Thank you I was distracted when I posted the sin nature comes through Adam and Jesus had an earthly mother NOT an earthly Father, and there was a reason for that.
I know you revere the very WORD of God and HIS Scripture, thus I was certain this was the case.
There was a reason Jesus had no earthly father.
God Fathered God. This is the very "reason". The Sin that is "passed" down idea is Augustine and not scriptural. God made us equal to Him as His "children" of "His Body", but the Patriarchal tradition in scripture is specifically to show us our "Not Like God" place and equality existing only through Love likened to intimacy that is beyond the consummation of a marriage.
I cannot emphasize how Calvinist and Augustine the idea is that we are imputed with "Adam's" sin or "sin nature". We make mistakes... God doesn't. That's the actual truth of the matter. We are not and never will be "like God".
Even though man is born with a sin nature there is still no real excuse ! Scripture says every man is drawn away through his "own" lust and when lust conceives it produces sin and sin produces death.....Where id man's lust come from I would argue it comes from his sinful nature.
In other words... the extra biblical concept of imputed sin and "sin nature, can go out the window and all is well in Jesus land. You see it... I can tell you see it.
Jesus was truly man without a sin nature just as Adam was showing that Adam chose to disobey God He did NOT have to sin.
If He was tempted in every manner we were tempted in scripture... this is misleading. What if I say...
Our 5 Star General gave each of us a shot to recognize that He deserved His supreme Authority, or challenge it and from the first Angel to the Last Human... none have "measured up". Would that be "fair" to say? Same rules... same playing field... Only ONE could Draw "Excalibur".
That is making an excuse to sin. Adam disobeyed God period.
So admitting that I have free will and screw up is making an "excuse for sin", while saying God "imputed" a Sin nature through Adam or I "inherited" a "sin nature" from Adam and can't help but sin isn't?
Did you ever tell your Drill instructor that you couldn't make your bunk properly because your Great-Great Grand Father couldn't make his bunk properly, thus you have a propensity to screw up your bunk?
How would that have gone?
Yes, I have read and prayed over the analogy of the bronze serpent many times.
Bottom line of the analogy is look to Jesus for forgiveness as they looked to the bronze serpent to be healed we look to Jesus and only Jesus to be saved from the sting and poison of sin.
Aha! AMEN.... :thumb: Fully Agree! Only One "Bright" ... and TRUE... "NORTH". We can either pull our compass and map out and measure the Klicks out for ourselves, or we can accept that "He" alone made it through this "Jungle" for us.
I dealt with all of that at the foot of the cross in 1978.
Amen and Praise Jesus! Hoo Yah! Well... ya know I shouldn't be saying Hoo Rah... but... didn't we both have the same insignia's on our pay-stubs?
Why was Jesus born without an earthly Father ? Surely there was a reason !
Only God can Father God. We addressed this earlier.
That death thingy came from Adam how do you explain that death is a result of sin. Even though babies die never having sinned ?
Aha... Now you speak of "Physical" death. Is this not the result of us being "Like God", thanks to the old Dragon's excellent (severe sarcasm) suggestion. He's that one guy in the ranks that screws it up for everyone! The old Dragon is essentially Full Metal Jacket's Pyle, eating a jelly donut while we all suffer!
offered the forbidden fruit to Adam and he ate HE DID NOT HAVE TO. You are placing the blame on Satan when it was Adam who DISOBEYED God.
I believe that Adam didn't want to live without Eve and took on her "Sin" in a literal fashion, while a very SUPER DUPER SQUARED AWAY SOLDIER ... Aced the coarse and then imputed HIS SUCCESS in place of "EVERYONE" else's Failures and sniped the Alpha TARGET in the progress (Heb. 2:14). Do I get points for literary creativity yet and does not the Groom "Lay" his life down for the "Bride"... per scripture, while the instigator of the conflict is FOOBARed and DOA?
Satan tempted Eve she chose to disobey God she did NOT have to. Eve gave the forbidden fruit to Adam and he chose to sin. Satan tempted Eve and Adam disobeyed.
Eve was "seduced" into feeling "lacking". Again... Did Adam think "Eve" was "lacking"? I'm fairly certain the whole cloths thing upset him in the long run. Just saying... Does not scripture say this.... (1 Peter 3:7)? Does it not also say this... (Eph. 5:25)? Do you really want to take the (1 John 4:8) and the (1 Cor. 13) out of the matter?
Can you think of a more God defining Statement than God is Love that makes the (John 5:39) of the matter even more clear in the Creation account? Christology... Christology... Christology!
We sin because that is our nature to sin but we are responsible because of our nature that is what we chose to do.
That's odd... because as long as I have known better, I do it because I willingly screw up and then reap the consequences which usually suck! As in... sin... in and of itself is an empty pursuit, but we aren't GOD and Sin is actually "Missing the Mark", so in reality... we were born different from God and always will be, because God never desired to "Marry" a "Clone" of "Himself". Does that make sense?
We agree Jesus is the only propitiation there is no other.
Well Amen to that! This is imperative and binds us as brethren in Him with the afforded enjoyment of discussing differing theological perspectives.
Like the experience of Adam disobeying God and with that experience would have been trapped in living in sin had God not covered him with animal skins.
I could push this point to say that God covered up the most beautiful things He had ever formed and was disgusted that Satan caused Adam and Eve to be ASHAMED of HIS Workmanship...
But... I mainly want to point out that you are looking at the "Flesh" of Adam and Eve and not their "Hearts". We can do this as we have All Scripture and on top of it... (1 Cor. 2:16, 1 John 4:8 and 1 Cor. 13)... but that's just me. Is the disobedience the "important" part? Or is the message of Love the important part?
Little children, I shall be with you a little while longer. You will seek Me; and as I said to the Jews, ‘Where I am going, you cannot come,’ so now I say to you. 34 A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also love one another. 35 By this all will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.”
Again why do you suppose Jesus had no earthly Father there was a reason otherwise God what purpose did that serve ?
Again... Only God can Beget God. As for the "Flesh" of the matter... God is no cheater. I genuinely believe that He walked as a 100 percent Man, just like scripture says, because He alone can "Walk" Righteously and Good without screwing up. If any other being was "Perfect like God"... they would "Be God". And alas... since that whole "Be like God" ego trip of the Dragon didn't work out so well, I'm fairly certain the fate of anyone else who tries it will end up similar.
He alone is Holy and righteous.
Amen Dodge! Amen!
