Creation vs. Evolution

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Stuu

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All I have said is that death was not present in the garden of eden.
So your god is unspeakably sadistic; it has invented a whole host of species that are parasites, many of which inflict pain specifically on humans.

The claims of compassion and forgiveness attributed to Jesus as god are a patent lie, given this created brutality and lack of compassion for humans displayed by the monster you apparently worship.

Why aren't we declaring war on this god, at least for the sake of public health?

Stuart
 

Jacob

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Sure, the commentators do deviate from the action for a short time.

Stuart
Peter and Paul (and Barnabas) agree that the Spirit of God coming upon a person does not depend upon circumcision, so entrance into the family of God cannot be by circumcision. Remember, Peter was not preaching that a person could only become a part of the people of God through circumcision and the law of Moses. And the apostles agreed, with James giving the answer at this "council".
 

Jacob

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So your god is unspeakably sadistic; it has invented a whole host of species that are parasites, many of which inflict pain specifically on humans.

The claims of compassion and forgiveness attributed to Jesus as god are a patent lie, given this created brutality and lack of compassion for humans displayed by the monster you apparently worship.

Why aren't we declaring war on this god, at least for the sake of public health?

Stuart
A lack of death is not sadistic. I don't know what you are talking about.
 

Stuu

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Peter and Paul (and Barnabas) agree that the Spirit of God coming upon a person does not depend upon circumcision, so entrance into the family of God cannot be by circumcision. Remember, Peter was not preaching that a person could only become a part of the people of God through circumcision and the law of Moses. And the apostles agreed, with James giving the answer at this "council".
I think Saul was a bit of a street fighter and he could have taken Simon Peter out. But it doesn't say how many rounds it went.

The language is strong enough to indicate that feelings must have been bitter as hell.

Stuart
 

Jacob

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I think Saul was a bit of a street fighter and he could have taken Simon Peter out. But it doesn't say how many rounds it went.

The language is strong enough to indicate that feelings must have been bitter as hell.

Stuart
Not here. That they had a disagreement later (Paul addressed an error in Peter's behavior) they both knew the truth as evidenced here in Acts.
 

Jacob

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Do you think that your god isn't responsible for the Guinea worm, or pain in humans?

Stuart
No, He created all creatures, including man. And that we experience pain is His doing. Perhaps also the result of our sin, was my point.
 

Stuu

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No, He created all creatures, including man. And that we experience pain is His doing. Perhaps also the result of our sin, was my point.
Right, so your god is sadistic. It could have prevented humans suffering the pain of Guinea worms crawling out from under the skin, but it chose not to.

Stuart
 

Jacob

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Right, so your god is sadistic. It could have prevented humans suffering the pain of Guinea worms crawling out from under the skin, but it chose not to.

Stuart
No. Man chose to experience death rather than life. I believe pain is a part of that.

In Jesus Christ we have the second Adam, the second man, and life from the dead.
 

alwight

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No, He created all creatures, including man. And that we experience pain is His doing. Perhaps also the result of our sin, was my point.
My point is that life has evolved and that therefore pain and hardships would be expected in life's struggle to compete with other forms of life.
Which indeed it does.
Far from there being signs of God, life in fact shows every reason to conclude that no signs of Godly endeavour exist, only what we might expect from a natural world with evolved life.
 

Stuu

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No. Man chose to experience death rather than life. I believe pain is a part of that.
But your god had made the Guinea worm, and knew that it would cause pain, and presumably knew already that humans would end up in this situation. That is sadistic.

In Jesus Christ we have the second Adam, the second man, and life from the dead.
So you think that believers in Jesus won't suffer pain if infected with Guinea worms??

Or will we only be finally rid of the pain of parasites invented by your god when your god decides to do some judging and burning of some humans in sulfur?

Stuart
 

Jacob

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You mean the incident in Galatians 2, I take it.

Stuart
In particular Galatians 2:11, yes. Paul in Galatians 2 is talking about a different event, as I understand it, where Peter's actions betrayed his fear rather than that which was true. Paul didn't want the gospel compromised, and he himself knew or feared that this was what was happening... so he addressed Peter in the presence of all on the matter.

In Matthew 18 we read that a person who has a disagreement with someone should talk first with that person privately. But it might have been a similar situation to what I have experienced here on TOL where I don't always know if it would be better to send a pm, concede a point, or post a response on the forum. I think generally since there is nothing to hide it is okay, but I don't know if Paul did or did not first speak with Peter privately (it is not recorded that he did).
 

Jacob

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My point is that life has evolved and that therefore pain and hardships would be expected in life's struggle to compete with other forms of life.
Which indeed it does.
Far from there being signs of God, life in fact shows every reason to conclude that no signs of Godly endeavour exist, only what we might expect from a natural world with evolved life.
I believe the only reason there would be a struggle is because of sin.
 

Jacob

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But your god had made the Guinea worm, and knew that it would cause pain, and presumably knew already that humans would end up in this situation. That is sadistic.
Not that He "knew we would end up in this situation"... but instead that he punished (judged) according to what He had promised (that which satan said would not occur).
So you think that believers in Jesus won't suffer pain if infected with Guinea worms??
I'm not speaking to that and I don't know what underlies your question.
Or will we only be finally rid of the pain of parasites invented by your god when your god decides to do some judging and burning of some humans in sulfur?

Stuart
The wrath of God is real. But remember, for those who repent and put their trust and faith in God... they will not experience the wrath of God (or at least will be rescued from it, or are being rescued from it even now).

1 Thessalonians 1:10 NASB - and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, that is Jesus, who rescues us from the wrath to come.
 

Stuu

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Not that He "knew we would end up in this situation"... but instead that he punished (judged) according to what He had promised (that which satan said would not occur).
But you have an entire species of animal, us humans, that suffers unbearable pain if infected by Guinea worms, and none of us is responsible for choices made by the supposed Adam and Eve. Clearly, as well as being sadistic, your god isn't a just god. This is not morality as we understand it.

I'm not speaking to that and I don't know what underlies your question.
Why did you mention Jesus in response to a question about pain inflicted by Guinea worms?

The wrath of God is real. But remember, for those who repent and put their trust and faith in God... they will not experience the wrath of God (or at least will be rescued from it).

1 Thessalonians 1:10 NASB - and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, that is Jesus, who rescues us from the wrath to come.
And what is the justification for this "wrath"? Is this god angry at itself for making humans capable of defying it?? And how ridiculous is it to have the god come here in human form to rescue us from its own wrath?

I think we are up to sadistic and patently unjust, and now can add totalitarian to the characteristics of your god "evident in its creation", and in its "word".

Stuart
 

Stuu

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Did God create sin if He created everything?
Apparently James 1:13 is popular in this apologetics situation, although it doesn't actually deal with the origins of "sin".

But probably Genesis 22:1, 2 Samuel 24:1 and Matthew 6:13 don't get such a high-profile mention regarding whether the Judeo-christian god might induce sinning.

I think if I had one of Its Guinea worms crawling out through my skin I might be using a wide range of profane language, doubling the gravity of my situation in Its Eyes.

Stuart
 

alwight

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My favourite apologetic is the: "mysterious ways..." argument, which shows up in many guises, "who are you to question God?" and so on.

I'm surprised it hasn't been mentioned yet
Whatever God does is morally right apparently, even if we can't understand it or that we would normally think it morally wrong.
Our existence is to simply obey and praise God, which we can do eternally if we pass the test. Whoopie :(
 
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