believers receiving crowns for different things based on how faithfully they served Christ (1 Corinthians 9:4-27; 2 Timothy 2:5). The various crowns are described in 2 Timothy 2:5; 2 Timothy 4:8; James 1:12; 1 Peter 5:4; and Revelation 2:10. James 1:12 is a good summary of how we should think about the Judgment Seat of Christ, “Blessed is the man who perseveres under trial, because when he has stood the test, he will receive the crown of life that God has promised to those who love Him.”
Recommended Resource: Your Eternal Reward: Triumph & Tears at the Judgment Seat of Christ by Erwin Lutzer.

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In response to....

Verse?

 

[Shelli]

I think Jefferson is quite beyond your blessing, but I'm sure he would appreciate your sincerity as much as your--let's call it argument...

I find myself similarly encouraged by your improved usage and spelling, though I’m reasonably certain that extra 't' in ability wasn't mine. :squint: And to say I know a thing because it can be reasoned is the antithesis of your restatement. One can be demonstrated the other is a declaration which requires only an utterance.

If American justice rests upon equality (before the law) then there should be scripture dealing with it? Are you serious? Show me the scripture that abolishes slavery or demonstrates antiseptics. There are any number of truths not particularly set out in the Bible, but which because they can be reasoned and demonstrated to be true are not lessened by that omission...some are even "self evident."

You demonstrate yourself to be little more than another form of legalist, and a hypocritical one at that given that you decry parroting on the one hand but insist upon it on the other. Which thought gives you pause, that God is just or that the law which serves justice must then serve His desire? His concern for justice was demonstrated amply enough by Ninevah.

Well, that's about as lucid as any other point you've made. What are you fifteen and taking a break in between diary entries? :think: I almost admire the way you cut and paste so as to avoid any particular point or argument made which is beyond your ability to counter, even if it makes this feel more and more like a Socratic exercise.

Yes, human mental reasoning from God is created by declaration, your intuitive sense of rightness is merely an utterance, but how you necessarily link them is the strangeness between the two. Need a little more help on identifying circular reasoning? I am sure you could pick it up quickly if you wanted to submit, kind of like a feckle woman would decide to submit, or course. Your sensitive feelings are just as important as any woman's. (Did you find the missing letter above ... ?)

How are "self evident truths" verified, counselor? Is such reasoning not a favored technique of tyrants, that of "self" justified declarations? Are you gullible for that, or just thinly cognizant about the nature of arbitrary statements dressed up as axioms? (Did you find the extra "r" above?)

Ninevah was an example, or was an exception ... ? I will let you decide for yourself, since women and feminized men are sensitized to feel they must be smartly autonomous. Both take pride in verbal skills. And, both compulsively turn issue based discussions into personal discussions. You were the first to do so in this thread.

Apparently, you are less than busy in your field, being on the web here so much sharing your intuitive skills. And, I can imagine why. People avoid bossy sounding little guys. They are so effete.

Shelli.

 

[Town Heretic]

Yes, human mental reasoning from God is created by declaration, your intuitive sense of rightness is merely an utterance, but how you necessarily link them is the strangeness between the two.

Mental reasoning? It would perhaps be helpful for you to utilize your working vocabulary. Certainly it would make already tiresome work easier for those of us who are attempting to find the logic within your arguments.

Need a little more help on identifying circular reasoning? I am sure you could pick it up quickly if you wanted to submit, kind of like a feckle woman would decide to submit, or course. Your sensitive feelings are just as important as any woman's. (Did you find the missing letter above ... ?)

Translation: I cannot refute you in parts, so I will instead offer insult on the whole. Did you mean fickle? Feckless would better suit the nature of your comments. And this apparent obsession with my sexuality is only embarrassing one of us (a hint: it isn’t me).

How are "self evident truths" verified, counselor? Is such reasoning not a favored technique of tyrants, that of "self" justified declarations? Are you gullible for that, or just thinly cognizant about the nature of arbitrary statements dressed up as axioms? (Did you find the extra "r" above?)

My but you’re sensitive. Intellectual adequacy issues perhaps? Understandable.

Ninevah was an example, or was an exception ... ? I will let you decide for yourself, since women and feminized men are sensitized to feel they must be smartly autonomous. Both take pride in verbal skills. And, both compulsively turn issue based discussions into personal discussions. You were the first to do so in this thread.

No, and unlike you I both asserted and demonstrated your error on this point. Given that you’ve addressed none of my substantive points of contention you are, in any event, hardly in the position to worry that detail at present.

Apparently, you are less than busy in your field, being on the web here so much sharing your intuitive skills. And, I can imagine why. People avoid bossy sounding little guys. They are so effete.

I actually retired from active practice and at an age when most of my contemporaries are still a few decades from that consideration. So your surmise is as adequate as your argument is compelling…If by bossy you mean rational, I take your point. Your last bit was funny…for the record, I stand around 6’ 3” so even though you meant it as an insult I have to admit it was interesting being called little. That’s a first.

And how is that 10th grade poetry class working out? Tell your teacher I think you show real promise for purple prose.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

There is no Scripture which says God "created" all men equal.

Rather, there is much Scripture to show how He created inequality amongst mankind. A fine example of this is to compare the creation of King David in Psalm 51:5 and John the Baptiser in Luke 1:5-17.

Another is the comparison between Isaac and Ishmael in Genesis 16. Jacob and Esau in Genesis 25 are another example.

Even in Heaven where humans are in their recreated state of being reflecting their glorified nature, Jesus identifies in Matthew 5:19 a hierarchy of "least" and "greatest."

This notion of created "equality" is merely a human contrivance.

Shelli.

or demonic, from hasatan, from the pit of the father of lies.

 

[14400]

There is no Scripture which says God "created" all men equal.

Rather, there is much Scripture to show how He created inequality amongst mankind. A fine example of this is to compare the creation of King David in Psalm 51:5 and John the Baptiser in Luke 1:5-17.

Another is the comparison between Isaac and Ishmael in Genesis 16. Jacob and Esau in Genesis 25 are another example.

Even in Heaven where humans are in their recreated state of being reflecting their glorified nature, Jesus identifies in Matthew 5:19 a hierarchy of "least" and "greatest."

This notion of created "equality" is merely a human contrivance.

Shelli.

YOU SAID: "There is no Scripture which says God "created" all men equal. "


This is not true.

Look to GENESIS 2:17

17.) But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.


NOTICE THAT GOD tells us "FOR IN THE DAY THAT THOU EATEST THEREOF"

God knew the end from the beginning and declared the end from the beginning.

So IN THE DAY when they ate of it, the curse and sin came unto every human being EQUALLY.

All men are equal in sin, and sin comes upon ALL MANKIND without respect of persons.


Because of sin, ALL FLESH corrupts without respect of persons.




In the standing of those elect to salvation, and those who are not, well then I can understand where it SEEMS unequal.

But even in that, all mankind is equal, for no man can TAKE eternal life, and no man can TAKE eternal DEATH.

God is the only one who makes live and the only one who kills or makes to die, so no one can know who will live eternally, only God knows the hearts and minds of man, therefore all mankind is equal in that respect as well, for GOD IS NOT A RESPECTER OF PERSONS...there is neither Jew nor Greek, man nor woman...so all mankind is equal in this respect as well.


peace

 

[Furchizedek]

Humans are equal in that we all have equal value to God, but we are extremely unequal when it comes to talents, personalities, etc.

eveningsky339 is right. That's the right answer.

Furchizedek

 

[beloved57]

All men by Nature are created sinners by God, but He created some sinners to have mercy upon for their sins [ vessels of mercy] and He created some sinners for wrath and destruction[vessels of wrath] for their sins.

 

[Shelli]

Well, at least you are using a few different words, and slightly longer sentences, to parrot what you have been taught by someone authoritatively patriotic. Bless their wonderful heart.

Those English assignments at least helped your confidence. But, your circular reasoning remains unabated. "I know this is right by that faculty which God granted men, the abiltity to reason." Just rephrase that as, "I know because God grants me to know."

Can you insert into this circular little notion any Scripture which states men are created equal? How about some Scripture regarding the "prima facie" part of equality inherent within justice? ( ... or, is it justice inherent within equality ... ? ... ) If it is so important before God, and if God established America as Godly, and if American justice rests upon equality, then there should be clear statements of it in Scripture. What does your well read mind detect in Scripture on this?

And, please, continue to say what you are going to say before you say it. That so turns me on! ... , ... You know, smart and chatty men are ... so ... so ... feminine ... ! ... (!)

( ... Shhh...ellllll...i.i.i.i.i ... )

Are you still particiapting ... ?

Thanks for chatting.

And remember, you can always share your favorite feelings with Shelli. Just do your best to keep it in first gear, and tap the brakes a little before you begin to sputter.

Lol.

Can you find Scripture in your favorite Bible which says God created all men equal as America's Founding Fathers spoke of such equality? Yes? No? Need to chat some more first ... ?

Lol.

 

[Shelli]

All men by Nature are created sinners by God, but He created some sinners to have mercy upon for their sins [ vessels of mercy] and He created some sinners for wrath and destruction[vessels of wrath] for their sins.

What does that have to do with how America's Founding Fathers spoke of equality in the creation of men?

 

[Guyver]

So.....you were totally negative toward God back in 2007....and nothing has changed.

Alrighty then. You've found a home for your poison.

Proverbs 23:6-7

PS. Nothing has changed except for you got sick of the place you have been keeping your poison, or got banned?