ECT Does the book of James contradict Paul's epistles? How?

[Heterodoxical]

He actually says that one's faith is perfected by one's works...

Yes, perfected meaning completed, teleios. So if it's not complete, it's not proven. So the works being there, complete the claim to faith. Right??? I think we are close here.

Remember the old adage: "Practice makes perfect"...?

Yup. Eph 4:11-16 says that specifically Christian maturity comes through works, not bible study.

One must practice the faith in order to perfect it in one's self...

It's hard to get pregnant reading a book and not acting on it, right?

 

[Right Divider]

So RD, was Christ right or wrong in Acts 1:8?

But ye shall receive power,
after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you:
and ye shall be witnesses unto me
both in Jerusalem,
and in all Judaea,
and in Samaria,
and unto the uttermost part of the earth.


A.

Christ is always right. I'm surprised that you didn't know that.

The first shall was fulfilled on Pentecost, the second was but partially fulfilled shortly after that.

 

[john w]

And, what is the conflict?

I guess when you cherry pick and edit out of context you may have an argument to make.

MAKE IT....

The old reliable "cherry pick" puzzler.


Next up: Bible chopper.....Don't you believe the bible?

And that "out of context" "slam dunk" works on any subject.


A dishonest droid, on this issue, as if he obeys all the of the book, and does not "cherry pick."

 

[Nick M]

James discusses how FAITH is justified, proven, evidenced.

James 2

21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar?

Galatians 2

16 knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.

 

[Nick M]

The special irony here (not really-but intentional by the Holy Spirit) is that Paul uses those exact words when referring to conflict with James and the spies he sent.

 

[oatmeal]

James 2

21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar?

Galatians 2

16 knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.

Abraham was justified by works. That is the truth.

He believed God, Romans 4:3

Galatians is referring to doing the works of the law of Moses in attempt to justify oneself, that is impossible.

He was not justified by doing/working the law of Moses

He was justified by believing God, which although it does take work, it may not take much work.

When the woman with the issue of blood was healed, she believed that touching the hem of the garment of Jesus Christ would heal her, it did.

That is almost no work, compared to all the work and effort she had put in the years previous to receive healing.

She did not do any medical procedures or obey the law of Moses to be healed, she believed on Jesus Christ and the power of God he manifested

We must distinguish between the legalism of trying to earn justification by working the law of Moses in contrast to the work it takes to believe God and thus receive justification from God

 

[Arsenios]

So RD, was Christ right or wrong in Acts 1:8?

But ye shall receive power,
after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you:
and ye shall be witnesses unto me
both in Jerusalem,
and in all Judaea,
and in Samaria,
and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

Christ is always right.

Good! We have a basis then for your correction!

I'm surprised that you didn't know that.

How could you be?
I am on your VERY CONFUSED list!
You should NOT be surprised...

The first shall was fulfilled on Pentecost,

So you say that Christ was right on THAT prophesy...

the second was but partially fulfilled shortly after that.

But Christ was only PARTIALLY right on the second one...

And you said: Christ is ALWAYS RIGHT...

So is He always right, or is He sometimes only PARTIALLY right?

And are YOU the one to correct His words?

Arsenios

 

[Arsenios]

The old reliable "cherry pick" puzzler.


Next up: Bible chopper.....Don't you believe the bible?

And that "out of context" "slam dunk" works on any subject.


A dishonest droid, on this issue, as if he obeys all the of the book, and does not "cherry pick."

Why are you such a snotty boy?

Have you become so internet jaded
that you imagine that you have heard it all before,
and have given up on mankind?

I mean, c'mon!

Why spit on people like this?

It does not communicate the Grace of our Lord...

Arsenios

 

[Arsenios]

James 2

21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar?

Galatians 2

16 knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.

Abraham was justified by his work of faith when he believed God and offered the sacrifice of his son... He was not justified by the works of the Law of the Jews as it was practiced in Israel at the time of Christ...

Paul is speaking of the works of the Law, and not of the works of Faith... The works of the Faith of Christ are not the works of the Judaic Law under which He was born and fulfilled...

Obedience to Christ is not the keeping of the Law of the Jews...

Arsenios

 

[Arsenios]

The special irony here (not really-but intentional by the Holy Spirit) is that Paul uses those exact words when referring to conflict with James and the spies he sent.

Did I miss that?
I was not aware that James had sent spies on Paul...
Can you give a citation please?

Arsenios

 

[Simon Baker]

Did I miss that?
I was not aware that James had sent spies on Paul...
Can you give a citation please?

Arsenios

I have seen many people focus on select words in scripture, certain verses and words they think sound good, and they do not know what it means. The scary thing is, they think they do. I Pray For Us All.

 

[Nang]

Why are you such a snotty boy?

Have you become so internet jaded
that you imagine that you have heard it all before,
and have given up on mankind?

I mean, c'mon!

Why spit on people like this?

It does not communicate the Grace of our Lord...

Arsenios

Johnny has been assigned an impossible task . . . Defending MADism . . . which has resulted in his having to resort to ungodly and gnostic maneuvers to keep his TOL "job".

 

[Nang]

Abraham was justified by his work of faith when he believed God and offered the sacrifice of his son... He was not justified by the works of the Law of the Jews as it was practiced in Israel at the time of Christ...

Paul is speaking of the works of the Law, and not of the works of Faith... The works of the Faith of Christ are not the works of the Judaic Law under which He was born and fulfilled...

Obedience to Christ is not the keeping of the Law of the Jews...

Arsenics

MADists cannot discern the difference . . .

 

[Nick M]

Abraham was justified by his work of faith

James 2

21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar?


I noticed how you added to scripture you perverted vile animal.

 

[Nick M]

Did I miss that?
I was not aware that James had sent spies on Paul...
Can you give a citation please?

Arsenios

If you do not know, then remain silent. You do a disservice by telling people you know when clearly you do not.

Galatians 2

1Then after fourteen years I went up again to Jerusalem with Barnabas, and also took Titus with me. 2 And I went up by revelation, and communicated to them that gospel which I preach among the Gentiles, but privately to those who were of reputation, lest by any means I might run, or had run, in vain. 3 Yet not even Titus who was with me, being a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised. 4 And this occurred because of false brethren secretly brought in (who came in by stealth to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage)...11 Now when Peter had come to Antioch, I withstood him to his face, because he was to be blamed; 12 for before certain men came from James, he would eat with the Gentiles; but when they came, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing those who were of the circumcision.

 

[Simon Baker]

MADists cannot discern the difference . . .

Did you change the name to Arsenics ?

 

[Arsenios]

If you do not know, then remain silent. You do a disservice by telling people you know when clearly you do not.

Galatians 2

1Then after fourteen years I went up again to Jerusalem with Barnabas, and also took Titus with me. 2 And I went up by revelation, and communicated to them that gospel which I preach among the Gentiles, but privately to those who were of reputation, lest by any means I might run, or had run, in vain. 3 Yet not even Titus who was with me, being a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised. 4 And this occurred because of false brethren secretly brought in (who came in by stealth to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage)...11 Now when Peter had come to Antioch, I withstood him to his face, because he was to be blamed; 12 for before certain men came from James, he would eat with the Gentiles; but when they came, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing those who were of the circumcision.

Thank-you - I had not made that connection...

So you think it was James who sent 'false brethren' to spy on Paul?

Might could be... It is these kinds of matters that make for good cause to have the Council in Jerusalem, where it was James who ruled in Paul's favor, with the rest of the Brethren in Jerusalem...
Thanks again - I truly had missed that...

Arsenios

 

[Arsenios]

If you do not know, then remain silent.

That may be what YOU do...

And it may be what MADists do...

But as for me, I ask the ones I love for what I do not know...

So I asked YOU...

You do a disservice by telling people you know when clearly you do not.

As a general rule among some folks, when one asks a question, then that person is NOT telling people they know the answer... But instead is telling them that he does NOT know the answer...

So THANK YOU for the answer - I think I know now, thanks to you...

That wasn't so hard now, was it?

Arsenios

 

[Arsenios]

James 2

21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar?


I noticed how you added to scripture
you perverted vile animal.

I am far worse than anything you will ever know about me...

Thank-you for concealing my REAL sins...

As to the point, do you really think Abraham would have been justified if he merely had "faith in God" and did NOT offer his only begotten son in sacrifice?

You see...

Well, I fear you do not see...

But neither hear not hare...

The OFFERING of Isaac, you see...

Is a WORK...

It is a work of FAITH...

It is NOT a work of the Levitical Law of the Jews...

Which Paul fought against...

Not all THAT hard to see, yes?

(Hope springing eternal, mind you...)

Arsenios

 

[Arsenios]

Did you change the name to Arsenics ?

Just a wee typo, me lad...

Not to vorrie!

I betcha she fixum!

Aah bin called vorse!

A.