ECT Ezekiel 18:4 is proof that God doesn’t want all people to be saved.

[Lion.of.Judah]

1 Timothy 2:3-4
3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

2 Peter 3:9 - The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

Basically, the above Scripture has claimed that God wants all people to be saved; but this is ONLY true if they haven’t sinned, nor have they broken Jesus’s first or second commandment: Matthew 22:37-40, Mark 12:30-31, Luke 10:27.

However, once they have sinned by breaking His commandment God wants all those respective individuals concerned to perish, which is evidenced by Ezekiel 18:4.

God has instituted such a law, which reflects the desire of the policy maker:-

“The one who sins will die”.

Therefore, Ezekiel 18:4 is a law which serves to indicate the intentions of the policy maker; which implies that God does NOT want all people to be saved once they have sinned, or broken his commandment in Matthew 22:37-40, Mark 12:30-31 and Luke 10:27.

Therefore, God wants all people to be saved as long as they haven’t sinned by breaking his commandment; but this is no longer true once they have broken his commandment.

However, I know that some of you would disagree with what I have said, but wishful thinking itself doesn’t make you right, nor does it mean that this interpretation is false.

In actual fact, there is no way that this interpretation can be false, but it can only be correct, inerrant and infallible; since we are talking about Christ the Lion of Judah who is the Living Word of the Bible: John 1, 7:16, 10:30, 12:49, 50.

So you may well disagree, but what are you going to do about it?


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[JudgeRightly]

1 Timothy 2:3-4
3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

2 Peter 3:9 - The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

Basically, the above Scripture has claimed that God wants all people to be saved; but this is ONLY true if they haven’t sinned, nor have they broken Jesus’s first or second commandment: Matthew 22:37-40, Mark 12:30-31, Luke 10:27.

However, once they have sinned by breaking His commandment God wants all those respective individuals concerned to perish, which is evidenced by Ezekiel 18:4.

God has instituted such a law, which reflects the desire of the policy maker:-

“The one who sins will die”.

Therefore, Ezekiel 18:4 is a law which serves to indicate the intentions of the policy maker; which implies that God does NOT want all people to be saved once they have sinned, or broken his commandment in Matthew 22:37-40, Mark 12:30-31 and Luke 10:27.

Therefore, God wants all people to be saved as long as they haven’t sinned by breaking his commandment; but this is no longer true once they have broken his commandment.

However, I know that some of you would disagree with what I have said, but wishful thinking itself doesn’t make you right, nor does it mean that this interpretation is false.

In actual fact, there is no way that this interpretation can be false, but it can only be correct, inerrant and infallible; since we are talking about Christ the Lion of Judah who is the Living Word of the Bible: John 1, 7:16, 10:30, 12:49, 50.

So you may well disagree, but what are you going to do about it?


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These kinds of pretzels are what happens when one fails to rightly divide.

 

[Lion.of.Judah]

These kinds of pretzels are what happens when one fails to rightly divide.

Whatever, you still accept the basic premise that “God does NOT want all people to be saved if they have broken his commandment”, which is the whole point about the OP.


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[JudgeRightly]

Whatever, you still accept the basic premise that “God does NOT want all people to be saved if they have broken his commandment”, which is the whole point about the OP.

No, I don't agree with that premise, because that would be calling God a liar.

Or have you forgotten what Peter said?

But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance. - 2 Peter 3:8-9 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2Peter3:8-9&version=NKJV

 

[Lion.of.Judah]

No, I don't agree with that premise, because that would be calling God a liar.

Or have you forgotten what Peter said?

But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance. - 2 Peter 3:8-9 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2Peter3:8-9&version=NKJV

However, you are ALSO calling God a liar by attempting to refute (or ignore) the inference drawn from Ezekiel 18:4, which has clearly shown that God wants them to die if they have sinned.

Since the law has prescribed the death penalty it is indicative of the intentions of the lawmaker who is God; it is indicative of the heart and mind of God, and his desire concerning the fate of individuals who have sinned: Ezekiel 18:4.

The conjecture is so clear, obvious, and irrefutable.

Also, 2 Peter 3:8-9 is NOT absolutely true, but there are ***exceptions*** to the rule as clearly demonstrated by the law of Ezekiel 18:4 AND also by God’s destruction of the earth’s inhabitants in Isaiah 24:1 AND by his destruction of the Resurrected dead in the lake of fire in Revelation 20:15, 21:8.

Why would God destroy so many people unless he ***wanted*** to do it (but if he wants to destroy them then it is clearly false that 2 Peter 3:9 is ***always*** going to be true)?

Seriously, are you telling me that God would only ***reluctantly*** destroy them because he still wants all people to be saved?

Such an ‘argument’ would beggar belief, but it has no credibility whatsoever.

Since the following are mutually exclusive:-

(1) God wants all people to be saved.

(2) God wants to destroy most of the earth’s inhabitants AND also destroy the Resurrected dead at the Last Judgment in heaven.

1 and 2 cannot both be true at the same time; therefore, 2 Peter 3:9 cannot be absolutely true, since there are exceptions to the rule as demonstrated by the aforementioned.


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[genuineoriginal]

1 Timothy 2:3-4
3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

2 Peter 3:9 - The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

Basically, the above Scripture has claimed that God wants all people to be saved; but this is ONLY true if they haven’t sinned, nor have they broken Jesus’s first or second commandment: Matthew 22:37-40, Mark 12:30-31, Luke 10:27.

However, once they have sinned by breaking His commandment God wants all those respective individuals concerned to perish, which is evidenced by Ezekiel 18:4.

God has instituted such a law, which reflects the desire of the policy maker:-

“The one who sins will die”.

Therefore, Ezekiel 18:4 is a law which serves to indicate the intentions of the policy maker; which implies that God does NOT want all people to be saved once they have sinned, or broken his commandment in Matthew 22:37-40, Mark 12:30-31 and Luke 10:27.

Therefore, God wants all people to be saved as long as they haven’t sinned by breaking his commandment; but this is no longer true once they have broken his commandment.

You seem to have missed this part:

Ezekiel 18:21-22 21 But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die. 22 All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live.​

However, I know that some of you would disagree with what I have said, but wishful thinking itself doesn’t make you right, nor does it mean that this interpretation is false.

It is not wishful thinking that makes me right and means that your interpretation is false.
It is the scriptures that do that.

Ezekiel 18:27-28 27 Again, when the wicked man turneth away from his wickedness that he hath committed, and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul alive. 28 Because he considereth, and turneth away from all his transgressions that he hath committed, he shall surely live, he shall not die.​

 

[genuineoriginal]

However, you are ALSO calling God a liar by attempting to refute (or ignore) the inference drawn from Ezekiel 18:4, which has clearly shown that God wants them to die if they have sinned.

No, God does not want anyone to die because they have sinned.
God wants them to repent from their sin and live.

Ezekiel 18:23 23 Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord God: and not that he should return from his ways, and live?​

 

[Lion.of.Judah]

You seem to have missed this part:

Ezekiel 18:21-22 21 But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die. 22 All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live.​

It is not wishful thinking that makes me right and means that your interpretation is false.
It is the scriptures that do that.

Ezekiel 18:27-28 27 Again, when the wicked man turneth away from his wickedness that he hath committed, and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul alive. 28 Because he considereth, and turneth away from all his transgressions that he hath committed, he shall surely live, he shall not die.​

Which is refuted by other relevant Scripture in the Bible because the above citation is not the only thing which God allegedly promised; but God has said many other things which apparently ‘contradict’ this quote from the Bible.

Also, Ezekiel 18 in the Old Testament is specific reference to God’s people the Israelites, which nowadays include people of the new covenant who are allegedly the “Spiritual descendants of Abraham” in the Book of Romans; but it’s not a general formula which can be extended to include the rest of humankind.

Ezekiel 18 is only specific reference to God’s people, but not all people belong to God as we know from Romans 9:21.

Since the foundation of the world God has offered salvation only to one group of people, but salvation was never offered to the other group which is the rest of humankind: Matthew 25:34, Romans 9:21 and Revelation 13:8.

If God had truly wanted all people to be saved then he would never have predestined one group unto honour and the other group unto dishonour: Romans 9:21.


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[genuineoriginal]

Which is refuted by other relevant Scripture in the Bible because the above citation is not the only thing which God allegedly promised; but God has said many other things which apparently ‘contradict’ this quote from the Bible.

You have made an unfounded statement.
Can you back it up with anything substantial?

 

[Lion.of.Judah]

I AM TELLING YOU THAT I DON’T WANT ALL PEOPLE TO BE SAVED; but Ezekiel 18, 1 Timothy 2:3, 4 and 2 Peter 3:9 are often misunderstood.

I can ATTEST the Will of God who does NOT want all people to be saved.

The testimony and evidence of Christ is suffice to settle this matter: John 1, 7:16, 10:30, 12:49, 50.

Now, either I have lied or the Bible itself has “lied”, but the Word itself doesn’t “lie”; however, those verses are often misinterpreted and misunderstood.

My testimony is sufficient and substantive evidence to settle this matter.

Otherwise, you are calling God a Liar.

For I and My Father are One. John 10:30


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[genuineoriginal]

I AM TELLING YOU THAT I DON’T WANT ALL PEOPLE TO BE SAVED

Does it matter whether you want all people to be saved or not?

Scriptures show that God wants all people to turn from their wickedness and be saved from the judgment to come.

Acts 17:30-31 30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: 31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.​

I can ATTEST the Will of God who does NOT want all people to be saved.

Which god would that be?

My testimony is sufficient and substantive evidence to settle this matter.

Otherwise, you are calling God a Liar.

I have not called God a liar.

 

[JudgeRightly]

I AM TELLING YOU THAT I DON’T WANT ALL PEOPLE TO BE SAVED;

That's just sad...

Trying to be meaner than God.

How pitiful.

The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance. - 2 Peter 3:9 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2Peter3:9&version=NKJV

but Ezekiel 18, 1 Timothy 2:3, 4 and 2 Peter 3:9 are often misunderstood.

They seem pretty clear cut to me, especially when taking into consideration the context.

Ezekiel is talking about a proverb that had become popular at the time, how it described God as being unjust. God got angry because it was wicked.

1 Timothy 2:3-4 definitely says that God desires for all to be saved.

And 2 Peter 3:8-9 definitely says that God is far more patient and powerful than any man, and is not willing that any should perish.

Not sure why those are so hard for you to understand.

I can ATTEST the Will of God who does NOT want all people to be saved.

So you claim to speak for God, then? Are you His spokesperson?

Do you know what the punishment was for those who proclaimed themselves to be God's spokeperson when they were not?

They were put to death.

Can we put you to death, seeing as you are definitely not God's spokesperson?

The testimony and evidence of Christ is suffice to settle this matter: John 1, 7:16, 10:30, 12:49, 50.

Now, either I have lied or the Bible itself has “lied”, but the Word itself doesn’t “lie”;

Oh, so either you're a liar or God is a liar?

:think:

Consider what Romans 3:4 says:

"Indeed, let God be true but every man a liar."

So... that makes you the liar. :thumb:

however, those verses are often misinterpreted and misunderstood.

The only one here who has so far misunderstood those verses is you.

My testimony is sufficient and substantive evidence to settle this matter.

Nope.

This will be the third time I am coming to you. “By the mouth of two or three witnesses every word shall be established.” - 2 Corinthians 13:1 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2Corinthians13:1&version=NKJV

“One witness shall not rise against a man concerning any iniquity or any sin that he commits; by the mouth of two or three witnesses the matter shall be established. - Deuteronomy 19:15 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deuteronomy19:15&version=NKJV

Otherwise, you are calling God a Liar.

Says the one who has claimed that either he is lying or God is lying. And we know what the Bible says about that...

For I and My Father are One. John 10:30

This is blasphemy. You are not one with the Father.

 

[glorydaz]

However, you are ALSO calling God a liar by attempting to refute (or ignore) the inference drawn from Ezekiel 18:4, which has clearly shown that God wants them to die if they have sinned.

Since the law has prescribed the death penalty it is indicative of the intentions of the lawmaker who is God; it is indicative of the heart and mind of God, and his desire concerning the fate of individuals who have sinned: Ezekiel 18:4.

The conjecture is so clear, obvious, and irrefutable.

Also, 2 Peter 3:8-9 is NOT absolutely true, but there are ***exceptions*** to the rule as clearly demonstrated by the law of Ezekiel 18:4 AND also by God’s destruction of the earth’s inhabitants in Isaiah 24:1 AND by his destruction of the Resurrected dead in the lake of fire in Revelation 20:15, 21:8.

Why would God destroy so many people unless he ***wanted*** to do it (but if he wants to destroy them then it is clearly false that 2 Peter 3:9 is ***always*** going to be true)?

Seriously, are you telling me that God would only ***reluctantly*** destroy them because he still wants all people to be saved?

Such an ‘argument’ would beggar belief, but it has no credibility whatsoever.

Since the following are mutually exclusive:-

(1) God wants all people to be saved.

(2) God wants to destroy most of the earth’s inhabitants AND also destroy the Resurrected dead at the Last Judgment in heaven.

1 and 2 cannot both be true at the same time; therefore, 2 Peter 3:9 cannot be absolutely true, since there are exceptions to the rule as demonstrated by the aforementioned.


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Clearly this poster has no comprehension of God's righteousness. :sigh:

 

[JudgeRightly]

Lion.of.Judah

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[The Lamb]

These kinds of pretzels are what happens when one fails to rightly divide.

What do you mean to "divide"?

God is the only one who has any right to divide the sheep and goats:-

Matthew 25:33 - And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left.

Also, God cannot fail to rightly divide:-

John 5:30 - As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is righteous, because I do not seek My own will but the will of the Father who sent Me.

Romans 9:14 - Is there unrighteousness with God? Certainly not!

By saying that he can "divide" at all implies that he is the Christ and you know it.

For who else can divide the sheep and goats, except for God or Jesus Christ Son of God?

 

[glorydaz]

What do you mean to "divide"?

God is the only one who has any right to divide the sheep and goats:-

Matthew 25:33 - And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left.

Also, God cannot fail to rightly divide:-

John 5:30 - As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is righteous, because I do not seek My own will but the will of the Father who sent Me.

Romans 9:14 - Is there unrighteousness with God? Certainly not!

By saying that he can "divide" at all implies that he is the Christ and you know it.

For who else can divide the sheep and goats, except for God or Jesus Christ Son of God?

What? Back for another go already?



So what makes you assume he was talking about dividing the sheep from the goats?

 

[The Lamb]

These kinds of pretzels are what happens when one fails to rightly divide.

Assuming that he has any authority to "divide" the sheep and goats then it would tend to undermine the rest of this thread.

Regardless of what anybody else has said he would still have the FINAL SAY as to who should live or not.

Whether or not God wants all people to be saved does nothing to change the fact that this person would still have the final word on the day of Judgment.

Based on God's Sovereignty over Salvation of course: Romans 9:15, 16.

 

[The Lamb]

What? Back for another go already?



So what makes you assume he was talking about dividing the sheep from the goats?

Then what else could he be talking about?

How is the word "division" relevant to the Bible, except in the specific context of dividing the sheep and goats in Matthew 25?

 

[glorydaz]

Then what else could he be talking about?

How is the word "division" relevant to the Bible, except in the specific context of dividing the sheep and goats in Matthew 25?

2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

 

[JudgeRightly]

The Lamb

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