ECT Gifts of the Spirit

oatmeal

Well-known member
That is what I quoted silly...yet, you need context of the whole word of God to know whom was cut off and whom wasnt.

I did not see context where someone is cut off.

You'll have to point that out.

Romans 10:9-10 Thou? who is thou? is there a list of cut off's?

But, wasn't I agreeing with you?

Am I getting so jaded by the ungodly banter in this forum that I have forgotten Ephesians 4:32?

The anonymity of this forum is a great place to hide behind and say things that you wouldn't say if face to face with some one.

A lot of the name calling would cease if this was done face to face.

Don't you think?
 

Totton Linnet

New member
Silver Subscriber
I sneer at pretenders, God can heal if thats His will, but that is no longer through a man.
The track record (they have none) of those who claim the pentecostal signs, and wonders isn't to good, words have little meaning when the proof is never presented.
The same thing seen among the charismatic churches can be found in other religions, and paganism. The real healing power that took place in the acts period was not induced hypnotic trickery, or falsh spiritual manifestation that passes for signs and wonders today. Blind eyes from birth where opened, the dead raised, leprosy healed, thats what should be happening if one claims the pentecostal period for today.

And it happened among all believers, not just some over in another land.

Our focus is Colossians 3:1-4, not on the earthly kingdom that Israel was looking for Acts 1:6, and was being offered with signs and wonders to show it was from God, Acts 2:11, 2:22.

*
The Holy Spirit will always witness to truth and that witness is what we recieve, there is a GLUT of evidence. And there have been some GLORIOUS ministries in Britain and in America.
 

Totton Linnet

New member
Silver Subscriber
After I had a powerful revelation of the love of God I went for a walk in the countryside one day and the anointing on me was so strong I wanted to worship God beyond what I was physically able. For the first time I decided to speak gibberish, and then I laughed at it, but when I went to worship in English the flood gates opened in my innermost being and a heavenly language flowed out.

Now I pray and worship in tongues all the time, its completely natural to me.
*
Hallelujah
 

Ryan Collins

New member
Yes but the message of 1 Cor.13 is that these things will be full after Christs return and no longer in part.

It is only the partiallness which is done away.

LA.

I believe that they will cease, as 1 Cor. 13:8-9 states. For when the parousia of Christ occurs, what need is there for the spiritual gifts?
 

Lazy afternoon

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
I believe that they will cease, as 1 Cor. 13:8-9 states. For when the parousia of Christ occurs, what need is there for the spiritual gifts?

You do not understand.

The gifts are only partial of the complete.

Knowedge will be full, not done away.

A gift (manifestation) is from the motivation of the giver of gifts and there is nothing of the giver which will be done away.

The original manifestation of tongues in Acts 2 shows that the saints in the coming reign over the nations will speak to them all in their own languages .

Christ now speaks to us in English because we understand English and not in Hebrew as some think important.

LA.
 

Lazy afternoon

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
So then why does Paul use "cease" in his discourse on the spiritual gifts?

Because people were glorying in the gifts. Giftedness will cease, but motivation of Christs powers through love will not be done away.


1Co 13:8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.

Knowledge and language will not be done away, only the expression of them in gifts will be.

1Co 13:9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
1Co 13:10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
1Co 13:11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
1Co 13:12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
1Co 13:13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

LA.
 

Ryan Collins

New member
You do not understand.

The gifts are only partial of the complete.

Knowedge will be full, not done away.

A gift (manifestation) is from the motivation of the giver of gifts and there is nothing of the giver which will be done away.

The original manifestation of tongues in Acts 2 shows that the saints in the coming reign over the nations will speak to them all in their own languages .

Christ now speaks to us in English because we understand English and not in Hebrew as some think important.

LA.
I understand that knowledge will be full. We will no longer see a reflection in a mirror, we shall see face to face. But what is the purpose of the gifts? Paul writes in Ephesians 4:12, "to equip his people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining o the whole measure of the fullness of God."

The spiritual gifts are for this very purpose until the parousia of Christ. After this, what need is there for the spiritual gifts? As you said, all knowledge will be made complete and all the partial will be no longer be partial. There will be no need for prophecy after the parousia, nor will there be any need for tongues. As Paul says in 1 Corinthians 13:8-10 says: "Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. For we know in part and we prophesy in part, but when the completeness comes, what is in part disappears."

All that is partial will disappear--all will cease.
 

Lazy afternoon

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
I understand that knowledge will be full. We will no longer see a reflection in a mirror, we shall see face to face. But what is the purpose of the gifts? Paul writes in Ephesians 4:12, "to equip his people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining o the whole measure of the fullness of God."

The spiritual gifts are for this very purpose until the parousia of Christ. After this, what need is there for the spiritual gifts? As you said, all knowledge will be made complete and all the partial will be no longer be partial. There will be no need for prophecy after the parousia, nor will there be any need for tongues. As Paul says in 1 Corinthians 13:8-10 says: "Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. For we know in part and we prophesy in part, but when the completeness comes, what is in part disappears."

All that is partial will disappear--all will cease.


Ok ,You are speaking from your view instead of looking for what I am showing you in what I wrote and considering it.

LA.
 

Ryan Collins

New member
Then who is filling all those seats and his bank account? Baptists?
A minority of the 250+ million Pentecostals around the globe (and that is just the numbers for Pentecostalism, not other denominations/doctrinal persuasions).

And if you incorporate Charismatics into the Pentecostalism equation, then you have over 500+ million people. So...a minority.
 

graceandpeace

New member
Quote:
Originally Posted by graceandpeace
That is what I quoted silly...yet, you need context of the whole word of God to know whom was cut off and whom wasnt.


I did not see context where someone is cut off.

You'll have to point that out.

Romans 10:9-10 Thou? who is thou? is there a list of cut off's?

But, wasn't I agreeing with you?

Am I getting so jaded by the ungodly banter in this forum that I have forgotten Ephesians 4:32?

The anonymity of this forum is a great place to hide behind and say things that you wouldn't say if face to face with some one.

A lot of the name calling would cease if this was done face to face.

Don't you think?

Im sorry, Oatmeal,...I must of misread you..that too, is easy to do on here.
I am going to go try to find the original post and see where I misunderstood.

:doh:
 

graceandpeace

New member
Oatmeal, found it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by graceandpeace
We are fellowheirs with them...(Israel)

Eph 3:5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

Eph 3:6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

So, you are wrongly reading it; for it is ONLY those whom were cut off that we are to bring to jealousy...God never cut off the whole nation, silly.

Until you rightly divide the word of God you are never going to understand the TRUE mystery.

You madists make me giggle.

Oatmeal:

Grace and peace,

Ephesians 3:6 is what the great mystery is. Nothing else.

oatmeal


Yes, what did it say? That we are of the SAME BODY; the bold.

Same body as this, which included those whom were NOT cut off, due to unbeleif:



Rom 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, [of] the tribe of Benjamin.

Paul, himself was of the tribe of Israel, so he is saying, that not all Israel was cut off; as we see further through this text, to which, gentiles are not made in the same body as; by the same faith:

Rom 11:2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,


Rom 11:3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.


Rom 11:4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to [the image of] Baal.

So, we see that there was a remnant, and it is this remnant that new covenant saints are added to; whether jew or greek; but, it went to the jew first; as written...(the new covenant in His shed blood)

Rom 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

This is to whom the first jew was added and later the gentiles that would believe.

Rom 11:6 And if by grace, then [is it] no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if [it be] of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.


Rom 11:7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded

The elect of old covenant Israel did obtain it; and we were added to them, but, the jew first, as written; they were not cut off; because they were IN FAITH; whereas the rest were blinded and in unbelief.

Rom 11:8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day.

Who< all? NOPE..just those whom were not of the remnant;elect...so context is everything in the word of God.

Rom 11:9 And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them:

David was among the remnant; elect that walked by faith; we are added to his group...(the remnant that walked by faith back then.)

Rom 11:10 Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.


Rom 11:11 ¶ I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but [rather] through their fall salvation [is come] unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

It was Israel of the old covenant that fell; to which is whom will be shown jealousy...not Israel of this side of the cross...man sure does know how to twist the word of God.

Rom 11:12 Now if the fall of them [be] the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?


Rom 11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:


Rom 11:14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation [them which are] my flesh, and might save some of them.


Rom 11:15 For if the casting away of them [be] the reconciling of the world, what [shall] the receiving [of them be], but life from the dead?


Rom 11:16 For if the firstfruit [be] holy, the lump [is] also [holy]: and if the root [be] holy, so [are] the branches.


Rom 11:17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

Only those whom were in unbelief during the old covenant were cut off; Paul said 'we' are added to those whom were the remnant; that walked by faith; and later on those whom were cut off can be grafted back on; but it is only speaking of those whom fell during the old covenant; because the day of salvation was not made available to everyone in the old covenant, for God was using Israel of the flesh to show all mankind as condemned by the law;...and, they can be grafted back on, in the days to come; but, this is not speaking of those whom were in unbelief from this side of the new covenant because God said He winked at their sin from that day; but NOW demands ALL men to repent. The day of salvation has come..this is why MAD is such a baloney doctrine; it makes God out to be a liar. There is NO such thing as salvation outside of the ONE gospel.


Rom 11:18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.


Rom 11:19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.


Rom 11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:


Rom 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, [take heed] lest he also spare not thee.


Rom 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in [his] goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.


Rom 11:23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.

(only those whom fell in the wilderness, through unbelief; because they were being used by God to show all mankind condemned by the law; God already knew they would not be able to keep the law perfectly; but those whom walked by faith did; because in faith there is no condemnation, or sin imputed..and your sin is covered..as all those whom walked by faith knew; even as David that wrote of it...even as Paul quoted in the book of Romans.)


Rom 11:24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural [branches], be graffed into their own olive tree?


Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

the blindness was only in part...as written. We were added to those whom were the remnant that walked by faith; the same faith we hold to, today...as Paul said.


Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:


In the future, those fleshly israelites that were used by God to show all mankind condemned by the law can be grafted back in....if they repent and believe the ONE gospel that saves, but they will come into the same vine; Christ; not a fleshly nation; the flesh never profited anything with God, as also written.

Rom 11:27 For this [is] my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.


Rom 11:28 As concerning the gospel, [they are] enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, [they are] beloved for the fathers' sakes.


Rom 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God [are] without repentance.

We have to understand that during that time, God was using them to show all mankind as condemned by the law; and they had no chance at salvation. God called a remnant out of them, and they knew the gospel....and, we are added to them...as written. NO one today has an excuse; the day of salvation has come, through the new and LIVING way; the new covenant in Jesus shed blood.

Rom 11:30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:


Rom 11:31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.


Rom 11:32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.


Rom 11:33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable [are] his judgments, and his ways past finding out!


Rom 11:34 For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor?


Rom 11:35 Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?


Rom 11:36 For of him, and through him, and to him, [are] all things: to whom [be] glory for ever. Amen


Rightly dividing the word of God is a must. God is not mocked..NOW all must repent and be saved.

A teaching that would teach a fleshly jew that they can be saved by some other fashion, is heresy, and God is not pleased with the teachings of men.
 

john w

New member
Hall of Fame
John,

You are the thief and robber.

Christ took the Kingdom away from the Jews and gave it to a nation who would bring forth the fruits of it, but you want to take it away from the new nation in Christ of both Jew and Gentile and give it back to the Jews.

God destroyed the sinners of the old nations of Judah and Israel and He will destroy the sinners of the churches (like you) as well.

LA.

Nope-you made that up, and are copying me. "..little flock.......given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof....."=believing Israel-not the boc

Prophecy

vs.

Mystery


"the new nation in Christ"

You made that up. The boc is never described as a nation.

"He will destroy the sinners of the churches (like you) as well."-LA Lost

Nope-I have the righteousness of God in Christ-permanently. I am in Him, and He is in me. He will not destroy His own body. Poor you. Hate that, don't you LA ben Cain? Yes, you do.

Get saved.
 

Lon

Well-known member
Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are obvious:
Gal 5:20 hostilities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish rivalries, dissensions, factions....
Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
Gal 5:23 gentleness, and self-control. Against such things there is no law.
 
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