Evangelism According to John 3:16

byass

New member
The world (Jn3:16) does not refer to everyone.

The apostles's vision (Rev7:9) shows that the whole of humanity is represented in glory:'every nation, tribe, people and language'.

God,The Father, sovereignly chose His representative sample of humanity:'before the creation of the world'(Eph 1:4).

So, the 'saving'love of God is only for His elect, those he has chosen , predestined and calls.

An unbiased consideration of Rom Ch 9-11 clearly establishes the discriminating saving love of God.

This truth of God's discriminating saving love has a particular application to evangelism:
'God loves you and Christ died for you' is inappropriate.

Scriptural evangelism presents anyone with the evidence that 'Jesus is the Christ'.

Without any pressure to accept Christ as your Lord and Saviour.

Leave the results upto God.
 

JudgeRightly

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Idolater

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The world (Jn3:16) does not refer to everyone.

The apostles's vision (Rev7:9) shows that the whole of humanity is represented in glory:'every nation, tribe, people and language'.

God,The Father, sovereignly chose His representative sample of humanity:'before the creation of the world'(Eph 1:4).

So, the 'saving'love of God is only for His elect, those he has chosen , predestined and calls.

An unbiased consideration of Rom Ch 9-11 clearly establishes the discriminating saving love of God.

This truth of God's discriminating saving love has a particular application to evangelism:
'God loves you and Christ died for you' is inappropriate.

Scriptural evangelism presents anyone with the evidence that 'Jesus is the Christ'.

Without any pressure to accept Christ as your Lord and Saviour.

Leave the results upto God.
Invite people to Mass.
 

byass

New member
Invite people to Mass.
Please clarify for me what and how 'mass' has anything to do with evangelism or God's electing of his own people in Christ before the creation of the world. Using the Bible not any of the Pope's Edicts please. Jesus is Lord, the Pope is just another priest like you, me or any other Christian.
The fact that millions believe in him does not prove anything except it is widespread. The fact that Popery developed over 1000 years ago only shows it is an ancient fraud. Popery is a mass of deceit.
 

Idolater

Well-known member
Please clarify for me
Evangelism is preaching the Gospel, the object of evangelism is more Christians, Christians are the Church, the Church is at minimum her institutions, and her most salient institutions are baptism and Holy Communion, the former of which is celebrated occasionally or sporadically, it's variable, and the latter of which is celebrated every Sunday at Mass. Go to Mass. Then, be received into full communion with the Church. Then, receive Holy Communion. Keep yourself in full communion and celebrate the sacrament of penance accordingly. Heed your bishop.

It's really, really easy. And everybody lives near a Catholic parish community church.
what and how 'mass' has anything to do with evangelism or God's electing of his own people in Christ before the creation of the world. Using the Bible not any of the Pope's Edicts please. Jesus is Lord, the Pope is just another priest like you, me or any other Christian.
The fact that millions believe in him does not prove anything except it is widespread. The fact that Popery developed over 1000 years ago only shows it is an ancient fraud. Popery is a mass of deceit.
Well, it isn't like you're not going to fit in here.
 

byass

New member
Evangelism is preaching the Gospel, the object of evangelism is more Christians, Christians are the Church, the Church is at minimum her institutions, and her most salient institutions are baptism and Holy Communion, the former of which is celebrated occasionally or sporadically, it's variable, and the latter of which is celebrated every Sunday at Mass. Go to Mass. Then, be received into full communion with the Church. Then, receive Holy Communion. Keep yourself in full communion and celebrate the sacrament of penance accordingly. Heed your bishop.

It's really, really easy. And everybody lives near a Catholic parish community church.

Well, it isn't like you're not going to fit in here.
I hear what you believe about the Catholic Church. I will agree to differ with you on the Catholic Church.
 

yourpoint?

New member
The world (Jn3:16) does not refer to everyone.

The apostles's vision (Rev7:9) shows that the whole of humanity is represented in glory:'every nation, tribe, people and language'.

God,The Father, sovereignly chose His representative sample of humanity:'before the creation of the world'(Eph 1:4).

So, the 'saving'love of God is only for His elect, those he has chosen , predestined and calls.

An unbiased consideration of Rom Ch 9-11 clearly establishes the discriminating saving love of God.

This truth of God's discriminating saving love has a particular application to evangelism:
'God loves you and Christ died for you' is inappropriate.

Scriptural evangelism presents anyone with the evidence that 'Jesus is the Christ'.

Without any pressure to accept Christ as your Lord and Saviour.

Leave the results upto God.
So, are you one that God discriminatingly loves and saves, or one that He chose to withhold His "discriminating saving love" from?
 

byass

New member
So, are you one that God discriminatingly loves and saves, or one that He chose to withhold His "discriminating saving love" from?
I am one whom God chose to love and save(Eph1:4). God chooses whom he loves and saves(Rom 9:Rom 9:16-18; 22-23).
I have assurance of salvation (Rom10:9-10). To discriminate means to choose one instead of another.
 

yourpoint?

New member
I am one whom God chose to love and save(Eph1:4). God chooses whom he loves and saves(Rom 9:Rom 9:16-18; 22-23).
I have assurance of salvation (Rom10:9-10). To discriminate means to choose one instead of another.
Do you believe there are some who believe they are chosen, but in reality they are damned?
 

byass

New member
yourpoint? This name you chose for yourself suggests that your intent is to question what anyone says.
I think you are not interested in scripture. You get your fun by interrogating what people say.
You can keep your hypothetical questions to yourself. I won't be playing your silly game anymore.
Jesus is Lord!
 
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yourpoint?

New member
yourpoint? This name you chose for yourself suggests that your intent is to question what anyone says.
I think you are not interested in scripture. You get your fun by interrogating what people say.
You can keep your hypothetical questions to yourself. I won't be playing your silly game anymore.
Jesus is Lord!
I'm very interested in scripture. But, I don't understand why you would make such a claim about John 3:16.

According to the context then, you must also believe that only certain people could be healed when they looked at the serpent that Moses lifted up in the wilderness.
John 3:14-16;
"And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved."


Also, my Bible, the KJV says nothing about the world in Revelation 7:9. Maybe you're trying to say that we should replace "the world" with "a representation of the world"; like this:
'And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God so loved a representation of the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into a representation of the world to condemn a representation of the world; but that a representation of the world through him might be saved.'

That is not what what John is saying.

And neither does it agree with the part about the serpent:
Numbers 21:8-9
"And the LORD said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a pole: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he looketh upon it, shall live. And Moses made a serpent of brass, and put it upon a pole, and it came to pass, that if a serpent had bitten any man, when he beheld the serpent of brass, he lived."

It doesn't say:
And the LORD said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a pole: and it shall come to pass, that a representation that is bitten, when he looketh upon it, shall live. And Moses made a serpent of brass, and put it upon a pole, and it came to pass, that if a serpent had bitten any man, when a representation beheld the serpent of brass, a representation lived.
This truth of God's discriminating saving love has a particular application to evangelism:
'God loves you and Christ died for you' is inappropriate.
God said that every man that was bitten could be healed. You don't believe the Bible. The serpent was for all men; so is Christ who was lifted up "as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness".
God,The Father, sovereignly chose His representative sample of humanity:'before the creation of the world'(Eph 1:4).
Nowhere does it say anything about a "representative sample of humanity:'"

Also:
No pressure in order to convince men of sin? Paul disagrees:
Acts 17:2, "And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,"
Acts 18:4, "And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks."
Acts 17:16-17, "Now while Paul waited for them at Athens, his spirit was stirred in him, when he saw the city wholly given to idolatry. Therefore disputed he in the synagogue with the Jews, and with the devout persons, and in the market daily with them that met with him."
Acts 19:8, "And he went into the synagogue, and spake boldly for the space of three months, disputing and persuading the things concerning the kingdom of God."
Acts 28:23, "And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening."
1 Corinthians 9:22, "To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some."
1 Corinthians 10:33, "Even as I please all men in all things, not seeking mine own profit, but the profit of many, that they may be saved."

And apparently you didn't even read The scripture that you used in the OP.
Romans 11:14, "If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them." Apparently Paul didn't understand your "discriminating saving love of God".

Maybe you don't think persuading, reasoning, and provoking someone in order for them to be saved is "pressure". Think again.

Did you never read Acts 26:28? "Then Agrippa said unto Paul, Almost thou persuadest me to be a Christian."

I won't be playing your silly game anymore.
Jesus is Lord!
As for a "silly game", you can't even tell a dying man that God loves him.
Maybe you should read the Gospel According to Mark. when you get to chapter 10 pause at verse 21.
Then maybe the Gospel According to Luke and pause at 13:34. And Jesus was weeping over Jerusalem in Luke, 19:41 due to his hatred for them? The same ones he wanted to take under his 'wings' but they were unwilling!

How do you conclude this:
An unbiased consideration of Rom Ch 9-11 clearly establishes the discriminating saving love of God.
From this scripture you gave as a source:
Romans 11:18-24
"Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee. Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in. Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again."

Maybe you should study the "be not highminded, but fear", and "if thou continue" parts.

There is absolutely nothing in Romans 9-11 about "the discriminating saving love of God". You flat made that up.

I think you are not interested in scripture.
You can see for yourself. Are you?
yourpoint? This name you chose for yourself suggests that your intent is to question what anyone says.

So yeah, back to my name; yourpoint??????

PS
God has more than enough grace for all the sins of the whole world! Romans 5:20, "Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:" I hope that someday you begin to believe it!

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life!
 

byass

New member
"the discriminating saving love of God" is another way of saying God's election of some for salvation in Christ.
God sovereignly chose some and not others; God discriminates between who he saves and who he does not save (Rom 9:1)
 

byass

New member
The world in Jn3:16 does not refer to everyone but to both Jews and Gentiles.
Jn3:16 must be understood in the context of the whole of Johns gospel.
Jn Ch 10 speaks of the sheep the Father gave to Jesus. For these sheep Jesus died.
Jn 10 shows Jn3:16 does not refer to everyone.
Jn 17:2 Jesus gives eternal life to all those given him by the Father shows Jn3:16 does not refer to everyone.
Jn 17:2 shows that Jn3;16 does not refer to everyone.

If God loves everyone then everyone must be saved.
But everyone will not be saved.

Man's supposed free will cannot defeat God's purpose to save whom he desires to save.
 

yourpoint?

New member
The world in Jn3:16 does not refer to everyone but to both Jews and Gentiles.
Jn3:16 must be understood in the context of the whole of Johns gospel.
Jn Ch 10 speaks of the sheep the Father gave to Jesus. For these sheep Jesus died.
Jn 10 shows Jn3:16 does not refer to everyone.
Jn 17:2 Jesus gives eternal life to all those given him by the Father shows Jn3:16 does not refer to everyone.
Jn 17:2 shows that Jn3;16 does not refer to everyone.
Saying it doesn't make it so. Study the words for yourself in the context of the whole scripture rather than take another man's word for it.
Who could be healed by the serpent?
If God loves everyone then everyone must be saved.
Why? You ignored the scripture I gave. Jesus loved those who "would not". It doesn't say could not.
But everyone will not be saved.
Not because they cannot be saved.
Man's supposed free will cannot defeat God's purpose to save whom he desires to save.
So accordingly, Adam ate from the tree because God willed it and therefore all the resulting curse is God's will. Whoa....., some god you have there! Do you believe "Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created."?
So God takes pleasure in those created to be damned? Ezekiel didn't believe that. He expresses it four different times.
Ezekiel 33:11,Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

Neither does it sound like God was taking pleasure in Israel in the wilderness.
Hebrews 3:6-19
"But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.
Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice,
Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness:
When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years.
Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways.
So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.)
Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.
For some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit not all that came out of Egypt by Moses. But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness? And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not? So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief."

Do you really believe God took pleasure in the wickedness of man and that the fall of man was God's will?
Genesis 6:5-6, And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

You are simply parroting what you've been told by man and apparently never studied to know the truth. You ignore simple scriptures and twist others to conform to what you want.
 
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