chrysostom

chrysostom

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protecting the child
A Crisis in the Church
that you can't ignore. Are the bishops protecting the child? No. They are protecting abortion, same sex marriage, unions, immigrants, LGBT, environment, etc. The same things the Democratic Party is protecting. Just look at the political action groups supported by the CCHD. Support these groups and you are supporting the Democratic Party that supports abortion. Your Catholic money supporting abortion.
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why Catholics are liberal
A Crisis in the Church
that you can't ignore. John Dearden. He started the USCCB and to run it he picked Joseph Bernardin who started the CCHD often called the "Catholic Campaign to Help Democrats". The liberals in the Democratic Party couldn't have been happier with them. That included Obama and ACORN. The message was clear. It was okay to vote for Democrats even thought they supported abortion. It was not the only issue and we were called to help the poor. Enter the "Seamless Garment". Bernardin's brainchild.

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ok doser

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What about the children already born, separated from their parents by the federal government?

what are you, personally, doing to persuade those parents to stay in their countries, to not put their children's lives at risk on a dangerous journey, even though the least dangerous part of it might be capture by ICE and temporary detention?
 

Nihilo

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why Catholics are liberal
A Crisis in the Church
that you can't ignore. John Dearden. He started the USCCB and to run it he picked Joseph Bernardin who started the CCHD often called the "Catholic Campaign to Help Democrats". The liberals in the Democratic Party couldn't have been happier with them. That included Obama and ACORN. The message was clear. It was okay to vote for Democrats even thought they supported abortion. It was not the only issue and we were called to help the poor. Enter the "Seamless Garment". Bernardin's brainchild.

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The best way to fight back against liberals is to focus in on like a laser defending and protecting inalienable rights. The inalienable rights of us who survived pregnancy are just as important as those of the fetus. We are all equal and fighting for our inalienable rights in any way is equal to every other defense of any other inalienable right of any other subpopulation. It is all equal work, it all points in the same direction, which is to reasonable, rational, and lawful freedom and liberty, which is, as we learned from the second reading in Sunday's Mass, Why Christ set us free (Gal5:1KJV)---it was to Be free.

Galatians 5:13-14 KJV Galatians 5:22-23 KJV " . . . against such there is no law." Cf. Galatians 5:18 KJV, especially in the light of Galatians 5:16 KJV (i.e., iow, "you shall not [break any laws]).

It could be, sorry to say, that mothers possess an inalienable right to terminate their pregnancies, for whatever reason they believe justifies termination, without any valid requirement by law to answer to anybody. The Church's teaching is that the fetus is already a person, and that therefore the fetus possesses the same inalienable right to not be killed (the right to life) as do born people, but if mothers possess an inalienable right to terminate their pregnancy then it must be because sometimes, the pregnancy poses a serious enough threat to her that she feels it best to employ lethal force in her own self defense, of her own life and limb.

Such a killing would be justified, in the same way that defending our own lives with lethal force can be justified, when faced with a credible threat to life and limb.

If the above is anywhere near the truth, then the only valid option we have to protect the fetus is through making laws that discourage "indiscriminate" abortion---abortion done with abandon and without regard for the inalienable rights of others. By parallel, if a person shoots someone to death, and claims self defense, and we just take their word for it without investigating to see if the claim of self defense is reasonable and rational, that itself is unreasonable and irrational, because in a great number of cases, when things appear a certain way, they are that way that they appear, and if it appears to be wanton and reckless use of lethal force (i.e. a felony), then that's probably what it is. We should make laws that can discriminate between justified self defense and intentional homicide, just like those laws we already have, do, but wrt abortion.

Beyond that is imo blurring the lines between Church and state, and forcing Satanists /Idolaters who do not believe the same Christian belief that the fetus is already a person, to live under Christian laws. It would be like us having to live under Sharia laws. It's Unconstitutional. And the Church herself teaches how important the inalienable right to religious liberty is, to recognize, affirm, protect, defend, etc. it. Whether or not the fetus is a person is, like it or not, a religious /theological opinion.
 

Nihilo

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what are you, personally, doing to persuade those parents to stay in their countries, to not put their children's lives at risk on a dangerous journey
It's of utmost importance to be digging into Why they are coming here. They're all claiming asylum. They're all traveling hundreds of miles to get here and to claim asylum.

And some of those Latin American countries, to say nothing of Mexico, are "murder capitals" of the world.
, even though the least dangerous part of it might be capture by ICE and temporary detention?
That's a fact.
 

ok doser

Well-known member
Temp Banned
And some of those Latin American countries, to say nothing of Mexico, are "murder capitals" of the world.
That's a fact.

i don't have the time today to research it, but maybe later - I wonder how Kansas City, Detroit, Baltimore, etc compare to central american countries, including Mexico, comparing murder rates, total murders, gross populations, etc
 

JudgeRightly

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Why would the right

"Rights," plural.

A human fetus is a person, and has the same rights that a toddler, a teenager, an adult, and an elderly person has, especially the right to life.

Who are you to deny that person life?

of the fetus

Does a pig or kitten fetus have less, the same, or more rights than a human fetus?

be more Important than anybody else's rights?

Nihilo, would you kill one baby in the womb if it meant that there would never be another abortion for the rest of eternity?

That's not equality.

In a free world, there is no such thing as "equality," because no two people are the same.

Under the law, all are regarded as equal in regards to justice. In other words, social status has no bearing on whether it's OK to commit a crime. Yet people are free to succeed or fail in life on their own actions.

You seem to be confusing the two concepts "in a free world" and "under the law"
 

Nihilo

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"Rights," plural.

A human fetus is a person, and has the same rights that a toddler, a teenager, an adult, and an elderly person has, especially the right to life.

Who are you to deny that person life?



Does a pig or kitten fetus have less, the same, or more rights than a human fetus?



Nihilo, would you kill one baby in the womb if it meant that there would never be another abortion for the rest of eternity?



In a free world, there is no such thing as "equality," because no two people are the same.

Under the law, all are regarded as equal in regards to justice. In other words, social status has no bearing on whether it's OK to commit a crime. Yet people are free to succeed or fail in life on their own actions.

You seem to be confusing the two concepts "in a free world" and "under the law"
'Not real comfortable interacting with mods here. Nothing personal.
 

annabenedetti

Well-known member
i'm curious about why she just can't admit she wants open borders

Why would I admit to something you made up?

There are ways to begin fixing the border debacle:

For starters:

Don't deny border crossers their due rights under the Constitution.
Don't separate children from their parents.
Don't arrest asylum seekers.
Don't close the bridges and border crossings to asylum seekers in order to force them into crossing elsewhere to justify the resulting zero-tolerance arrest.
Reactivate a viable, long-term guest worker program.
Extend another amnesty.
Stop overreach of Border Patrol authority.
Disband ICE.
 

annabenedetti

Well-known member
what are you, personally, doing to persuade those parents to stay in their countries, to not put their children's lives at risk on a dangerous journey, even though the least dangerous part of it might be capture by ICE and temporary detention?

Why would I persuade them to stay where they're not safe, where their children aren't safe? If I were them, I'd try to get here too.
 
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