CAN YOU HAVE GOD'S GRACE WITHOUT GOD'S LAW?

[God's Truth]

Your analogies are not from the Bible.
There is no wrong reason to obey God.

 

[clefty]

Your analogies are not from the Bible.
There is no wrong reason to obey God.

More of the bible than your idolatrous abomination of "His Law was abolished...every day is Holy now"...

And yet AGAIN you get it horribly wrong here.

Of course there are wrong reasons to obey Yah.

Only a Pharisee would argue there is no wrong reason to obey Yah...just improper worship...be outward clean but inward defiled and perverse...hmmm sound familiar?

Only a Inquisitor would argue the same...there is just improper worship...obedience from fear of death, or torture, or hell forever is good enough...

How many Christians with their prosperity gospel obey merely to get rich or stay healthy or amass adulation from peers as the Pharisees and Inquisitors of old...



Can't believe how corrupt and corrupting you are...such possession...Satan's offer of "You will become wise...become god" is acceptable motivation to you is it?...how many obey for that reason alone?...supplanting Him...and then replacing Him...and changing Him His ways..."I obey...and I say this is what you should obey"...sound familiar?

And of course you miss the possible seductions of obedience...it's an inward defilement...

Obedience out of a sense of Duty...how many forget it is to be joyful and not a burdensome? but obligate themselves in false humility and false penance...or are horrified to disobey a tyrant god eager to punish kill torture or send to hell fire...FOREVER...

Obedience out of competitive Performance..."look at me!!!"...Yahushua constantly addressed this with the Pharisees...called them clean outwardly but inside defiled...not all BTW but certainly called those SNAKES their Father the Devil who like you ADDED/SUBTRACTED what was thought to be obeyed or not…or claimed no wrong reason to obey...the inner evil ALWAYS forming new ways to obey...

Obedience out of desire for Merit...keeping the rules to earn favor or grace or salvation...how often are those who are saved and wish to be more Like Him accused of that very thing?


"No wrong reason to obey God"...wow...you miss SO MUCH...

There are ALWAYS bad reasons to obey/enter into any covenant...marriage included...or even the rules to post here on TOL...

 

[Nanja]

Grace fulfilled the Law. Christ by the Grace of God has met all the requirements needed to satisfy Gods Law and Justice for His People. Rom 8:3-4

³ For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: ⁴ that the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

So True Brother ! Christ, as Surety Head of all the Election of Grace / God's Elect, came into the World on their behalf and Perfectly Obeyed every command of God's Holy Law; in all their deeds, thoughts and speech, just as if they did it themselves; and so fulfilling all the Righteousness of the Law . Also, as their Surety Head He is the Author of their believing, for His Obedience to the Law for them was also by Faith Heb. 11:6.

Paul also testifies to the same here:

Rom. 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one [Christ] shall many be made righteous.


Is. 42:21 The LORD is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable.

 

[God's Truth]

Only a Pharisee would argue there is no wrong reason to obey Yah...just improper worship...be outward clean but inward defiled and perverse...hmmm sound familiar?

Jesus says the Pharisees did not obey. You can't make up your mind how you want to use the Pharisees.

Only a Inquisitor would argue the same...there is just improper worship...obedience from fear of death, or torture, or hell forever is good enough...

The scriptures say the apostles know what it is to fear the Lord, and to save others from the fire.

Jude 1:23 And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.

And of course you miss the possible seductions of obedience...it's an inward defilement...

Creepy what you say, and woe to you says God.

Isaiah 5:20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

Obedience out of a sense of Duty...how many forget it is to be joyful and not a burdensome? but obligate themselves in false humility and false penance...or are horrified to disobey a tyrant god eager to punish kill torture or send to hell fire...FOREVER...

It is so sinful what you say about God calling Him a tyrant.

2 Corinthians 5:11 [ The Ministry of Reconciliation ] Since, then, we know what it is to fear the Lord, we try to persuade men. What we are is plain to God, and I hope it is also plain to your conscience.


Luke 12:5 But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear him who, after the killing of the body, has power to throw you into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear him.


1 Peter 1:17 Since you call on a Father who judges each man’s work impartially, live your lives as strangers here in reverent fear.


Hebrews 10:26 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, ²⁷ but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. ²⁸ Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses.

Obedience out of competitive Performance..."look at me!!!"...Yahushua constantly addressed this with the Pharisees...called them clean outwardly but inside defiled...not all BTW but certainly called those SNAKES their Father the Devil who like you ADDED/SUBTRACTED what was thought to be obeyed or not…or claimed no wrong reason to obey...the inner evil ALWAYS forming new ways to obey...

You speak so much evil. What happened to those of Nineveh?

 

[beloved57]

So True Brother ! Christ, as Surety Head of all the Election of Grace / God's Elect, came into the World on their behalf and Perfectly Obeyed every command of God's Holy Law; in all their deeds, thoughts and speech, just as if they did it themselves; and so fulfilling all the Righteousness of the Law . Also, as their Surety Head He is the Author of their believing, for His Obedience to the Law for them was also by Faith Heb. 11:6.

Paul also testifies to the same here:

Rom. 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one [Christ] shall many be made righteous.


Is. 42:21 The LORD is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable.

Food for my Soul Sister!

 

[Nanja]

Food for my Soul Sister!

Amen, for me too Brother !

 

[clefty]

Jesus says the Pharisees did not obey. You can't make up your mind how you want to use the Pharisees.

sure I can...He even says the Pharisees had a righteousness to be exceeded...Pharisees saved Him from Herod...Pharisees invited Him to eat...Joseph of Armithea and Nicodemus were His friends...

Gamaliel spared the Apostles...LOL imagine if the disciples were teaching your idolatrous nonsense...”OK soon Sabbath is done away with and every day will be holy and we can eat cats and bats and rats and wombats” you think zealous Jews would agreee with Gamaliel to leave them alone with this BLASPHEMING message? LOL...

oh and Acts 23:9 has Pharisees claim Paul was right...NOT about Sabbath to be done away with and eating dog and swine...; as Paul did NOT teach that...but of the resurrection...Pharisees agreed with him and fought against the sadduccees...who unlike you did not take too kindly to making stuff up and adding it to the word...just cuz it was pleasing and providing every day rest...LOL

Oh yeah Paul...Paul was a Pharisee...killed believers for teaching they had killed Yahushua the resurrected Messiah and for gentiles...NOT for “ok so Sabbath is going away soon and every day is Holy oh and we can eat pig” That was NOT the gospel...

The scriptures say the apostles know what it is to fear the Lord, and to save others from the fire.

Jude 1:23 And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.

it was about Love and repentance and overcoming sin...NOT forever HELL FIRE TORMENT...no Jews believed that...why would these believing jews? Pagan gods were fearsome enough this God of Love come to die was the real draw...oh and that day of rest...that was indeed quite desirable for 24/7 slaves...

Creepy what you say, and woe to you says God.

Isaiah 5:20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

what the zealous Pharisees had done was because of their desire to obey and get others to do so they ADDED rules...that was what was ‘loosened”...their zealous desire to obey had them create extra regulations...just as you created “every day is holy” idol...because you desire to obey but ADD to the word...

It is so sinful what you say about God calling Him a tyrant.

2 Corinthians 5:11 [ The Ministry of Reconciliation ] Since, then, we know what it is to fear the Lord, we try to persuade men. What we are is plain to God, and I hope it is also plain to your conscience.


Luke 12:5 But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear him who, after the killing of the body, has power to throw you into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear him.


1 Peter 1:17 Since you call on a Father who judges each man’s work impartially, live your lives as strangers here in reverent fear.


Hebrews 10:26 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, ²⁷ but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. ²⁸ Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses.

throughout history this is exactly what type of god was portrayed a tyrant god eager to punish and condemn to torment forever in made up hell...

Like you christendom has added to the word in order to make people FEAR and submit to obedience...

You speak so much evil. What happened to those of Nineveh?

they repented and were saved...but did they later make idols like you to obey things not in scripture?

 

[God's Truth]

Oh yeah Paul...Paul was a Pharisee...killed believers for teaching they had killed Yahushua the resurrected Messiah and for gentiles..

What?

Like you christendom has added to the word in order to make people FEAR and submit to obedience...

I gave you scriptures from the Holy Bible.

 

[clefty]

What?

have you ever read poor Stephen’s sermon?

I gave you scriptures from the Holy Bible.

and? Christendom like you added to them...

 

[God's Truth]

have you ever read poor Stephen’s sermon?

and? Christendom like you added to them...

You are usually long winded, and though torturous to read, I can usually find something I can decipher from your gibberish.

 

[clefty]

You are usually long winded, and though torturous to read, I can usually find something I can decipher from you gibberish.

Do the research yourself on why Paul killed christians...it was NOT because they taught YOUR HERESY “that every day is holy as soon the Sabbath will be destroyed and we can eat pigs and dogs”...

 

[God's Truth]

Do the research yourself on why Paul killed christians...it was NOT because they taught YOUR HERESY “that every day is holy as soon the Sabbath will be destroyed and we can eat pigs and dogs”...

Paul tried to destroy the church those who called on the name of Jesus.

 

[clefty]

Paul tried to destroy the church those who called on the name of Jesus.

right...good...AND NOT what you do now..."Jesus abolished the Sabbath...EVERY DAY is HOLY NOW...oh and we can eat swine...cats bats and wombats too"...

 

[God's Truth]

right...good...AND NOT what you do now..."Jesus abolished the Sabbath...EVERY DAY is HOLY NOW...oh and we can eat swine...cats bats and wombats too"...

When you claim you are quoting me, you better be quoting me and not lying.

Give the exact place where I said Jesus abolished the Sabbath and that we can eat cats and bats.

 

[clefty]

When you claim you are quoting me, you better be quoting me and not lying.

Give the exact place where I said Jesus abolished the Sabbath and that we can eat cats and bats.

for pages now it has been "every day is Holy" and "nothing makes us unclean"...

do you even realize what you are posting?

hmmm maybe not...

 

[JudgeRightly]

Paul tried to destroy the church those who called on the name of Jesus.

Not just "tried to..."

He actually did.

The words "tried to" are not in the original manuscripts. The verse in particular reads that Paul "destroyed the church," not Paul "tried to destroy the church."

"Tried to" was added later.

 

[God's Truth]

Paul couldn't destroy the church. no matter how much he tried.

No such thing in the Bible saying Paul destroyed the church.

 

[clefty]

Paul couldn't destroy the church. no matter how much he tried.

No such thing in the Bible saying Paul destroyed the church.

and now here you are wounding the Head again having His body do NOT as He taught or did with your idolatrous "every day is Holy now...nothing can make us unclean"

 

[God's Truth]

and now here you are wounding the Head again having His body do NOT as He taught or did with your idolatrous "every day is Holy now...nothing can make us unclean"

You speak to much gibberish.

Jesus is the Sabbath Rest. Paul had men and women who believed that dragged out of their home and put in prison.

 

[clefty]

You speak to much gibberish.

least I am not making idols or Him a LIAR

Jesus is the Sabbath Rest.

NOT found in Scripture another idol you built...He is not a 24 hour seventh day of the week...a Holy day of rest

Paul had men and women who believed that dragged out of their home and put in prison.

NOBODY Paul imprisoned or killed believed Jesus was a 24 hour seventh day of the week...a Holy day of rest. Nor did they believe "ALL days are Holy now...and we can eat cats bats and wombats"