Far Better To Build Immune System than Count on Vaccines

marke

Well-known member
This is faulty logic that I am firmly convinced at this point is entirely intentional.

Because natural immunity is more effective than the vaccine, doesn't mean that the vaccine is ineffective, which Marke here is clearly implying.
The Pfizer vaccine is about 90% effective in preventing symptomatic COVID19 (i.e. that number includes all known variants). In fact, the vaccines probably are affording the public herd immunity at this point against everything COVID except the Delta variant which accounts for something like 98-99% of new cases in the United States and England. All the other variants are all but gone - thanks to the Phizer, Moderna and Johson and Johnson vaccines as well as natural immunity. The vast majority of new cases are people who did not get the vaccine. 99.5% of all those who have died of COVID since January have been unvaccinated.


According to an analysis carried out by Public Health England, two doses of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine appeared to be about 88 percent effective against symptomatic disease and 96 percent effective against hospitalization with the Delta variant.​
The same study suggested that the vaccine was approximately 80 percent effective against preventing infection from the Delta variant. Scientists came to this conclusion after analyzing 14,019 people with an infection, 166 of whom were hospitalized, in England.​
Vaccines had a protective effect against infections with Delta and hospital cases were milder, the study found.​
Public Health England also shared real-world data in May that solidified the importance of having a second dose of COVID-19 vaccine. The analysis suggested that a single dose of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine offered only about 33 percent protection against symptomatic disease.​
This was a reduction from the previous 50 percent effectiveness estimated against the alpha variant.​
The study also found that the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine was 88 percent effective against the Delta variant 2 weeks after the second dose.​
If the pharmaceutical companies can prove their shots do not harm or kill anyone then why are they not offering the proof?
 

way 2 go

Well-known member
link

Comparing SARS-CoV-2 natural immunity to vaccine-induced immunity: reinfections versus breakthrough infections​



Results SARS-CoV-2-naïve vaccinees had a 13.06-fold (95% CI, 8.08 to 21.11) increased risk for breakthrough infection with the Delta variant compared to those previously infected, when the first event (infection or vaccination) occurred during January and February of 2021. The increased risk was significant (P<0.001) for symptomatic disease as well. When allowing the infection to occur at any time before vaccination (from March 2020 to February 2021), evidence of waning natural immunity was demonstrated, though SARS-CoV-2 naïve vaccinees had a 5.96-fold (95% CI, 4.85 to 7.33) increased risk for breakthrough infection and a 7.13-fold (95% CI, 5.51 to 9.21) increased risk for symptomatic disease. SARS-CoV-2-naïve vaccinees were also at a greater risk for COVID-19-related-hospitalizations compared to those that were previously infected.


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link
Put another way, vaccinated individuals were 27 times more likely to get a symptomatic COVID infection than those with natural immunity from COVID.


A Death Blow to Vaccine Passports?


The findings come as many governments around the world are demanding citizens acquire “vaccine passports” to travel. New York City, France, and the Canadian provinces of Quebec and British Columbia are among those who have recently embraced vaccine passports.
...
Nor is the study out of Israel a one-off. Media reports show that no fewer than 15 academic studies have found that natural immunity offers immense protection from COVID-19.

Moreover, CDC research shows that vaccinated individuals still get infected with COVID-19 and carry just as much of the virus in their throat and nasal passage as unvaccinated individuals


“High viral loads suggest an increased risk of transmission and raised concern that, unlike with other variants, vaccinated people infected with Delta can transmit the virus,” CDC Rochelle Director Walensky noted following a Cape Cod outbreak that included mostly vaccinated individuals.

These data suggest that vaccinated individuals are still spreading the virus much like unvaccinated individuals.


 

chair

Well-known member
the vax and masks are not working in Israel

View attachment 1664
Two things have happened:
1. The vaccine's effectiveness has dropped over time. This is being countered by means of a third "booster" vaccination.
2. The Delta variant spreads much faster than earlier variants

As I have posted in the past, the plain fact is that you are much less likely to get seriously ill if you are vaccinated. By a factor of about 15. See below.

There are two huge advantages to getting vaccinated rather than waiting for natural immunity by getting infected:
1. You are much less likely to get seriously ill or die.
2. You won't infect others while developing your immunity.

This is really a no-brainer.

Chair



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marke

Well-known member
Two things have happened:
1. The vaccine's effectiveness has dropped over time. This is being countered by means of a third "booster" vaccination.
2. The Delta variant spreads much faster than earlier variants

As I have posted in the past, the plain fact is that you are much less likely to get seriously ill if you are vaccinated. By a factor of about 15. See below.

There are two huge advantages to getting vaccinated rather than waiting for natural immunity by getting infected:
1. You are much less likely to get seriously ill or die.
2. You won't infect others while developing your immunity.

This is really a no-brainer.

Chair



View attachment 1665
There is a danger that not only does the vaccine lose its effectiveness over time, but the fact that it alters the way the human body fights disease we may find that additional boosters may become necessary for life.
 

chair

Well-known member
There is a danger that not only does the vaccine lose its effectiveness over time, but the fact that it alters the way the human body fights disease we may find that additional boosters may become necessary for life.
It helps the human body fight disease, at far lower risk than actually getting the disease.. What exactly is the problem with that?
 

ok doser

Well-known member

chair

Well-known member
Less effectively than natural immunity

That is still to be determined and will be playing out over the coming decades

for one thing the statement of certitude from people who have no reason to be certain.

1. We don't know that yet. People have gotten infected twice. Do you have statistics?
2. Right now, the vaccine is far far safer than getting infected. Billions have been vaccinated. So you are suggesting "don't take the vaccine, risk your life, because maybe, someday, they may find out some horrible side effect that we haven't noticed yet". An attitude that is killing people today, by the thousands.
3. There isn't 100% certainty with anything scientific. We only have statistics. In this case, the statistics are pretty darn clear.

All over the world, people are waiting in line, praying for vaccinations, and somehow, in the developed world, we find people who shrug it off, and make up all sorts of stories to convince themselves and others that they aren't safe, or don't work. Quite sad.
 

marke

Well-known member
1. We don't know that yet. People have gotten infected twice. Do you have statistics?
2. Right now, the vaccine is far far safer than getting infected. Billions have been vaccinated. So you are suggesting "don't take the vaccine, risk your life, because maybe, someday, they may find out some horrible side effect that we haven't noticed yet". An attitude that is killing people today, by the thousands.
3. There isn't 100% certainty with anything scientific. We only have statistics. In this case, the statistics are pretty darn clear.

All over the world, people are waiting in line, praying for vaccinations, and somehow, in the developed world, we find people who shrug it off, and make up all sorts of stories to convince themselves and others that they aren't safe, or don't work. Quite sad.
There are few if any reports of people getting sick with covid twice. Have you evidenced this yourself?
 

marke

Well-known member
1. We don't know that yet. People have gotten infected twice. Do you have statistics?
2. Right now, the vaccine is far far safer than getting infected. Billions have been vaccinated. So you are suggesting "don't take the vaccine, risk your life, because maybe, someday, they may find out some horrible side effect that we haven't noticed yet". An attitude that is killing people today, by the thousands.
3. There isn't 100% certainty with anything scientific. We only have statistics. In this case, the statistics are pretty darn clear.

All over the world, people are waiting in line, praying for vaccinations, and somehow, in the developed world, we find people who shrug it off, and make up all sorts of stories to convince themselves and others that they aren't safe, or don't work. Quite sad.
There is a real danger the covid shot may do irreparable damage to the human immune system. Claiming there is no risk of that is both ignorant and dishonest.

Vanden Bossche knows a thing or two about vaccines and is a self-declared pro-vaxxer. He is a seasoned vaccine developer (vaccinologist) with a track record with GSK Biologicals, Novartis Vaccines and Solvay Biologicals. He’s also worked with the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation’s Global Health Discovery team in Seattle as senior program officer and as senior Ebola program manager with the Global Alliance for Vaccines and Immunization in Geneva.
However, in early March, Vanden Bossche put out a call to the World Health Organization, supported by a 12-page document on a dedicated website especially set up to communicate his concerns. We responded with a 4,000-word article that tried to steer an objective line through conflicting streams of information and consider the implications of what appeared to be a whistleblower.

People Stand to Lose their Natural ‘Innate’ Immunity as a Consequence of the Meddling
His real worry though, or as he puts it, “beyond worried”, is that the humankind may severely damage it’s own, natural ‘innate’ immunity, because of the mass deployment of vaccination programs at this critical juncture. Our ‘innate’ immunity would be lost (a rich, variant-nonspecific, form of natural immunity).
It would also mean that vaccine-mediated protection would be lost.
 
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chair

Well-known member
There is a real danger the covid shot may do irreparable damage to the human immune system. Claiming there is no risk of that is both ignorant and dishonest.

Vanden Bossche knows a thing or two about vaccines and is a self-declared pro-vaxxer. He is a seasoned vaccine developer (vaccinologist) with a track record with GSK Biologicals, Novartis Vaccines and Solvay Biologicals. He’s also worked with the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation’s Global Health Discovery team in Seattle as senior program officer and as senior Ebola program manager with the Global Alliance for Vaccines and Immunization in Geneva.
However, in early March, Vanden Bossche put out a call to the World Health Organization, supported by a 12-page document on a dedicated website especially set up to communicate his concerns. We responded with a 4,000-word article that tried to steer an objective line through conflicting streams of information and consider the implications of what appeared to be a whistleblower.

People Stand to Lose their Natural ‘Innate’ Immunity as a Consequence of the Meddling
His real worry though, or as he puts it, “beyond worried”, is that the humankind may severely damage it’s own, natural ‘innate’ immunity, because of the mass deployment of vaccination programs at this critical juncture. Our ‘innate’ immunity would be lost (a rich, variant-nonspecific, form of natural immunity).
It would also mean that vaccine-mediated protection would be lost.
Ah the wonders of the internet. Confirmation bias at work!
 

chair

Well-known member
The covid shot does pose a far greater risk to young people than does the virus itself.
The risk remains tiny. Just that for the young, the risk of covid complications is also very small. And it depends on what you mean by "young people".

I gather that you agree that for the not-so young- the risk from the vaccine is far outweighed by its benefit.
 

marke

Well-known member
Ah the wonders of the internet. Confirmation bias at work!
The internet - a place to promote lying dogma and condemn truth. Fauci, for example, funded the development of covid and then lied about it. Damn the devil and his lying followers.
 

chair

Well-known member
Your article says reinfections are rare and it was not until August that the first reinfection was recorded. I would be more afraid of getting covid after being vaccinated than getting covid again after already having had it.
August of what year?
 
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