Denver Bible Church

[Delmar]

I am real, Denver Bible is not a Church it is a 501c3 Corporation. I challenge you to prove me wrong.

I only visited once, but the time I was there the God of the Bible was worshiped and the word of God was preached. I'm pretty sure an offering basket was passed, but no corporate meetings broke out that I noticed.

 

[obsolete53]

The burden of proof is on you, newbie.

dear senile i sent an email to denver bible church and they said they were a 501c3 corp. and even told me what what their id no. is. among other things i sent dbc this information from irs pub 1828 page 3 and i quote : "recognition of tax exempt status------ automatic exemption for churches ----- churches that meet the requirements of irc section 501[c][3] are automatically considered tax exempt and are not required to apply for and obtain recognition of tax- exempt status from the irs. Therefore what I am saying is that dbc did not have to put it's self under the yoke of the irs to have tax-exempt status. Now they are obligated to do whatever the irs tells them to do. so when not if the irs starts telling 501c3 corps. that they may not say anything negative about homos or abortion, dbc will be obligated to be silent, because when they got their 501c3 status they forfeited their God given right to free speech. is it a Church or a state church?

 

[Mr. 5020]

dear senile i sent an email to denver bible church and they said they were a 501c3 corp. and even told me what what their id no. is. among other things i sent dbc this information from irs pub 1828 page 3 and i quote : "recognition of tax exempt status------ automatic exemption for churches ----- churches that meet the requirements of irc section 501[c][3] are automatically considered tax exempt and are not required to apply for and obtain recognition of tax- exempt status from the irs. Therefore what I am saying is that dbc did not have to put it's self under the yoke of the irs to have tax-exempt status. Now they are obligated to do whatever the irs tells them to do. so when not if the irs starts telling 501c3 corps. that they may not say anything negative about homos or abortion, dbc will be obligated to be silent, because when they got their 501c3 status they forfeited their God given right to free speech. is it a Church or a state church?

Right now, being a 501c3 organization allows their members to claim their donations on the annual tax returns. It also makes them exempt from paying taxes. It is a great perk; however, should keeping that title cause DBC to compromise in any way, I am sure that they would rather pay taxes.

 

[Nick M]

There are also at least three or so other churches in the Denver area that have similar theology to DBC.

Who?

There ya have it folks a trinity of awesome churches that all come together at TheologyOnline.com

- Open Fellowship Bible Church
- Damascus Road Bible Fellowship
and...
- Denver Bible Church

Close enough, even if not in Denver.

@ Lucky: You sent me a PM, but I cant reply So, to answer your question: I'm flying in from the Netherlands... Yep, the first country in the world that allowed homo marriage, loves abortion and more of that evil stuff. No wonder I'm heading to Denver!!!!

What are you doing in the Netherlands? They are favored nation status, but not a favored nation. Know what I mean? A job?

Come to Denver and say that! :noid:

BTW...Two Superbowls back to back with Elway...so :nananana:

I did, for 9 years. You need to thank Terrel Davis and the line that blocked for him. I will give him this though. Dan Reeves said they will pay no attention to Elway, and focus soley on Davis. Dumb move, but it was Reeves afterall. And when Reeves looked away, Elway clobbered him. Prior to that game, Elway was one of the worst performing Superbowl quarterbacks ever. Including the win over Green Bay, where Davis got it done. Back on the subject.

I guess Satan's pawn can be like a broken clock too.

At Denver Bible Church we learn that abortion is murder, the death penalty is good, homosexuality is an abomination, public schools are evil, evolution is a lie, and atheists are fools.

Because that is all true. Funny thing, I was told the same thing in a Catholic elementary school. To bad they pray to other humans, among other things.

If I am in Denver again, I will stop in to hear the good news. I think Bob Enyart is good, in that he says what needs to be said, without hedging. That is admirable.

 

[obsolete53]

Right now, being a 501c3 organization allows their members to claim their donations on the annual tax returns. It also makes them exempt from paying taxes. It is a great perk; however, should keeping that title cause DBC to compromise in any way, I am sure that they would rather pay taxes.

maybe you do not understand what i posted. i showed that the irs themselves state that a church is automatically exempt from taxation and need not apply to the irs for tax-exempt status. on page 4 of irs pub 1828 it says the following with reference to tax deductible contributions: " Note that not every organization that is eligible to receive tax-deductible contributions is listed in Publication 78. For example churches that have not applied for recognition of tax-exempt status are not included in the publication." Therefore according to the irs' own publication a church does not have to apply for tax-exempt status to be exempt from tax, and it can receive tax-deductible contributions. So your two arguments for a church signing up with the irs are null and void. Also on page 3 of pub 1828 it states the following: " no substantial part of it's activity may be attempting to influence legislation, the organization may not intervene in political campaigns, and the organization's purposes and activities may not be illegal or violate fundamental public policy. " a church that does not bend the knee to the irs has automatic tax-exemption, can receive tax-deductible contributions, but is not under the above irs restrictions.

 

[Nick M]

Also on page 3 of pub 1828 it states the following: " no substantial part of it's activity may be attempting to influence legislation, the organization may not intervene in political campaigns, and the organization's purposes and activities may not be illegal or violate fundamental public policy. "

Sounds like Jesse Jackson is in some trouble then.

Do you even read the first page of this nonsense you are bringing in here? This is under "churches and religious orginizations"

http://www.irs.gov/charities/charitable/article/0,,id=96099,00.html

To be organized exclusively for a charitable purpose, the organization must be a corporation, community chest, fund, or foundation. A charitable trust is a fund or foundation and will qualify. However, an individual will not qualify. The organizing documents must limit the organization's purposes to exempt purposes set forth in section 501(c)(3) and must not expressly empower it to engage, other than as an insubstantial part of its activities, in activities that are not in furtherance of one or more of those purposes. This requirement may be met if the purposes stated in the organizing documents are limited in some way by reference to section 501(c)(3). In addition, an organization's assets must be permanently dedicated to an exempt purpose. This means that if an organization dissolves, its assets must be distributed for an exempt purpose, to the federal government, or to a state or local government for a public purpose. To establish that an organization's assets will be permanently dedicated to an exempt purpose, its organizing documents should contain a provision insuring their distribution for an exempt purpose in the event of dissolution. Although reliance may be placed upon state law to establish permanent dedication of assets for exempt purposes, an organization's application can be processed by the IRS more rapidly if its organizing documents include a provision insuring permanent dedication of assets for exempt purposes. For examples of provisions that meet these requirements, see Publication 557, Tax-Exempt Status for Your Organization.

Why are you even bringing this up? Looks to me like the Denver Bible Church read the rules first, and you didn't.

 

[obsolete53]

The burden of proof is on you, newbie.

how can i prove myself wrong?

 

[obsolete53]

Sounds like Jesse Jackson is in some trouble then.

Do you even read the first page of this nonsense you are bringing in here? This is under "churches and religious orginizations"

http://www.irs.gov/charities/charitable/article/0,,id=96099,00.html



Why are you even bringing this up? Looks to me like the Denver Bible Church read the rules first, and you didn't.

what you have shown are rules that apply to organizations that want to become 591c3 corporations. my point which i thought was clear is that the irs recognizes that churches are automatically exempt from taxation, and may receive tax-deductible contributions. therefore a church need not become a 501c3 corp. in the first place. you have ignored or not grasped the meaning of the parts of irs pub 1828 that i sighted because your post does not address them.

 

[obsolete53]

I only visited once, but the time I was there the God of the Bible was worshiped and the word of God was preached. I'm pretty sure an offering basket was passed, but no corporate meetings broke out that I noticed.

so you are saying that you know if an organization is a corporation or not by whether a corporate meeting breaks out? your evidence is impotent.

 

[Nick M]

what you have shown are rules that apply to organizations that want to become 591c3 corporations.

I read the pubs after you said incorrect things about them. That is why I posted what you intentionally left out.

That is not for those that want to be a 591c3. Read it again. This if for churches and religious organizations. As they do not have to be tax exempt. This is how you get it. This is why it says if the orginization dissolves, they have to give it (assests) all way. I am done here.

Exemption Requirements
To be organized exclusively for a charitable purpose, the organization must be a corporation, community chest, fund, or foundation. A charitable trust is a fund or foundation and will qualify. However, an individual will not qualify. The organizing documents must limit the organization's purposes to exempt purposes set forth in section 501(c)(3) and must not expressly empower it to engage, other than as an insubstantial part of its activities, in activities that are not in furtherance of one or more of those purposes.

 

[Aethril]

dear senile i sent an email to denver bible church and they said they were a 501c3 corp. and even told me what what their id no. is. among other things i sent dbc this information from irs pub 1828 page 3 and i quote : "recognition of tax exempt status------ automatic exemption for churches ----- churches that meet the requirements of irc section 501[c][3] are automatically considered tax exempt and are not required to apply for and obtain recognition of tax- exempt status from the irs. Therefore what I am saying is that dbc did not have to put it's self under the yoke of the irs to have tax-exempt status. Now they are obligated to do whatever the irs tells them to do. so when not if the irs starts telling 501c3 corps. that they may not say anything negative about homos or abortion, dbc will be obligated to be silent, because when they got their 501c3 status they forfeited their God given right to free speech. is it a Church or a state church?

Do you also argue about what color the church carpet should be?

 

[Servo]

Do you also argue about what color the church carpet should be?

If it is a mega-church its gotta be mauve or purple. :chuckle:

BTW..DBC (not a mega-church) meets in a gym and uses folding chairs.

 

[Aethril]

If it is a mega-church its gotta be mauve or purple. :chuckle:

BTW..DBC (not a mega-church) meets in a gym and uses folding chairs.

WHAT!? No Carpet, No Pews, No Church. Looks like obsolete53 was right all along.

 

[obsolete53]

Hmmm. :think: It seemed like a real church when I attended on 8/12. Dang! Everyone sitting there singing hymns and praying...and the preaching really had me fooled!

I agree.

 

[obsolete53]

I read the pubs after you said incorrect things about them. That is why I posted what you intentionally left out.

That is not for those that want to be a 591c3. Read it again. This if for churches and religious organizations. As they do not have to be tax exempt. This is how you get it. This is why it says if the orginization dissolves, they have to give it (assests) all way. I am done here.

The section you sight applies to churches and religious organizations who are 501c3 corporations. It does not apply to churches and religious organizations that are not 501c3 corporations. Are you saying that in irs pub 1828 page 3 it does not say that churches are automatically tax-exempt and need not apply to the irs for such? You need to think outside the 501c3 box.
.

 

[Nick M]

The section you sight applies to churches and religious organizations who are 501c3 corporations. It does not apply to churches and religious organizations that are not 501c3 corporations. Are you saying that in irs pub 1828 page 3 it does not say that churches are automatically tax-exempt and need not apply to the irs for such? You need to think outside the 501c3 box.
.

 

[Servo]

The section you sight applies to churches and religious organizations who are 501c3 corporations. It does not apply to churches and religious organizations that are not 501c3 corporations. Are you saying that in irs pub 1828 page 3 it does not say that churches are automatically tax-exempt and need not apply to the irs for such? You need to think outside the 501c3 box.
.

What are you trying to accomplish with all of this exactly? Should DBC be reported to the IRS since they talk about politics and are tax exempt? Is that your point?

 

[Ktoyou]

What are you trying to accomplish with all of this exactly? Should DBC be reported to the IRS since they talk about politics and are tax exempt? Is that your point?

Good point:thumb:

 

[obsolete53]

What are you trying to accomplish with all of this exactly? Should DBC be reported to the IRS since they talk about politics and are tax exempt? Is that your point?

My point is to be a watchman on the wall. I do not know if DBC talks about politics or not, or if they violate any IRS rules or not, I have never attended DBC. All of my life I have attended churches that are 501c3. When I realized that these churches were on the wrong track ,I stopped going to church. I emailed DBC about this issue because I was hoping it was not a 501c3 and I could find a church home. I believe that the Bible covers all situations at all times, and that ministers of God should speak out boldly and truthfully about all the subjects of life. When a church becomes a 501c3 they put their church under the headship of the IRS, and are subject to their rules and restrictions. Those rules and restrictions I believe will become more and more oppressive. DBC has made a lawful contract with the IRS to abide by the provisions of IRS section 501c3. Therefore if DBC was looking to employ a person at the church, and they had an otherwise qualified candidate, who was a homo, and the rules of 501c3 say no discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation, then DBC would find themselves in a self imposed bind, it would be wrong for them to hire a homo on the one hand, on the other hand they have made a contract with the IRS, and God requires Christians to honestly honor their contractual obligations. Sin if you do, sin if you don't. The whole situation makes me sad.

 

[obsolete53]

What about automatic exemption for churches don't you get?