Calvinists also believe that one must first be "Regenerated" before they can receive saving faith. That's the proverbial, "Cart before the horse" explanation.
Does Calvinism Make God Unjust?
- Thread starter Robert Pate
- Start date
Letsargue
New member
((((( There's """CHRISTIAN"""; - A-N-D There is Calvinism A-N-D Everything ELSE )))))!!!
PAUL, DAVID -- 082516
popsthebuilder
New member
Really.. that's the best you have to offer?
Ridicule a brother in faith of spelling as if that is worth rebuke or even makes what I say beyond comprehension.
Thanks for that peaceable giving spirit.
You no doubt are rightly guided.
Peace
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nikolai_42
Well-known member
Interesting thing about that verse - it seems Jesus was speaking to one group and about another. Reading it again :
O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
Matthew 23:37
He is speaking to Jerusalem about her children and Jerusalem (whether this is the leaders of the Jews or something more heavenly, it doesn't matter) would not let Jesus gather her children. In other words, the children of Jerusalem were bound to something. They weren't utterly free. So this verse tends to disprove the freedom many non-Calvinists believe men have. Indeed, Jesus even said that He spoke in parables so that many would not believe - only those to whom it was given would hear (Matthew 13:11-16).
Just trying to help you out a bit. After all, you don't want to look "Uneducated," do you? Well, perhaps you don't mind. It's best to be able to articulate one's thoughts, intelligently. But, that's just me.
Sorry, you haven't convinced me. However, don't give up hope, there are plenty of ignorant and naive folks out there ready to jump on anything that sounds "half way" feasible.
popsthebuilder
New member
Yes, it's quite obvious from your initial response that you only had the most sincere and innocent demeanor.
I'm certain you understood it regardless the spelling/ grammatical errors.
And to answer your point; I do not care what any man thinks of me and strive to articulate what I think to the best of my abilities. Spell check on tapatalk on my phone is a little quirky at times, and I obviously don't catch many errors.
Sincerely,
Peace
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popsthebuilder
New member
Is Calvinism refutation of free will, or admittance that regardless of the gift of free will, GOD, in His omniscience and omnipotence knows what will be chosen by each individual?
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Why should your fellow posters have to decipher what you're trying to say?
popsthebuilder
New member
Pretty sure I explained my scenario.
Perhaps you could answer my relevant post instead of worrying about how you presented yourself initially?
Thank you.
Peace
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There's a difference between having "Pre-knowledge" and purposely choosing the Elect before the foundation of the world. Can you see that difference?
nikolai_42
Well-known member
Fortunately, convincing you isn't my job.
EDIT : The only thing I add is that if Jesus was talking to exactly the same people in both cases, why say "ye" once and "thy children" the next time. Who is the "thy" of "thy children"?
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Presenting "Myself" initially? What does that mean?
popsthebuilder
New member
No.. Not really.
They are the same.
If God had the knowledge of exactly who will choose what and has given us the free will to turn either towards or from Him then that is the same as ordaining it to be so. Did GOD not ordain free will? Does GOD not know what we will choose?
Which do you refute in order to conclude that the course of man is ordained yet in his sight he has free choice?
Peace, thanks for replying.
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That's a good thing, right?
Well, if you and I can't even agree on one simple fact, there's no sense going any further, right?
nikolai_42
Well-known member
For both of us...yes.
However, Calvinists believe that God "Chose" before the foundation of the world, who would be part of the Elect, right? Therefore, it has nothing to do with humanities free will, but, God's choice of who would and who wouldn't be of the Elect, correct?
John Calvin was an extraordinary Bible scholar, so :wave:
God predetermined how He would conduct His will beforehand, foreknowing the events that would come. Therefore, He predetermined His elect.
That is why making a difference between 'foreknowledge' and 'predestination' is wrong. That doesn't even exist in traditional theology- it's funny because not only do you all not understand predestination, but you don't seem to have a good grasp on the contrary either.
popsthebuilder
New member
And what simple fact is that? Spell it out for me please.
Thank you
Peace
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