God Did Not "Create" All Men Equal.

Shelli

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There is no Scripture which says God "created" all men equal.

Rather, there is much Scripture to show how He created inequality amongst mankind. A fine example of this is to compare the creation of King David in Psalm 51:5 and John the Baptiser in Luke 1:5-17.

Another is the comparison between Isaac and Ishmael in Genesis 16. Jacob and Esau in Genesis 25 are another example.

Even in Heaven where humans are in their recreated state of being reflecting their glorified nature, Jesus identifies in Matthew 5:19 a hierarchy of "least" and "greatest."

This notion of created "equality" is merely a human contrivance.

Shelli.
 

Shelli

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It depends on what you mean by equal.

I do not make definitions for English language words, as Webster's Dictionary is used to establish, so it does not "depend" on what I say or "mean."

"equal adj. 1. of the same quantity, size, value, etc. 2. having the same rights, ability, rank, etc. 3. evenly proportioned 4. having the necessary ability, strength, etc."

Humans at their inception of existence and at birth can have within themselves widely varying amounts of the above characteristics. There is no Scripture which specifically states all humans have the same value before God.

Another example is the inequality created between men and women. Their redeemed status in Christ is indeed apart from this inequality, but they are unequal at their birth. I Cor. 11:9 specifically identifies this created inequality.

II Peter 2:12 speaks of certain people "made to be taken and destroyed."

Shelli.
 

Shelli

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He wasn't talking about a definition. He was talking about perception.

Wonderful analysis, Adam,

Did you perhaps ask him what he was talking about ... ?

Should English speaking peoples, even Christians, use the definitions from Webster to standardize their perception? I do, and that is why I quoted Webster's Dictionary. Let's precede from here with that understanding, alright ... ?

This is so excellent for you to cooperate with, rather than to split little hairs of "perception."

Shelli.
 

Real Sorceror

New member
Ok, I'll bite. What do you mean by "equal"? Does God view some of his creations in a better light than others? Where certain people created for a specific purpose or role? Are you referring to some racial or cultural difference?
 

eveningsky339

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Humans are equal in that we all have equal value to God, but we are extremely unequal when it comes to talents, personalities, etc.
 

Town Heretic

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There is no Scripture which says God "created" all men equal.

Right, that idea was first popularly expressed by Thomas Jefferson in the Declaration of Independence:

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness."

Rather, there is much Scripture to show how He created inequality amongst mankind. A fine example of this is to compare the creation of King David in Psalm 51:5 and John the Baptiser in Luke 1:5-17.

Does anyone really need scripture to understand that all men aren't literally equal? Use of the word average alone encompasses that concept independent of divine revelation...the idea contained in that phrase was one of equality under the law. That is, no man is born with a greater right than another to justice, that all men are subject to and protected equally by a just law. It was a statement against the root of tyranny, the notion that some men by right of birth might deny others the same freedoms and protections they enjoyed.

This notion of created "equality" is merely a human contrivance.

So is penicillin. There appears to be a quality of the dismissive about your statement here, but you might want to reconsider. As God is ultimately just so any system founded on the principle of guaranteeing the right to justice is designed to serve His desire.
 

Psalmist

Blessed is the man that......
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Equal or not equal?

Equal or not equal?

:think:


God Did Not "Create" All Men Equal.

True.

Some are taller than others.




- 30 -​

:scripto:. . Psalmist
 

Shelli

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Humans are equal in that we all have equal value to God, but we are extremely unequal when it comes to talents, personalities, etc.

Is there Scripture which says all people have "equal value" when they are born? My post here said nothing about being equal before God, but specifically stated, "Not all men are created equal."

Love to hear your comments, but perhaps you could stick to the thread topic.

Shelli.
 

Real Sorceror

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Is there Scripture which says all people have "equal value" when they are born? My post here said nothing about being equal before God, but specifically stated, "Not all men are created equal."

Love to hear your comments, but perhaps you could stick to the thread topic.

Shelli.
Obviously, everyone is born genetically different, and will be raised differently, and will have different life experiences than everyone else. If thats what you're referring to, then "duh".

Also, are you suggesting that God actually creates each individual person?
 

Shelli

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Right, that idea was first popularly expressed by Thomas Jefferson in the Declaration of Independence:

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness."



Does anyone really need scripture to understand that all men aren't literally equal? Use of the word average alone encompasses that concept independent of divine revelation...the idea contained in that phrase was one of equality under the law. That is, no man is born with a greater right than another to justice, that all men are subject to and protected equally by a just law. It was a statement against the root of tyranny, the notion that some men by right of birth might deny others the same freedoms and protections they enjoyed.



So is penicillin. There appears to be a quality of the dismissive about your statement here, but you might want to reconsider. As God is ultimately just so any system founded on the principle of guaranteeing the right to justice is designed to serve His desire.

Justice does not require equality. Scripture neither says nor demonstrates such a notion. The God of Justice will mete differing justices according to each man's deeds for whoever is judged by Him.

Some men are born with more rights than others. It happens every day. My children have rights to my property and more favor from me than other children. Felons lose their rights to various civil liberities. Elected officials and judges have greater freedoms and rights than the governed. People with enough money have a right to extensive judicial counsel more than a public defender would provide. A prince in his father's kingdom, today as in Saudi Arabia, has far more rights than nonroyalty in his realm. Today in America, welfare recipients have special rights. AIDS infected people have special rights. Joseph in Egypt and Daniel in Persia had far more rights and freedom than anyone except the kings they served, God said nothing to the contrary, and neither Joseph nor Daniel resisted that system. Is there need for more examples of rightfully being unequal under the law?

By the way, God never declared that we have "Inalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." The existence of human inequality does not necessarily mean tyranny will occur. In fact, God used great inequalities to govern His chosen people, the Jews, under the Prophets and Kings. We cannot change the significance of such an example regardless of any special sounding phraseology within the founding papers of America.

You might want to reconsider turning this issue related discussion into a personal exchange by referencing me personally with lame advice. Looking forward to helping any more conceptual or informational needs. Thanks.

Please remember that the original issue of this thread was being "created" with unequal rights, and not the attainment of inequality by human effort. That is why I put that word in parentheses.

Shelli.
 

Town Heretic

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Justice does not require equality.
Yes, it does. A law which does not afford all men equal standing is unjust prima facie.
Scripture neither says nor demonstrates such a notion. The God of Justice will mete differing justices according to each man's deeds for whoever is judged by Him.
Scripture doesn’t speak of the need for antibiotics either. That’s a silly point. And God may mete out different punishment, but not justice, which is the standard for judgment and punishment.
Some men are born with more rights than others. It happens every day. My children have rights to my property and more favor from me than other children. Felons lose their rights to various civil liberities. Elected officials and judges have greater freedoms and rights than the governed.
You need a good government class…no, possessions are not rights. Property is not a right, though you have the right to own property. And felons are not born so.
People with enough money have a right to extensive judicial counsel more than a public defender would provide.
Now you’re confusing a right with ability. The ability to retain more effective counsel is not a right. The right would be to have counsel in the first place.
A prince in his father's kingdom, today as in Saudi Arabia, has far more rights than nonroyalty in his realm.
Probably true. And if so to the extent that it is so it is unjust.
By the way, God never declared that we have "Inalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness."
As I fully set out by attribution and quotation…God never argued for democracy either. Do you want a monarchy? And how do you know that God, who according to Romans is the seat of governmental authority, didn't inspire Jefferson to write those very words which set a new course for human governing?
The existence of human inequality does not necessarily mean tyranny will occur.
Under the law it does. The moment you have inequality there you have injustice and that is a very real form of tyranny.
You might want to reconsider turning this issue related discussion into a personal exchange by referencing me personally with lame advice. Looking forward to helping any more conceptual or informational needs. Thanks.
Where did I write that? I don’t remember putting that in…I just read my post and I don’t see it. But if an exchange of ideas isn’t personal then you aren’t putting enough into it.
Please remember that the original issue of this thread was being "created" with unequal rights, and not the attainment of inequality by human effort. That is why I put that word in parentheses.
Right. And Jefferson didn’t believe that men ‘attained’ those rights by an act of man, but that each man was born with them, that other men through tyranny abrogated what was naturally the right of each of us, that these rights were given us by our creator. But I’d suggest that before we can discuss the validity of a proposition we need to agree on the terms we use. As of this moment your working definition of what constitutes a right for the purpose of discussion is, to be charitable, broad.
 

patman

Active member
I am sure you are a very special little sorceror.

And, you will disbelieve in God until one moment after your death. Have a nice eternity in Hell, Sweetie.

Your friend, Shelli.

Don't sound so happy about that or anything... I, also, didn't agree with your previous post.

Justice has a common denominator that makes us all equals. Even though one person owns a house, and another owns a shoe box each are equally defined as owners even though the value of their possessions are not equal. Yet, God does not Judge us based on what we have, but who we are and by how far we intentionally fall away from him.
 
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