Elohiym & the Trinity

[godrulz]

Phi 2:9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
Phi 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
Phi 2:11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.


Joh 17:1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: Joh 17:2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
Joh 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
Joh 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
Joh 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

1Co 15:27 All things are put under him; undoubtedly, he is excepted, who put all things under him.
1Co 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then the Son also himself shall be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all. (DRB

There is no equality as long as Christ is in subjection to his Father.

Mary and Joseph were subject to Jesus according to Scripture. Does that make them inferior to Him? Subjection is functional roles, not essential unequality.

Phil. 2 is actually a key passage that shows that Jesus is equal with God, but voluntarily became lower positionally than the angels for a time (Hebrews 1; 2) without losing His essential equality with God.

 

[Freak]

Freak, you are not a child of God, and you are going to hell if you do not repent.

You are blind to the things of God and therefore why should I care about what a heretic thinks of me. I repented twenty years ago. All of my sins have been forgiven.

You have already admitted on this thread to be in bondage to sin, except you don't call it that because you blame your sins on the flesh and claim your identity is in Christ (while you sin).

Yes, the flesh sins but I am NOT identified in the flesh. I am identified by the righeousness of Jesus Christ. I do not sin, I am in Christ. Where did I say I sinned. The flesh sins but I am NOT in the flesh. I am in Christ!!

You think Justin Martyr is credible?

I was merely pointing out the obvious and that is the Church Fathers in the 1st Century believed in the triune nature of God.

Does Justin Martyr reflect your beliefs, Freak?

Like when Justin insists constantly on the virgin birth (I Apol., xxii; xxxiii; Dial., xliii, lxxvi, lxxxiv, etc.) and the reality of the flesh of Christ (Dial., xlviii, xcviii, ciii; cf. II Apol., x, 1). He states that among the Christians there are some who do not admit the Divinity of Christ but they are a minority; he differs from them because of the authority of the Prophets (Dial., xlvi); the entire dialogue, moreover, is devoted to proving this thesis. Christ is the Master whose doctrine enlightens us (I Apol., xiii, 3; xxiii, 2; xxxii, 2; II, viii, 5; xiii, 2; Dial., viii, lxxvii, lxxxiii, c, cxiii), also the Redeemer whose blood saves us (I Apol., lxiii, 10, 16; Dial., xiii, xl, xli, xcv, cvi; cf. Rivière, "Hist. du dogme de la rédemption", Paris, 1905, 115, and tr., London, 1908).

My point is that it is not a doctrine that matters if we accept the deity of Chirst.

This is where you are in error. The apostle Paul tells us:

He must hold firmly to the trustworthy message as it has been taught, so that he can encourage others by sound doctrine and refute those who oppose it.

You must teach what is in accord with sound doctrine.

Sound doctrine is important! What we believe about the nature of God is important. You are ignorant and heretical in your views of Holy God.

You have made it a condition of salvation, as I have previously shown.

Again I have never said it is essential to salvation. I did say it was essential to proper worship and to sound doctrine, a difference you fail to understand. Again, I can only contribute this to your blindess.

...you just want to claim I worship a false God, even though I worship the God of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob; you want to say I have a demon because I don't want to use the word "trinity."

You professed knowing a false god earlier. You are confused about the nature of God.

 

[Freak]

To recap this is what the false teacher elohiym believes:

"God the Father IS the Holy Spirit. Christ Jesus IS the Holy Spirit incarnate. That makes ONE spirit being referred to as Father and Son, not "three distinct person."

Where in Scripture is the Father referred to as the Holy Spirit?

The Father is the Father.

The Son is the Son.

The Spirit is the Spirit.

You are confused and a false teacher!

 

[keypurr]

We've been over this several times on other threads.

Your understanding of "Deity of Christ" is not the theological, historical use of the concept.

Yes I do

You deny His true Deity by saying He is not equal with the Father. You use verses about His incarnational humanity to try to contradict other verses about His pre-existent Deity.

I have not denied his Deity, or his preexsistence, but his Father is greater. Your hung up on tradition my friend. You seem to pick and choose the verses you wnat to accept and bypass the rest.
If Christ is also the Father why does Paul always say "God the Father and his son our Lord Jesus Christ"? Try to see the whole picture.

 

[immivik]

John 10:38 and v.30
first v. 38 because it is important to contemplate the notion that Jesus claimed to be IN the Father.
this is significant being that God the Father is independent of man. no mere man can claim to be in the Father lest they be 'absorbed' by Him. I don't believe there is any portion of the Old Testament where any man claimed to be IN the Father in a unified sense as Jesus did.

v. 39 "I and My Father are One."
this so offended the Jews that they took up stones to stone Him. because ,v.33; ("You, being a man
make yourself God.")

 

[keypurr]

John 10:38 and v.30
first v. 38 because it is important to contemplate the notion that Jesus claimed to be IN the Father.
this is significant being that God the Father is independent of man. no mere man can claim to be in the Father lest they be 'absorbed' by Him. I don't believe there is any portion of the Old Testament where any man claimed to be IN the Father in a unified sense as Jesus did.

v. 39 "I and My Father are One."
this so offended the Jews that they took up stones to stone Him. because ,v.33; ("You, being a man
make yourself God.")

If Christ is in you then you and Christ are one in spirit. You are then a son also. The spirit of the Father was/is in Jesus. He has be made Lord of all by his Father.

 

[immivik]

the scripture does not claim that the spirit 'of' God was in Jesus.
this is the difference between Jesus and others who are born again.
Jesus is God. the Father is God. the Holy Spirit is God. they are One.
Jesus claimed that He was in the Father, and the Father also in Him.
when speaking of the Holy Spirit, Jesus names the Holy Spirit as a member of an office.
ex.Mark 28:18-20
Then Jesus came to them and said,"All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Me.
Therfore, go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everythingI have commanded you. and surely I am with you always , even to the end of the age."

 

[elohiym]

To recap this is what the false teacher elohiym believes:

"God the Father IS the Holy Spirit. Christ Jesus IS the Holy Spirit incarnate. That makes ONE spirit being referred to as Father and Son, not "three distinct person."

Where in Scripture is the Father referred to as the Holy Spirit?

God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. John 4:24

The Father is the Father.

The Father is a spirit. If YOU claim he is not a spirit, not A HOLY SPIRIT, then explain what the Father is.

The Son is the Son.

Galatians 4:6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

The Son is a spirit. If YOU claim He is not a spirit, not A HOLY SPIRIT, then explain what the Son is.

The Spirit is the Spirit.

The spirit is the spirit of the Father and Son, the Holy Spirit.

But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit. 1 Corinthians 6:17

For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.1 Corinthians 12:13

For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. Ephesians 2:18

There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; Ephesians 4:4

You are confused and a false teacher!

You are ignorant of the Bible, and you are sinner by your own admission, so your opinion is worthless to me. :down:

 

[elohiym]

Here is the false doctrine that Freak is preaching:

My flesh whom I do not identify with sins but my identification is not in the flesh.

Freak is in bondage to sin, and he is preaching a license to sin.

 

[keypurr]

the scripture does not claim that the spirit 'of' God was in Jesus.
this is the difference between Jesus and others who are born again.
Jesus is God. the Father is God. the Holy Spirit is God. they are One.
Jesus claimed that He was in the Father, and the Father also in Him.
when speaking of the Holy Spirit, Jesus names the Holy Spirit as a member of an office.
ex.Mark 28:18-20
Then Jesus came to them and said,"All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Me.
Therfore, go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everythingI have commanded you. and surely I am with you always , even to the end of the age."

Why didn't he just say baptizing them in the name of God?

 

[godrulz]

Here is the false doctrine that Freak is preaching:Freak is in bondage to sin, and he is preaching a license to sin.

Are you related to sozo?

 

[godrulz]

Why didn't he just say baptizing them in the name of God?

He did not say nameS. God is triune, hence Father, Son, Spirit vs name of God.

 

[immivik]

God acknowledges His office titles

God acknowledges His office titles

Why didn't he just say baptizing them in the name of God?

though I do realize this will sound simplistic, I beleive that God wants to be represented
clearly, thus He specified that we be baptized in the name of each title which He acknoledges to be a member of His Godhead. :granite: :1Way:

 

[elohiym]

El: OT verses about the oneness of God and OT passages quoted in the NT do not contradict the other verses that show a plurality within the unity (compound unity). This is progressive revelation. Jesus tells us more about the person and work of the Holy Spirit than did OT prophets.

And I don't disagree with that. I simply call what I believe a unity, and I do not deny the deity of Christ. I proclaim that the Father, Son, and Holy spirit are one. That is the only doctrine of God's nature I can support with the Bible.

You and Freak are obssesed with the words trinue and trinity, which never appear in the Bible, and require that people accept the Catholic Trinity Doctrine as sound doctrine. At the same time, you two reject most of the early church teachings, which makes you hypocrites.

Your god family ideas sound like Herbert Armstrong's false teaching.

I don't know who Herbert Armstrong is. He's probably someone that studied the Bible and early church writings, unlike you.

Jesus is the unique Son of God from eternity in the Godhead. We are adopted sons of God, but we are not part of the eternal nature/spirit of God. He is uncreated; we are creatures. We can become Christ-like and enter relationship with God, but we are not gods nor part of the Godhead.

Do you agree with the following statement by Justin Martyr?

"The Word exercises an influence which does not make poets: it does not equip philosophers nor skilled orators, but by its instruction it makes mortals immortal, mortals gods; and from the earth transports them to the realms above Olympus. Come, be taught; become as I am, for I, too, was as ye are." Saint Justin Martyr THE DISCOURSE TO THE GREEKS ​

Justin Martyr claimed that the indwelling Word made mortals into immortals, and made mortals into gods. Do you believe that? Is that heresy, in your opinion?

 

[keypurr]

He did not say nameS. God is triune, hence Father, Son, Spirit vs name of God.

That is the point. Why did he not just use the word God? Why say the father, son and holy spirit?

 

[keypurr]

El, Godrulz always has a name or organization to associate people with. Did you notice that?

 

[elohiym]

El, Godrulz always has a name or organization to associate people with. Did you notice that?

Yeah, I noticed.

 

[Freak]

The Son is a spirit. If YOU claim He is not a spirit, not A HOLY SPIRIT, then explain what the Son is.

As a false teacher, you continue to expose yourself as a monkey boy who is void of biblical truth. The Son has come into the flesh and will remain in the flesh. He is not merely spirit...

The author of life (God) is said to have been killed by the Jews (Acts 3:15); but He could not have been killed were He not Man.

Jesus is spirit and human (He has come into the flesh)!

You are ignorant of the Bible, and you are sinner by your own admission, so your opinion is worthless to me.

I am not a sinner as I am NOT identified in the flesh. The Father sees me in the perfect righteousness of Jesus Christ not in my flesh. elohiym sees me as a sinner. Am I worried? Nope! Why? Because I don't trust what false teachers think of me, like those who make wacky statements as he has made about the triune God.

 

[Freak]

You and Freak are obssesed with the words trinue and trinity, which never appear in the Bible, and require that people accept the Catholic Trinity Doctrine as sound doctrine.

Do you believe in the incarnation? The word "incarnation' doesn't appear in the Bible. Not sure why I even continue discussing all of this with you as you bore me!

At the same time, you two reject most of the early church teachings, which makes you hypocrites.

Let's take a look at the early church teachings and their affirmation of the triune God...

Ignatius died in 110 AD. He was a disciple of the Apostle John and was the bishop of Antioch. He was martyred in Rome only 10 years after John died. Ignatius is as close to the source as you can get. He had several interesting quotes concerning the Trinity doctrine:

“In Christ Jesus our Lord, by whom and with whom be glory and power to the Father with the Holy Spirit for ever”.

Polycarp lived to be 90 years old. He was martyred in 160 AD. He was also a disciple of the Apostle John and the bishop of Smyrna. His doctrine about Jesus was also directly from the source. Polycarp also makes a clear distinction between Jesus, the Father and the Holy Spirit:
“O Lord God almighty...I bless you and glorify you through the eternal and heavenly high priest Jesus Christ, your beloved Son, through whom be glory to you, with Him and the Holy Spirit, both now and forever”

Iranaeus another church father presented & defended the triune nature of God.

"The Church, though dispersed throughout the whole world, even to the ends of the earth, has received from the apostles and their disciples this faith: ...one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all things that are in them; and in one Christ Jesus, the Son of God, who became incarnate for our salvation; and in the Holy Spirit, who proclaimed through the prophets the dispensations of God, and the advents, and the birth from a virgin, and the passion, and the resurrection from the dead, and the ascension into heaven in the flesh of the beloved Christ Jesus, our Lord, and His manifestation from heaven in the glory of the Father ‘to gather all things in one,' and to raise up anew all flesh of the whole human race, in order that to Christ Jesus, our Lord, and God, and Savior, and King, according to the will of the invisible Father, ‘every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth, and that every tongue should confess; to him, and that He should execute just judgment towards all...'" (Against Heresies X.l)

In 190 AD Clement Of Alexandria makes a strong case for Christ’s deity and the Trinity in several writings:
“I understand nothing else than the Holy Trinity to be meant; for the third is the Holy Spirit, and the Son is the second, by whom all things were made according to the will of the Father.” (Stromata, Book V, ch. 14)

I could go on...

You are not only a false teacher but a stupid one at that. :chuckle:

 

[keypurr]

1Jo 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, so that it would be shown that they all are not of us.

Every one must be proved. For false teachersw came early.