Does Calvinism Make God Unjust?

[popsthebuilder]

However, Calvinists believe that God "Chose" before the foundation of the world, who would be part of the Elect, right? Therefore, it has nothing to do with humanities free will, but, God's choice of who would and who wouldn't be of the Elect, correct?

You tell me?

Is free will observable?

Is it written in scripture that GOD ordained all?

What of free will? Are we not to serve and follow GOD? Is this not an offering or sacrifice of free will?

And if so; how does that in any way mean that GOD didn't know what or if you would offer up yourself for the Will of GOD?

Peace

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[Grosnick Marowbe]

John Calvin was an extraordinary Bible scholar, so :wave:



God predetermined how He would conduct His will beforehand, foreknowing the events that would come. Therefore, He predetermined His elect.
That is why making a difference between 'foreknowledge' and 'predestination' is wrong. That doesn't even exist in traditional theology- it's funny because not only do you all not understand predestination, but you don't seem to have a good grasp on the contrary either.

I enjoy observing a Calvinist use language in such an illogical manner, all the time believing that the hearer will buy everything that's being said. "Oh, what a tangled web we weave. When first we practice to deceive!" You folks really enjoy another form of old fashioned "Double talk" don't you? You should have been a "verbal stunt car driver." You twist and turn all over the place.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

And what simple fact is that? Spell it out for me please.

Thank you

Peace

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The way you write, I don't think I could match it. Therefore, I wouldn't be doing you justice by making an attempt. Understand? No way, not enough misspelled words, if ya know what I mean? Which again, you'd have a difficult time comprehending, for obvious reasons.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

The reason why some folks don't understand Calvinism is, in order to explain Calvinism one must reason and articulate on a very illogical train of thought. The average person has logical reasoning powers and cannot see things that are shared on an illogical plane. There's something of an abstract approach to teaching Calvinism that's not readily acceptable to the average mindset. The Calvinist is indoctrinated into reasoning on such a level, therefore, has no problem teaching what has been planted in their minds over a long period of time.

 

[popsthebuilder]

The way you write, I don't think I could match it. Therefore, I wouldn't be doing you justice by making an attempt. Understand? No way, not enough misspelled words, if ya know what I mean? Which again, you'd have a difficult time comprehending, for obvious reasons.

That's great smart...

Are you going to back up your claim or not?

What simple fact?

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[Crucible]

I enjoy observing a Calvinist use language in such an illogical manner, all the time believing that the hearer will buy everything that's being said. "Oh, what a tangled web we weave. When first we practice to deceive!" You folks really enjoy another form of old fashioned "Double talk" don't you? You should have been a "verbal stunt car driver." You twist and turn all over the place.

Calvinist theology is not very difficult to grasp. But with you all it's like trying to explain to a Muslim the Trinity- they don't want to understand it, so they refuse to. After a while, one simply comes to terms with the fact that you all simply depend on the constant explaining over and over so you can conflict it with your nonsense.

The only 'rebuttal', which is not one at all, that you all come up with is virtually a doctrine of Universalism. In other words, you never actually had an argument against it.

 

[popsthebuilder]

The reason why some folks don't understand Calvinism is, in order to explain Calvinism one must reason and articulate on a very illogical train of thought. The average person has logical reasoning powers and cannot see things that are shared on an illogical plane. There's something of an abstract approach to teaching Calvinism that's not readily acceptable to the average mindset. The Calvinist is indoctrinated into reasoning on such a level, therefore, has no problem teaching what has been planted in their minds over a long period of time.

Oh? Well then what of someone who was a logical sceptic and atheist for over 25 years who never was indoctrinated, yet easily understands the doctrine and sees that it is biblical?

Extenuating circumstance?

Were you able to understand me?

Peace

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[Grosnick Marowbe]

Personally, when I see a Calvinist present their wares, I see NO logic/reason or validity of what they're trying to share. The Bible presents humanity as having "free will" therefore, I accept and believe what it says. On the other hand, the Calvinist (with his special mind glasses on) sees NO free will.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Calvinist theology is not very difficult to grasp. But with you all it's like trying to explain to a Muslim the Trinity- they don't want to understand it, so they refuse to. After a while, one simply comes to terms with the fact that you all simply depend on the constant explaining over and over so you can conflict it with your nonsense.

The only 'rebuttal', which is not one at all, that you all come up with is virtually a doctrine of Universalism. In other words, you never actually had an argument against it.

Explain to me what I'm NOT understanding about Calvinism? I doubt you will.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Oh? Well then what of someone who was a logical sceptic and atheist for over 25 years who never was indoctrinated, yet easily understands the doctrine and sees that it is biblical?

Extenuating circumstance?

Were you able to understand me?

Peace

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You still need "Spell check" in your life. Name five people, that, you know personally, who were Atheists, then, started reading the Bible itself (without indoctrination) and embraced Calvinism?

 

[Crucible]

Explain to me what I'm NOT understanding about Calvinism? I doubt you will.

EVERYTHING

:rotfl:

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

It's been my experience to encounter a number of Calvinists. They ALL say the same thing: "Nobody truly understands Calvinism." Why would they all have that in common? Please explain that "Phenomena?"

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

EVERYTHING

:rotfl:

Ignorant comment. Silly, as well. According to your "belief system," God chose before the foundation of the world who would be of the Elect. Is that true or false?

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Your "belief system" also teaches that one must first be regenerated, then, they receive saving faith. Is that true or false? Nang says it's true.

 

[Crucible]

It's been my experience to encounter a number of Calvinists. They ALL say the same thing: "Nobody truly understands Calvinism." Why would they all have that in common? Please explain that "Phenomena?"

When I first joined, I noticed how fervently hostile a number of you were to Calvinism. I presumably thought there was a big reason for it, but then when I realized what that reason was, I didn't know whether to laugh or be disappointed by the lack of sense.

When they say 'nobody understands Calvinism', they are speaking of either those as yourself or people who simply have an entirely flawed perception of Christianity in general.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Hyper-Calvinists teach that God creates all sin. Is that true or false? B57 says it's true.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

When I first joined, I noticed how fervently hostile a number of you were to Calvinism. I presumably thought there was a big reason for it, but then when I realized what that reason was, I didn't know whether to laugh or be disappointed by the lack of sense.

When they say 'nobody understands Calvinism', they are speaking of either those as yourself or people who simply have an entirely flawed perception of Christianity in general.

Very unintelligent conclusion. You surprise me. Usually, Calvinists are brighter than you. You must be that "One in a Million?"

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

I'm done with you Cruc. You're more childlike than most Calvinists. AMR puts you to shame. You're off to "EGGNORE." (ignore.)

 

[popsthebuilder]

You still need "Spell check" in your life. Name five people, that, you know personally, who were Atheists, then, started reading the Bible itself (without indoctrination) and embraced Calvinism?

I was speaking of myself

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[Crucible]

I'm done with you Cruc. You're more childlike than most Calvinists. AMR puts you to shame. You're off to "EGGNORE." (ignore.)

Cool story, bro. I should've never taken you off my ignore list.
For the record, we see how you run away so you can continue to refuse reality :wave: