Does man naturally have ability to Seek God ?

beloved57

Well-known member
Rom 3:11

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

Gods word states there are none who seek after Him. The word seeketh, as used in Romans 3, is the greek word ekzēteō and means ‘to search out’, ‘investigate’, ‘crave’, ‘require’, ‘demand’, ‘worship’. No man, by nature, does any of these things when it comes to the true God. No man by nature craves, requires, demands, worships or has any love, fear for the true God, therefore, no man by nature seeks God. This evidences that man by nature has no Spiritual Life. This is because man sinned in Adam and died. Man by nature thinks that he does seek after the True and only Living God, but he never really knows the True God, as the True God, but always only an idol. Prov 14:12

There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.

Matt 7:22-23

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

If Christ never knew them, they really never knew Him Jn 10:14

14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.
 

JudgeRightly

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Rom 3:11

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

Gods word states there are none who seek after Him. The word seeketh, as used in Romans 3, is the greek word ekzēteō and means ‘to search out’, ‘investigate’, ‘crave’, ‘require’, ‘demand’, ‘worship’. No man, by nature, does any of these things when it comes to the true God. No man by nature craves, requires, demands, worships or has any love, fear for the true God, therefore, no man by nature seeks God. This evidences that man by nature has no Spiritual Life. This is because man sinned in Adam and died. Man by nature thinks that he does seek after the True and only Living God, but he never really knows the True God, as the True God, but always only an idol. Prov 14:12

There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.

Matt 7:22-23

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

If Christ never knew them, they really never knew Him Jn 10:14

14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.

Once again, you avoided my question. You said:

God does what He wants with His creatures.

So God does things that don't make any rational sense at all? Speaking in parables that can't be understood to dead men that cannot hear doesn't make any sense.

Do you not have an answer for it?
 

beloved57

Well-known member
The fact that no man naturally seeks God Rom 3:11 its evidence of our corrupt will, the will of man is enslaved to sin, has no desire for God, the True God.
 

beloved57

Well-known member
You relentlessly focus on the statement that no man seeks God but then you apply your own misunderstanding to explain the exceptions for those that do seek God.
Its simple Rom 3:11 speaks of the natural man born in sin. Once a person is born again, they do seek God, God is actually drawing them.
 

Catholic Crusader

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When I say men naturally i mean the unregenerate man, in the flesh, never born again ? Can this person seek after the True and Living God ? The answer is NO !

Wrong answer.
The correct answer is YES

God wrote the laws of nature as he created all things, and man naturally seeks his creator.

God, infinitely perfect and blessed in himself, in a plan of sheer goodness freely created man to make him share in his own blessed life. For this reason, at every time and in every place, God draws close to man. He calls man to seek him, to know him, to love him with all his strength. He calls together all men, scattered and divided by sin, into the unity of his family, the Church. To accomplish this, when the fullness of time had come, God sent his Son as Redeemer and Saviour. In his Son and through him, he invites men to become, in the Holy Spirit, his adopted children and thus heirs of his blessed life.

So that this call should resound throughout the world, Christ sent forth the apostles he had chosen, commissioning them to proclaim the gospel: "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, to the close of the age." Strengthened by this mission, the apostles "went forth and preached everywhere, while the Lord worked with them and confirmed the message by the signs that attended it."

Those who with God's help have welcomed Christ's call and freely responded to it are urged on by love of Christ to proclaim the Good News everywhere in the world. This treasure, received from the apostles, has been faithfully guarded by their successors. All Christ's faithful are called to hand it on from generation to generation, by professing the faith, by living it in fraternal sharing, and by celebrating it in liturgy and prayer
.

source
 

beloved57

Well-known member
Wrong answer.
The correct answer is YES

God wrote the laws of nature as he created all things, and man naturally seeks his creator.

God, infinitely perfect and blessed in himself, in a plan of sheer goodness freely created man to make him share in his own blessed life. For this reason, at every time and in every place, God draws close to man. He calls man to seek him, to know him, to love him with all his strength. He calls together all men, scattered and divided by sin, into the unity of his family, the Church. To accomplish this, when the fullness of time had come, God sent his Son as Redeemer and Saviour. In his Son and through him, he invites men to become, in the Holy Spirit, his adopted children and thus heirs of his blessed life.

So that this call should resound throughout the world, Christ sent forth the apostles he had chosen, commissioning them to proclaim the gospel: "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, to the close of the age." Strengthened by this mission, the apostles "went forth and preached everywhere, while the Lord worked with them and confirmed the message by the signs that attended it."

Those who with God's help have welcomed Christ's call and freely responded to it are urged on by love of Christ to proclaim the Good News everywhere in the world. This treasure, received from the apostles, has been faithfully guarded by their successors. All Christ's faithful are called to hand it on from generation to generation, by professing the faith, by living it in fraternal sharing, and by celebrating it in liturgy and prayer
.

source
The answer is No. Rom 3:11

There is none that understandeth: there is none that seeketh God.
 

beloved57

Well-known member
So, you claim that men do seek God after God saves them and I claim men seek God after God draws them to come to Him for salvation. In either case we both agree that men do seek God.
Yes I believe the bible teaches that man seeks the True God after they are saved or born again, prior to that, no man seeks God. The person who is drawn has been saved. Thats when God saves a person when He draws them. You probably think that a person is still a natural man when God draws them, thats not the case.
 

JudgeRightly

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Yes I believe the bible teaches that man seeks the True God after they are saved or born again, prior to that, no man seeks God. The person who is drawn has been saved. Thats when God saves a person when He draws them. You probably think that a person is still a natural man when God draws them, thats not the case.

Can God draw people who are not saved?
 

JudgeRightly

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I just answered.

You didn't answer my question, which is a yes or no question.

You gave a reply, but you didn't answer my question.

Please answer my question:

Is it possible for God to draw someone who is not saved?
 

Hoping

Well-known member
Its simple Rom 3:11 speaks of the natural man born in sin. Once a person is born again, they do seek God, God is actually drawing them.
I read this at McDonalds tonight and it made me think of your POV...
"And not as Moses, which put a veil over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:
14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away." (2 Cor 3:13-16)
In concert with...
"But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
5 For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake.
6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ." (2 Cor 4:3-6)
Summation...the lord of this world, (the devil), has blinded the eyes of the earth's unbelievers, (both Jew and Gentile). (2 Cor 4:4)
BUT...when we turn to the Lord, the veil will be taken away. (2 Cor 3:16)
The trigger for this is belief.
If we believe the message of the "good news" of Jesus Christ, God will provide the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.
That doesn't conform to the model of Calvinism that I have witnessed.
 

beloved57

Well-known member
I read this at McDonalds tonight and it made me think of your POV...
"And not as Moses, which put a veil over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:
14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away." (2 Cor 3:13-16)
In concert with...
"But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
5 For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake.
6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ." (2 Cor 4:3-6)
Summation...the lord of this world, (the devil), has blinded the eyes of the earth's unbelievers, (both Jew and Gentile). (2 Cor 4:4)
BUT...when we turn to the Lord, the veil will be taken away. (2 Cor 3:16)
The trigger for this is belief.
If we believe the message of the "good news" of Jesus Christ, God will provide the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.
That doesn't conform to the model of Calvinism that I have witnessed.
When one turns to the Lord its because God has already turned them, has already regenerated them, and is now drawing them Ps 80:3,7,19

Turn us again, O God, and cause thy face to shine; and we shall be saved.


Turn us again, O God of hosts, and cause thy face to shine; and we shall be saved.


Turn us again, O Lord God of hosts, cause thy face to shine; and we shall be saved.

Lam 5:21

Turn thou us unto thee, O Lord, and we shall be turned; renew our days as of old.

Jer 31:19


Surely after that I was turned, I repented; and after that I was instructed, I smote upon my thigh: I was ashamed, yea, even confounded, because I did bear the reproach of my youth.

The point being, our turning to the Lord, the True God, is an result of and cause of God turning us. Thats His Drawing spoken of in Jn 6:44

44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

This verse can very well read :

44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me turn him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

So yes 2 Cor 3:16

Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.

Also the vail being taken away is only for them in Christ Vs 14

14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.

All who have been chosen in Christ will sooner or later be turned unto the Lord because Christ has taken away their blindness , and their sins.
 

JudgeRightly

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Yes I believe the bible teaches that man seeks the True God after they are saved or born again, prior to that, no man seeks God. The person who is drawn has been saved. Thats when God saves a person when He draws them. You probably think that a person is still a natural man when God draws them, thats not the case.

Can God draw people who are not saved?

His Drawing them is Him saving them.

Can God draw someone who is not saved?

I just answered.

You didn't answer my question, which is a yes or no question.

You gave a reply, but you didn't answer my question.

Please answer my question:

Is it possible for God to draw someone who is not saved?

How about it, B57?

Is it possible for God to draw someone who is not saved?
 

Hoping

Well-known member
When one turns to the Lord its because God has already turned them, has already regenerated them, and is now drawing them Ps 80:3,7,19
If God has turned them they don't need to turn to Him of themselves.
And you end up with a "church" full of the unturned from sin.
It must be easy to be a Calvinist, as there is nothing to believe.
Christianity on the other hand, has much to believe in in order to be found in the book of life on the day of judgement.
Turn us again, O God, and cause thy face to shine; and we shall be saved.
Turn us again, O God of hosts, and cause thy face to shine; and we shall be saved.
Your findings on the word of God make it obvious that God will destroy all who He has not turned.
So everyone in the lake of fire will be able to rightly say..."It isn't my fault I am here!"
I don't believe your doctrine.
 

beloved57

Well-known member
If God has turned them they don't need to turn to Him of themselves.
And you end up with a "church" full of the unturned from sin.
It must be easy to be a Calvinist, as there is nothing to believe.
Christianity on the other hand, has much to believe in in order to be found in the book of life on the day of judgement.

Your findings on the word of God make it obvious that God will destroy all who He has not turned.
So everyone in the lake of fire will be able to rightly say..."It isn't my fault I am here!"
I don't believe your doctrine.
The only way to turn to God is to be turned by God.
 
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