ECT Do those who believe MAD believe the Apostle Paul was a liar ?

[Danoh]

You're a real hep cat with the lingo, daddy-o.

 

[God's Truth]

Yes, and you said NO to his post of the scripture that shows that you have an incomplete understanding of everything.


Your typical childish questions.


You do not understand all of the various aspects of the kingdom(s) of God.

You are telling untruths about me. I do not say no to the scriptures.

How about you explain all those various aspects of the kingdoms of God.

How about you explain why you do not except Jesus ruling now even though the scriptures say all authority has been given him?

 

[Interplanner]

You are telling untruths about me. I do not say no to the scriptures.

How about you explain all those various aspects of the kingdoms of God.

How about you explain why you do not except Jesus ruling now even though the scriptures say all authority has been given him?

There might be aspects, but all we need to know about is Daniel's in ch 2.

 

[God's Truth]

There might be aspects, but all we need to know about is Daniel's in ch 2.

What do you mean there might be aspects?

 

[way 2 go]

The point is that the if the Gospel of grace started with Paul NONE of the folks that were saved before Paul could have gotten saved UNLESS a second gospel is fabricated just for that purpose.

repent for the kingdom is at hand ?

There is only ONE Gospel that ends in salvation ( GRACE ) in scripture and Jesus' blood did not just save those at that time it reached backward and forward in time so NO ONE that has, was , or will ever be saved is saved unless they have been saved by the blood of Jesus.

Gods grace is absolutely necessary.

what is necessary from you , faith or faith + works ?

 

[Interplanner]

repent for the kingdom is at hand ?



Gods grace is absolutely necessary.

what is necessary from you , faith or faith + works ?

The other gospel that 2P2P imagines has the inherent contradiction of not really needing any qualification for membership--ie, to be 'saved'. Why wouldn't ALL Jews just automatically be in it--the kingdom of heaven that was being offered, because of their race? And if they had to repent to be in it, what about the messy business of atonement? Was that going to continue to be animal or God? And if anyone went around in public and said that a state authority type kingdom was about to be implemented, it was pretty much a declaration of war. So I find the whole 2P2P schtick to have these serious problems?

It is hardly a question of faith vs faith + works. You need to work out what 'saved' meant and work back from that.

 

[dodge]

repent for the kingdom is at hand ?



Gods grace is absolutely necessary.

what is necessary from you , faith or faith + works ?

Folks that are saved want to please God and obey God because they are saved NOT to be saved. Eph.2:8-10

 

[way 2 go]

The other gospel that 2P2P imagines has the inherent contradiction of not really needing any qualification for membership--ie, to be 'saved'. Why wouldn't ALL Jews just automatically be in it--the kingdom of heaven that was being offered, because of their race?

Mat_15:24 He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

And if they had to repent to be in it, what about the messy business of atonement?

Mat_4:17 From that time Jesus began to preach, saying, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.”

And if anyone went around in public and said that a state authority type kingdom was about to be implemented, it was pretty much a declaration of war. So I find the whole 2P2P schtick to have these serious problems?

your are preterist , 1000 yr reign still future

It is hardly a question of faith vs faith + works. You need to work out what 'saved' meant and work back from that.

Gen 15:5 And he brought him outside and said, "Look toward heaven, and number the stars, if you are able to number them." Then he said to him, "So shall your offspring be."
Gen 15:6 And he believed the LORD, and he counted it to him as righteousness.

Gen 17:10 This is my covenant, which you shall keep, between me and you and your offspring after you: Every male among you shall be circumcised.

Rom_4:16 That is why it depends on faith, in order that the promise may rest on grace and be guaranteed to all his offspring—not only to the adherent of the law but also to the one who shares the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all,

 

[God's Truth]

Folks that are saved want to please God and obey God because they are saved NOT to be saved. Eph.2:8-10

There is no wrong time to obey. Jesus is the Way, and he tells us what we have to do to enter. We have to do something. Faith alone is dead and cannot save anyone. Even the demons know that God is One, and they do something, they shudder.

 

[God's Truth]

repent for the kingdom is at hand ?



Gods grace is absolutely necessary.

what is necessary from you , faith or faith + works ?

Why put down obedience?

Jesus came to earth and taught the rules and regulations for the new covenant, and then he shed his blood on the cross for the new covenant. Blood covenants must be followed exactly.

Faith and no works is about the ceremonial/purification works. Paul never said faith and no obedience. The works Paul was speaking about is the ceremonial works. Just look near by all the scriptures that say by faith, circumcision is near by. Circumcision is the seal, the sign that a person has entered the covenant, the old covenant, and it is the sign that they will do all the other works, such as offer animals.

 

[glorydaz]

You are telling untruths about me. I do not say no to the scriptures.

How about you explain all those various aspects of the kingdoms of God.

How about you explain why you do not except Jesus ruling now even though the scriptures say all authority has been given him?

Are all His enemies under His feet yet? Look around you....at the world. Do you see Christ's enemies under His feet?

Heb. 2:8 Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him.​

If you would have bothered to read the link John W. gave you, or paid attention to what others have shown you, you'd know that "Not yet all things put under Him." Instead you skim right past any verses offered, and you flat out ignore what others tell you, BECAUSE you are so filled with pride you think YOU are the great teacher. It's a shame.

 

[Interplanner]

Mat_15:24 He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

Mat_4:17 From that time Jesus began to preach, saying, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.”



your are preterist , 1000 yr reign still future


Gen 15:5 And he brought him outside and said, "Look toward heaven, and number the stars, if you are able to number them." Then he said to him, "So shall your offspring be."
Gen 15:6 And he believed the LORD, and he counted it to him as righteousness.

Gen 17:10 This is my covenant, which you shall keep, between me and you and your offspring after you: Every male among you shall be circumcised.

Rom_4:16 That is why it depends on faith, in order that the promise may rest on grace and be guaranteed to all his offspring—not only to the adherent of the law but also to the one who shares the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all,

Sorry but none of what your wrote answers my questions.

The one statement about the house of Israel hardly describes what happened does it?

 

[God's Truth]

The other gospel that 2P2P imagines has the inherent contradiction of not really needing any qualification for membership--ie, to be 'saved'. Why wouldn't ALL Jews just automatically be in it--the kingdom of heaven that was being offered, because of their race? And if they had to repent to be in it, what about the messy business of atonement? Was that going to continue to be animal or God? And if anyone went around in public and said that a state authority type kingdom was about to be implemented, it was pretty much a declaration of war. So I find the whole 2P2P schtick to have these serious problems?

It is hardly a question of faith vs faith + works. You need to work out what 'saved' meant and work back from that.

You make some excellent points. You tackled the madists beliefs, but you also addressed a major nonsense of the Calvinists. Both groups need to look deeper. Why did the Jews not accept Jesus? Why do Calvinists think that God does not like those in the Pharisee profession but has chosen tax collectors.

The Jews who rejected Jesus didn't believe that a man's blood would atone for their sins they wanted to keep offering animals. The Pharisees went against Jesus because they were prideful and they didn't want to have temple and nation taken away.

John 11:48 If we let him go on like this, everyone will believe in him, and then the Romans will come and take away both our temple and our nation."

 

[God's Truth]

Are all His enemies under His feet yet? Look around you....at the world. Do you see Christ's enemies under His feet?

What are you talking about? Jesus is going to rule until all his enemies are put under his feet.

Jesus conquered death, but now he still has to give us all new bodies.

Jesus is the firstfruits.

Heb. 2:8 Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him.​

If you would have bothered to read the link John W. gave you, or paid attention to what others have shown you, you'd know that "Not yet all things put under Him." Instead you skim right past any verses offered, and you flat out ignore what others tell you, BECAUSE you are so filled with pride you think YOU are the great teacher. It's a shame.

You are the one ignoring the truth.

Jesus is the Firstfruits. He has conquered death. When Jesus comes again, it will be at the resurrection of the dead---then he will throw death and hades in the lake of fire---THEN IT IS OVER. But you think no. Why don't you explain how he is going to live on this world for awhile and do what? Why don't you explain it.

 

[glorydaz]

There is no wrong time to obey. Jesus is the Way, and he tells us what we have to do to enter. We have to do something. Faith alone is dead and cannot save anyone. Even the demons know that God is One, and they do something, they shudder.

The demons have head knowledge....they shudder.

You have your own obedience, God's UNtruth, and your faith is in your obedience....you should shudder.

Ezekiel 33:13 When I shall say to the righteous, that he shall surely live; if he trust to his own righteousness, and commit iniquity, all his righteousnesses shall not be remembered; but for his iniquity that he hath committed, he shall die for it.​

Like the Jews, God's UNtruth has great ZEAL....but has not submitted to the righteousness of God. She goes about trying to establish her own righteousness.

Romans 10:3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.​

Be found IN HIM....through the righteousness of the FAITH OF CHRIST.

Philippians 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:​

 

[glorydaz]

What are you talking about? Jesus is going to rule until all his enemies are put under his feet.

Jesus conquered death, but now he still has to give us all new bodies.

Jesus is the firstfruits.


You are the one ignoring the truth.

Jesus is the Firstfruits. He has conquered death. When Jesus comes again, it will be at the resurrection of the dead---then he will throw death and hades in the lake of fire---THEN IT IS OVER. But you think no. Why don't you explain how he is going to live on this world for awhile and do what? Why don't you explain it.

You're ignoring something again. I notice you always want to change the subject when you are trying to IGNORE what was pointed out to you. Here it is again.

But now we see not yet all things put under him.

 

[God's Truth]

You're ignoring something again. I notice you always want to change the subject when you are trying to IGNORE what was pointed out to you. Here it is again.

But now we see not yet all things put under him.

JESUS conquered death.

He is the Firstfruits.

WHEN HE COMES AGAIN, he will raise EVERYONE with new bodies.

THEN he will throw death and hell in the lake of fire.

THEN THE END WILL COME because all will be under him.

 

[God's Truth]

The demons have head knowledge....they shudder

They do something. They shudder.

You have your own obedience, God's UNtruth, and your faith is in your obedience....you should shudder.

You merely have faith in your faith. I have faith in every word of God. I have faith in him so much so that I do what he says.

Ezekiel 33:13 When I shall say to the righteous, that he shall surely live; if he trust to his own righteousness, and commit iniquity, all his righteousnesses shall not be remembered; but for his iniquity that he hath committed, he shall die for it.​

Like the Jews, God's UNtruth has great ZEAL....but has not submitted to the righteousness of God.

That is not true. I know that Jesus' blood cleaned me.

She goes about trying to establish her own righteousness.

It is not my works that I am doing, it is Jesus' works.

Romans 10:3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.​

Do you not grasp how the Jews had to establish their own? They had to do various external washings and give animal sacrifices. They did not accept it that Jesus' blood cleaned them once and for all and just by believing it does. Faith does not mean no more obedience, it means no more cleaning yourself just to go to a temple where God's Spirit was. It means we are clean once and for all and we become the temple.

 

[Danoh]

You're ignoring something again. I notice you always want to change the subject when you are trying to IGNORE what was pointed out to you. Here it is again.

But now we see not yet all things put under him.

Not what I am picking up on.

What I am picking up is that she has difficulty keeping clear in her mind what is asked from her from one post to the next.

This very pattern is also the very root of how she has ended up at understandings of some passages that other passages clearly prove her off-based in, but that she is simply ill-suited to the task often called for - the often need multi-tasking of various passages...at the same time.

The old "Whoa! Slow your row there, some! You're throwing too much at me at the same time!" that one often hears in the new beginner who actually becomes aware during such moments that he is unable to take in so much all at once, so soon.

Her problem?

She is so ill-suited to the required task at hand that she can't even see she has run into this very problem when she encounters it.

As a result, though she appears to have intentionally changed the subject; her above described pattern actually reveals she not only never really perceived what was asked of her, but never really perceived she never really perceived it.

Case in point - I am defending her here; given this handicap I perceive in her via her recurrent patterns.

A perception of an unintetional handicap on her part, I have yet to attribute to anyone else on TOL.

True to the form of this recurrent pattern of her, she will now perceive something other than my intent.

And by that; not only taking my intent wrong; but proving my very point.

In this, she actually is much like the "him that is weak in the faith receive ye; but not to doubtful disputations" against such, that Paul describes in Romans 14.

I believe her asertion of "oh how I love the Word of God!"

I believe that she means that with every fiber of her being.

But within her obvious impediment.

We would each do well in the sight of God, to turn to what IS "for us" there in Romans 14, as to the rules of thumb for dealing with such an one so "weak in the faith" - in their understanding of - the various details of things within the faith, how they work, what goes where, when, as to who, why and how...

Romans 14:1 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations. 14:2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs. 14:3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him. 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand. 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. 14:6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks. 14:7 For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself. 14:8 For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's. 14:9 For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living. 14:10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. 14:11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God. 14:12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God. 14:13 Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way. 14:14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean. 14:15 But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died. 14:16 Let not then your good be evil spoken of: 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost. 14:18 For he that in these things serveth Christ is acceptable to God, and approved of men. 14:19 Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another. 14:20 For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence. 14:21 It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak. 14:22 Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth. 14:23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

 

[dodge]

There is no wrong time to obey. Jesus is the Way, and he tells us what we have to do to enter. We have to do something. Faith alone is dead and cannot save anyone. Even the demons know that God is One, and they do something, they shudder.

GT,How you got there is a wrong time to obey out of what I posted I don't have a clue.

What I posted goes right along with how saved folks live and why they want to please God . Eph.2:8-10.