Does Calvinism Make God Unjust?

[Grosnick Marowbe]

The reality is that the word hell was mistranslated and has been misused for a long time.

Research it's origins and then ask yourself the same question you asked me.

Lake of fire... Second death/ cease to exist, not be tortured for eternity for finite sin.



Sent from my Z988 using Tapatalk

Revelation 20:10 "And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever."


Revelation 20:15 "And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire."

You'll notice that both verses state, the Devil, the beast, the false prophet and those whose names are not written in the Book of Life, were cast into the Lake of Fire to be tormented day and night forever and ever. It doesn't distinguish the devil, the false prophet, and the beast from those humans who are cast into the Lake of Fire. It doesn't say that either group is merely "ANNIHILATED." It's literal. I went through this years ago agonizing over the fact of an ETERNAL, Lake of Fire. I even rationalized that, the unsaved were just annihilated and that was the end of it. However, through seeking the truth, I came to the final conclusion that, The Lake of Fire is a real place and it is an ETERNAL place of damnation.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Or hastily attacking all who you think might not agree with you.

Sent from my Z988 using Tapatalk

Granted.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

The same could be said for your doctrine could it not.

According to you Paul is the only one out of the whole bible that promoted it, but really Paul was saying the same thing that all the rest of the bible says.

So... Yeah, what did you say to do about man-made doctrine?



Sent from my Z988 using Tapatalk

Of course, you are wrong. That fact doesn't make you a bad person, it merely makes you ignorant of the fact, there were two separate Messages being taught two thousand years ago. The Kingdom Message was being preached to the House of Israel (The Jews if you prefer) and The Grace Message which was being preached by Paul to the Gentiles.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

It proves that man has a will other than that will of GOD.

But that is no where near disproving the exponential amount of scriptural support for Calvinism.

Sent from my Z988 using Tapatalk

Well, bring it on then? Let's discuss those Scripture verses that PROVE Calvinism and why. The responsibility to prove what you're saying is on you now. If I can't answer certain questions, there are others around TOL that are more than capable. Not any one person has all the answers.

 

[Lon]

Well Lon, if nothing else you've proven to be as impossible to communicate with as any other Calvinist. Double talk upon double talk and the redefinition of common words. Pathetically, typical Calvinist drivel.

:nono: No. It is all about you and the REAL Open Theism so this is patently false and non-engaging drivel. It is, in fact, you being ignorant of facts, that I can link readily to (I already started with one and will continue one at a time). Read them. You are CLEARLY wrong. Again, about you: Indoctrinated, NOT logical (you are logical on a bit but there is cognitive dissonance going on to protect a doctrine that isn't even Open Theism, whatever it is).

I have no time to respond to this whole post this evening and I'm not at all sure I'm interested in responding to it at all but I'm sure I will anyway. But not today.

Better. Will look forward to it.

 

[Lon]

Aside from the irony of a Calvinist complaining about any event (weren't they all preordained?) there is something to be said for non-Calvinistic Christian sensibility if something that they do offends someone else. The non-Calvinist believes that they do have a choice in what they do, and that they would be willing to give up eating flesh and only eat plants if the alternative might cause their brother or sister to stumble.It would be a wonderful opportunity to demonstrate the real gospel of love.

This is simply a ploy, not an observation (because it isn't, in fact, a Calvinist observation). It is an assumption, not a fact. Now ask a Calvinist what he means/thinks and stop guessing for him? :think: Just a thought. One thing Christianity means to me, is to be as completely honest as possible and never fight dirty with a brother in Christ. Hold my feet to the fire, but I'm encouraging my actual brothers in Christ to walk in integrity, whether they are Calvinists or not.

 

[TulipBee]

:nono: No. It is all about you and the REAL Open Theism so this is patently false and non-engaging drivel. It is, in fact, you being ignorant of facts, that I can link readily to (I already started with one and will continue one at a time). Read them. You are CLEARLY wrong. Again, about you: Indoctrinated, NOT logical (you are logical on a bit but there is cognitive dissonance going on to protect a doctrine that isn't even Open Theism, whatever it is).
Better. Will look forward to it.

so clete is an open theist?

 

[popsthebuilder]

Try and be logical Pops? Emphasis on TRY. If the angels had NO free will of their own, then, why were they able to choose to rebel? On the same token, if Adam and Eve had NO free will how were they able to choose to rebel? Savvy Pops?

I didn't say they didn't have a will that differed from the Father. It is evident they did. It's also apparently that those who had that will abject to the Father that they where cast out... The angels that are now with GOD are wholly of GOD's will.

Do you think they where cast out yet some where left just for kicks?

Just because a third of the angels rebelled doesn't mean the ones that weren't cast out also secretly wish to rebel.

Peace

Sent from my Z988 using Tapatalk

 

[Robert Pate]

so clete is an open theist?

THEISM: The belief in, or the existence of God.

Something wrong with that?

 

[Lon]

The reality is that the word hell was mistranslated and has been misused for a long time.

Research it's origins and then ask yourself the same question you asked me.

Lake of fire... Second death/ cease to exist, not be tortured for eternity for finite sin.

:think: You have a few unorthodox views it'd seem. Probably worth a bit of discussion in another thread.

so clete is an open theist?

Yes, though he disagrees with a good number of them without realizing it.

THEISM: The belief in, or the existence of God.

Something wrong with that?

Not what she asked. Your post is pointless.

 

[Tambora]

Was it evil for Tambora to post it?

Nah.

Was it evil GM to create it?

Chatmaggot created it a long time ago.
I copied it from this thread:
http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?41922-Discussion-Enyart-vs-Ask-Mr-Religion-(One-on-One)

The post where the video first appears is #349.
Knight reposted it with comment, and then PKevman posted it again with comment.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

I didn't say they didn't have a will that differed from the Father. It is evident they did. It's also apparently that those who had that will abject to the Father that they where cast out... The angels that are now with GOD are wholly of GOD's will.

Do you think they where cast out yet some where left just for kicks?

Just because a third of the angels rebelled doesn't mean the ones that weren't cast out also secretly wish to rebel.

Peace

Sent from my Z988 using Tapatalk

Looks as if you have a VIVID imagination Pops. You should have written for "The Twilight Zone." You would have been a welcome participant.

 

[popsthebuilder]

Looks as if you have a VIVID imagination Pops. You should have written for "The Twilight Zone." You would have been a welcome participant.

Not imagination. Logic/ reason.

Why would God only cast out some of the angels if all had a will abject to GOD's will?

Sent from my Z988 using Tapatalk

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Not imagination. Logic/ reason.

Why would God only cast out some of the angels if all had a will abject to GOD's will?

Sent from my Z988 using Tapatalk

Not ALL the angels rebelled Pops. Why don't you get to the point Pops? Do you even have one? Next, you'll be asking: "Why does a Turtle have a shell?"

 

[Lon]

Nah.


Chatmaggot created it a long time ago.
I copied it from this thread:
http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?41922-Discussion-Enyart-vs-Ask-Mr-Religion-(One-on-One)

The post where the video first appears is #349.
Knight reposted it with comment, and then PKevman posted it again with comment.

Well, ChatM wasn't really ready for any kind of answer or redress or 'how could planned (for) evil be good?' He never did ask, just went ahead and posted that AMR and Nang were evil for believing it without knowing or caring why. God DID plan my wife's cancer AND to His goodwill. "EVIL!" says Chat. :nono: I assure you that God's plan, THROUGH my wife's cancer were good. It is NOT God's decretive will that cancer exists. It is His prescriptive will that cancer exists. An Open Theist, totally not understanding divine definite foreknowledge, won't catch the point, but, as I said, no one ever asked/didn't really want to know. Plugging ears is like that where "EVIL!" is sadly 'good enough.' No. No it is not good enough and if done after the first harm, can be evil itself for the repeated harm done. Is it harm here? It might be, harm, that is. Evil? Well in the sense that harm is often meant by evil, but I wouldn't think with harm intent, though certainly harm against what isn't understood. Such is prejudice that ever paints 'the other guy/gal.' I just never want to be accused of that because I don't want to be unfair in a hasty judgment. It is my desire to love first (and thank you all whenever I fail, love does cover a multitude of ill/sin). -Lon

 

[TulipBee]

:think: You have a few unorthodox views it'd seem. Probably worth a bit of discussion in another thread.


Yes, though he disagrees with a good number of them without realizing it.


Not what she asked. Your post is pointless.

is pate an open theist?

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

THEISM: The belief in, or the existence of God.

Something wrong with that?

There is a wee bit more to the open theism view than what you are implying:

http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...o-you-think-of-it/page4&p=3415136#post3415136

:AMR:

AMR

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

is pate an open theist?

If Robert aligns with following, he would be well on his way to being an open theist:

Some basic open theist tenets:
1. God not only created the world ex nihilo but can (and at times does) intervene unilaterally in earthly affairs.
2. God chose to create mankind with incompatibilistic (libertarian) freedom—freedom over which He cannot exercise total control.
3. God so values freedom—the moral integrity of free creatures and a world in which such integrity is possible—that He does not normally override such freedom, even if He sees that it is producing undesirable results.
4. God always desires the highest good, both individually and corporately, and thus is affected by what happens in our lives.
5. God does not possess exhaustive foreknowledge of exactly how we will utilize our freedom, although He may at times be able to predict with great accuracy the choices we will freely make.

[Src: David Basinger in Pinnock’s The Openness of God]
​

Nevertheless, especially within the confines of TOL, one will find differences of opinion on these basic tenets. For example, there are open theists who will disagree that all of the future is unknowable to God, or that God will never override the libertarian free will of His creatures. See also TOL discussion here.

AMR

 

[fishrovmen]

is pate an open theist?

Pate is open to any theology that tickles his itching ears. If it contradicts itself and doesn't make any sense, all the better for him.

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

Lake of fire... Second death/ cease to exist, not be tortured for eternity for finite sin.

No one in Hell is repenting. Hell's residents continue to gnash their teeth at God, fists clenched upwards, hence by their continual sin they are punished everlastingly. If someone genuinely repented (in the Biblical sense) for their sin, versus what is but mere human regret, they would know that they are exactly where they should be and would be praying for the mercy of God, knowing they do not deserve mercy. That simply does not happen. In effect, the gates of hell are locked from the inside.

AMR