CAN YOU HAVE GOD'S GRACE WITHOUT GOD'S LAW?

JudgeRightly

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God's Truth;n[URL="tel:2756251" said:
2756251[/URL]]Paul couldn't destroy the church. no matter how much he tried.

Denying scripture? Shame on you!

No such thing in the Bible saying Paul destroyed the church.

Shame on you for not knowing what scripture says.

As for Saul, he made havoc of the church, entering every house, and dragging off men and women, committing them to prison. - Acts 8:3 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts8:3&version=NKJV



For you have heard of my former conduct in Judaism, how I persecuted the church of God beyond measure and tried to destroy it. - Galatians 1:13 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Galatians1:13&version=NKJV
(NOTE: In the King James Version (and subsequently the NKJV), italicized words are not used as emphasis, but only to show words that were not in the original text. See HERE.)

for ye did hear of my behaviour once in Judaism, that exceedingly I was persecuting the assembly of God, and wasting it, - Galatians 1:13 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Galatians1:13&version=YLT

For ye have heard [what was] my conversation formerly in Judaism, that I excessively persecuted the assembly of God, and ravaged it; - Galatians 1:13 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Galatians1:13&version=DARBY

 

God's Truth

New member
for pages now it has been "every day is Holy" and "nothing makes us unclean"...

do you even realize what you are posting?

hmmm maybe not...

Show where I said Jesus abolished the Sabbath and that we can eat cats and bats.

Show it now or stop saying you are quoting me.
 

God's Truth

New member
least I am not making idols or Him a LIAR

NOT found in Scripture another idol you built...He is not a 24 hour seventh day of the week...a Holy day of rest

NOBODY Paul imprisoned or killed believed Jesus was a 24 hour seventh day of the week...a Holy day of rest. Nor did they believe "ALL days are Holy now...and we can eat cats bats and wombats"

Jesus is the rest and you deny all the scriptures given.
 

clefty

New member
Show where I said Jesus abolished the Sabbath and that we can eat cats and bats.

Show it now or stop saying you are quoting me.

Uh oh...you upset about being misquoted or having your posts embellished?

imagine how He feels with what you do with what He said AND demonstrated...
 

clefty

New member
Jesus is the rest and you deny all the scriptures given.

He will give us rest...

And nothing about your “every day is Holy now” or “He is our Sabbath rest” or “He is the rest”

so stop lying about what is in scripture and what He says and I will stop teasing you about what you say your “nothing makes us unclean eat whatever you want!!!”
 

God's Truth

New member
Uh oh...you upset about being misquoted or having your posts embellished?

imagine how He feels with what you do with what He said AND demonstrated...

The phrase "speaks with a forked tongue" means to deliberately say one thing and mean another or, to be hypocritical, or act in a duplicitous manner.
 

clefty

New member
Jesus gives rest.

Yup from the beginning...at creation a seventh day Holy Day Sabbath...

no other god did that just One Creator God did

and said it was for man...not just jews

is why Heb 4:9

He gives us rest still...as it is a shadow of good things to come...still

do you pray you will not have to flee on the Sabbath in future times of trouble? “Run to the hills!” would not be restful...nor do I imply you said that...
 

God's Truth

New member
Yup from the beginning...at creation a seventh day Holy Day Sabbath...
There was no work yet because Adam and Eve had not yet sinned.

and said it was for man...not just jews

Jesus is for man.

is why Heb 4:9

Hebrews 4
A Sabbath-Rest for the People of God

1Therefore, since the promise of entering his rest still stands, let us be careful that none of you be found to have fallen short of it. 2For we also have had the good news proclaimed to us, just as they did; but the message they heard was of no value to them, because they did not share the faith of those who obeyed. 3Now we who have believed enter that rest, just as God has said,

“So I declared on oath in my anger,

‘They shall never enter my rest.’ ”

And yet his works have been finished since the creation of the world. 4For somewhere he has spoken about the seventh day in these words: “On the seventh day God rested from all his works.” 5And again in the passage above he says, “They shall never enter my rest.”

6Therefore since it still remains for some to enter that rest, and since those who formerly had the good news proclaimed to them did not go in because of their disobedience, 7God again set a certain day, calling it “Today.” This he did when a long time later he spoke through David, as in the passage already quoted:

“Today, if you hear his voice,

do not harden your hearts.”


8For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken later about another day. 9There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God; 10for anyone who enters God’s rest also rests from their works, just as God did from his. 11Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will perish by following their example of disobedience.



Those scripture prove that JESUS IS THE SABBATH REST.



He gives us rest still...as it is a shadow of good things to come...still

The shadow was of Jesus. Jesus came and there is no more shadows.


do you pray you will not have to flee on the Sabbath in future times of trouble? “Run to the hills!” would not be restful...nor do I imply you said that...

There were Jews who did not enter God's rest, Jesus Christ. That means they still locked the gates on the Sabbath, and no one can get out and save themselves from what was coming.
 

clefty

New member
There was no work yet because Adam and Eve had not yet sinned.

Right...you miss SO MUCH...of course there was work...Adam was to be fruitfull and multiply...fill the earth...and subdue it...have dominion over the fish and birds and animals...he was to name the animals...tend and keep the garden...is why he even got a help mate...help what? lay about and rest every day like you do? stuck in your every day is Holy heresy? NO of course not...

And just like with the New Covenant that first FULL day for man was a Sabbath...when Yah rested blessed sanctified and made Holy the seventh day...

And yes...Sabbath BEFORE SIN...and yes before ADAM even worked there was a Sabbath...do you really think Yah needed rest and refreshment?

Do you really think Yah needed six days to create it all? Or maybe He was setting up a pattern for us? A cadence for us to live by? 3 days of NO SUN and when on the fourth day the Sun went DOWN IN THE MIDDLE OF THE WEEK...a foreshadowing of what?

Or maybe it Sabbath is the Grace that He gave us His REST even BEFORE WE NEEDED IT?



What if we never sinned...what would that look like to you? EVERY DAY IS SANCTIFIED AND HOLY?

Of course NOT...we would be doing the same six day work and rest with Yah as He made for us...HalleluYah


Jesus is for man.
duh...that WHOSOEVER believes...but some like with the Sabbath reject Him completely...never look back...

some also like with the Sabbath make changes to Him and His teaching before they can accept Him...

some also like with the Sabbath even claim He did it all I don’t need to do ANY of it is fulfilled...

and finally there are some late comers in history who like with the Sabbath claim He was just for Jews and NOT for them or something...I mean they are really MAD...

even Satan believes He is the Son of Yah and saves...but obey Him His ways? “AWWW HELL NO...NOT FOR ME!!” I guess the wicked never rest...or is it like you they always rest and never work?


Hebrews 4
A Sabbath-Rest for the People of God
oh good you DO read Hebrews...chapter 11 yet?

Chapter 4 continues this letter to the Hebrews which is a RETELLING of their history...chapter 3 was about Moses and One superior now...and of Israels rebellion hardening of their hearts...NOT ENTERING THE PROMISED LAND...you know because of unbelief...you know LACK OF FAITH which of course leads to well idolatry...and stuff...

So Paul repeats this lesson here in chapter 4

1Therefore, since the promise of entering his rest still stands, let us be careful that none of you be found to have fallen short of it. 2
Indeed the SPIRITUAL PROMISED LAND REMAINS...you know...what Paul wrote about...the GOOD THINGS STILL TO COME...which the shadows ARE pointing to still...

For we also have had the good news proclaimed to us, just as they did; but the message they heard was of no value to them, because they did not share the faith
SHARE THE WHAT?
of those who obeyed. 3Now we who have believed enter that rest, just as God has said,

“So I declared on oath in my anger,

‘They shall never enter my rest.’ ”
yup. Psalms 95:11 in Hebrew a resting place...not a person...or nap

but all about FAILING to enter Canaan because of LACK OF FAITH or UNBELIEF or HARDENING OF HEARTS...you know making up NEW WAYS to worship cuz HIS WAYS weren’t doing it for you...a rebellion of idolatry like your “EVERY DAY IS HOLY not just the 7th”

Like YOU Israel did NOT know His Ways...made their own up...followed another

And yet his works have been finished since the creation of the world. 4For somewhere he has spoken about the seventh day in these words: “On the seventh day God rested from all his works.” 5And again in the passage above he says, “They shall never enter my rest.”
so there ya go...choose YE this day whom Ye will serve...TODAY

SEE?:

6Therefore since it still remains for some to enter that rest, and since those who formerly had the good news proclaimed to them did not go in because of their disobedience, 7God again set a certain day, calling it “Today.” This he did when a long time later he spoke through David, as in the passage already quoted:

“Today, if you hear his voice,

do not harden your hearts.”
that was Psalms 95:7 about Joshua demanding allegiance

8For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken later about another day. 9There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God; 10for anyone who enters God’s rest also rests from their works, just as God did from his. 11Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will perish by following their example of disobedience.
so a SABBATISMOS remains for His people which is BETTER TRANSLATED a SABBATH KEEPING remains...

so that ANYONE not just Jews enters Yah’s rest they also rest from their works...JUST AS YAH DID>>>ONE DAY the SEVENTH DAY...so rest like Yah rested so should you enter Yah’s rest...that last day of the week rest...so be faithful to enter that PROMISED PERPETUAL rest so no one perishes for disobedience...like Israel did...

They didnt enter for a reason...disobedience...stemming from a LACK OF FAITH

NOTHING THERE ABOUT ENTERING JESUS THE NEW SEVENTH DAY REST


Those scripture prove that JESUS IS THE SABBATH REST.
prove you are a LIAR and out to make Him and His son liars too...counterfeiting scritpure and making idols of it...





The shadow was of Jesus.
IS of good things to come...Jesus is not things...good but NOT stuff...

Jesus came and there is no more shadows.
your idol only blinds you...there is good still to come...but you have to lift that veil while reading the OT...He can help you...


There were Jews who did not enter God's rest, Jesus Christ. That means they still locked the gates on the Sabbath, and no one can get out and save themselves from what was coming.
yes your gift and ability to make fanciful clever images and idols has long been noted...the way you twist scripture alas is NOT rare...

as if jews only lived in locked cities...

you lock your uncircumcised heart...release the inner jew...LOL
 

God's Truth

New member
Right...you miss SO MUCH...of course there was work...Adam was to be fruitfull and multiply...fill the earth...and subdue it...have dominion over the fish and birds and animals...he was to name the animals...tend and keep the garden...is why he even got a help mate...help what? lay about and rest every day like you do? stuck in your every day is Holy heresy? NO of course not...

And just like with the New Covenant that first FULL day for man was a Sabbath...when Yah rested blessed sanctified and made Holy the seventh day...

And yes...Sabbath BEFORE SIN...and yes before ADAM even worked there was a Sabbath...do you really think Yah needed rest and refreshment?

Do you really think Yah needed six days to create it all? Or maybe He was setting up a pattern for us? A cadence for us to live by? 3 days of NO SUN and when on the fourth day the Sun went DOWN IN THE MIDDLE OF THE WEEK...a foreshadowing of what?

Or maybe it Sabbath is the Grace that He gave us His REST even BEFORE WE NEEDED IT?



What if we never sinned...what would that look like to you? EVERY DAY IS SANCTIFIED AND HOLY?

Of course NOT...we would be doing the same six day work and rest with Yah as He made for us...HalleluYah


duh...that WHOSOEVER believes...but some like with the Sabbath reject Him completely...never look back...

some also like with the Sabbath make changes to Him and His teaching before they can accept Him...

some also like with the Sabbath even claim He did it all I don’t need to do ANY of it is fulfilled...

and finally there are some late comers in history who like with the Sabbath claim He was just for Jews and NOT for them or something...I mean they are really MAD...

even Satan believes He is the Son of Yah and saves...but obey Him His ways? “AWWW HELL NO...NOT FOR ME!!” I guess the wicked never rest...or is it like you they always rest and never work?

The Sabbath was a shadow of Jesus.
oh good you DO read Hebrews...chapter 11 yet?

Chapter 4 continues this letter to the Hebrews which is a RETELLING of their history...chapter 3 was about Moses and One superior now...and of Israels rebellion hardening of their hearts...NOT ENTERING THE PROMISED LAND...you know because of unbelief...you know LACK OF FAITH which of course leads to well idolatry...and stuff...

So Paul repeats this lesson here in chapter 4

Indeed the SPIRITUAL PROMISED LAND REMAINS...you know...what Paul wrote about...the GOOD THINGS STILL TO COME...which the shadows ARE pointing to still...

SHARE THE WHAT? yup. Psalms 95:11 in Hebrew a resting place...not a person...or nap

I gave you scriptures from Hebrews that SAY IT IS A PERSON.

but all about FAILING to enter Canaan because of LACK OF FAITH or UNBELIEF or HARDENING OF HEARTS...you know making up NEW WAYS to worship cuz HIS WAYS weren’t doing it for you...a rebellion of idolatry like your “EVERY DAY IS HOLY not just the 7th”

Like YOU Israel did NOT know His Ways...made their own up...followed another

so there ya go...choose YE this day whom Ye will serve...TODAY

SEE?:

that was Psalms 95:7 about Joshua demanding allegiance

so a SABBATISMOS remains for His people which is BETTER TRANSLATED a SABBATH KEEPING remains...

so that ANYONE not just Jews enters Yah’s rest they also rest from their works...JUST AS YAH DID>>>ONE DAY the SEVENTH DAY...so rest like Yah rested so should you enter Yah’s rest...that last day of the week rest...so be faithful to enter that PROMISED PERPETUAL rest so no one perishes for disobedience...like Israel did...

They didnt enter for a reason...disobedience...stemming from a LACK OF FAITH

NOTHING THERE ABOUT ENTERING JESUS THE NEW SEVENTH DAY REST


prove you are a LIAR and out to make Him and His son liars too...counterfeiting scritpure and making idols of it...

How do you obey the Sabbath?

You know that you turn you heater on in the cold Sabbath nights.

You know you talk to people on the Sabbath and it has nothing to do with God.


IS of good things to come...Jesus is not things...good but NOT stuff...

your idol only blinds you...there is good still to come...but you have to lift that veil while reading the OT...He can help you...

Jesus is the good that came.

You demean God.


yes your gift and ability to make fanciful clever images and idols has long been noted...the way you twist scripture alas is NOT rare...

as if jews only lived in locked cities...

you lock your uncircumcised heart...release the inner jew...LOL

Revelation 3:9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.
 

clefty

New member
The Sabbath was a shadow of Jesus.
nope...is a shadow of good things to come Col 2:17...has a shadow of good things to come Heb 10:1...and is a shadow of heavenly things Heb 8:5...but is NOT a shadow of a Person...


{quote]I gave you scriptures from Hebrews that SAY IT IS A PERSON.[/quote] you thought...



How do you obey the Sabbath?
no one obeys the Sabbath...they try and keep it...

You know that you turn you heater on in the cold Sabbath nights.

You know you talk to people on the Sabbath and it has nothing to do with God.
and? Those that play the game can only judge the game played.



Jesus is the good that came.

You demean God.
there is still more good to come...don’t let your idol blind you...your “Sabbath is not for me cuz I make holy every day”...




Revelation 3:9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

And from New Moon to New Moon Sabbath to Sabbath...in the new heaven and new earth...and by those that are of circumcised heart “the inner Jew”...because clean inwardly first by faith cleanses outwardly...the law being spiritual by faith and then established outwardly...

Ok so Happy Sabbath...maybe pharisees can rest too?
 

KerimF

New member
There is one Holy Thing only in my life for which I am ready to lose everything I have, even my life, to keep it pure. It is the Image of God's Love Spirit in me.

Fortunately, Jesus came to show/teach me how I can keep my soul pure in this life, so that it will also deserve being in God's Realm of Love for eternity.
 

God's Truth

New member
nope...is a shadow of good things to come Col 2:17...has a shadow of good things to come Heb 10:1...and is a shadow of heavenly things Heb 8:5...but is NOT a shadow of a Person...[/QUOT]

Paul was speaking in the present about the shadows which began in the past and how JESUS' BODY is what made that shadow.

The shadow was about Jesus.

Jesus is the good that came.


Colossians 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

{quote]I gave you scriptures from Hebrews that SAY IT IS A PERSON.
you thought...


no one obeys the Sabbath...they try and keep it...

and? Those that play the game can only judge the game played.

I obey Jesus every day all day.
He is my Sabbath Rest.

You even admit you don't obey it.


there is still more good to come...don’t let your idol blind you...your “Sabbath is not for me cuz I make holy every day”...

You demean Jesus and his coming and what it means.


And from New Moon to New Moon Sabbath to Sabbath...in the new heaven and new earth..
The scriptures say there will be no more NIGHT!

So New Moon to New Moon and Sabbath to Sabbath is about EVERY DAY being a Sabbath Rest in the Lord.


Ok so Happy Sabbath...maybe pharisees can rest too?

You aren't funny.
 

KerimF

New member
All humans (actually their ruling systems) around the world have agreed since always (or in these days in the least) on having a weekend (one rest day, in the least, every 7 days ).

So, if someone tells me that his weekend is on Friday, I would know he is Muslim or his ruling system is Islamic.
if someone tells me that his weekend is on Sunday, I would know he is Christian or his ruling system is said to be Christian.
if someone tells me that his weekend is on Saturday, I would know he is Jewish or his ruling system is Jewish or Judeo-Christian.
if someone, around me, tells me that his weekend is on Monday, I would know he is a barber :)
But there are exceptions. Turkey is ruled by a fanatic radical Islamic group but its weekend is on Sunday.
Atheists, in China for example, rest on Sunday as if they were Christian :)

Conclusion:
In every region, humans (Atheists, Pagans, Muslims, Jews and Christians) have a rest day every week (if not two).
But this doesn't prevent some people around the world to observe their weekend as a Holy Day commanded by God not man.
 

clefty

New member
I obey Jesus every day all day.
very commendable except you don’t do the seventh day Holy part...so not sure how honest your claim actually is...

He is my Sabbath Rest.
your own construct of your own making like a golden calf...false worship...

as Sabbath rest is the seventh day...and He remains a person...not a period of time or place as in a promised land...

You even admit you don't obey it.
fail elsewhere too...as did even Paul...but at least I am honest...and in need of repentance and grace...apparently unlike you




You demean Jesus and his coming and what it means.
ignoring there are good things still to come these shadows are pointing to is demeaning what He is STILL GOING TO DO...and NOT memorializing His creation week or exodus from Egypt or His rest in the tomb is also demeaning WHAT Sabbath means...none of those happened every day...making every day Holy...



The scriptures say there will be no more NIGHT!
when and where...

After the last trump its resurrection...and the mellinium in Heaven...

when the New Heaven and New Earth are created up until which NOT A JOT OR TITTLE SHALL PASS...

and the New Jerusalem comes down...and the CITY has no need of the sun for the Glory of Yah and Yahushua Rev 21:23 as its gates are open ALL THE TIME yup...no night in that bright city of Light...

But nothing will enter that defiles...hmmm you gonna eat your cats bats and wombats there?
Or causes and abomination or a lie...hmmmm what about your everyday is Holy lie...

remember as in the garden of Eden and BEFORE SIN every day was in a sense holy clean undefined right? But the seventh day was SET APART SANCTIFIED and MADE HOLY...so it is NOT like the rest...that is the Law where “I AM”...

Rev 22:5 repeats “there will be no night THERE”...WHERE? In the city...for Yah gives them light...in that city so bright

So New Moon to New Moon and Sabbath to Sabbath is about EVERY DAY being a Sabbath Rest in the Lord.
A construct you constructed like a golden calf of false worship which will NOT be allowed to enter that city...

Your defiling and false teaching to cause others to stumble remain here and during this time...

As Paul says He winks at our ignorant idolatry but NOW is the time for ALL men EVERYWHERE to repent...


You aren't funny.
and you aren’t serious...about serving Him His Way
 

KerimF

New member
If Jesus commands me to serve God (The Father in Heaven and Him unified by the Holy Spirit), I wouldn't take his message seriously because it's me who needs to be served by his Creator, not the opposite.

A true loving father serves his children without expecting anything from them in return; his joy is in seeing them happy.
But this doesn't prevent many people around the world to see their Creator much like an earthly selfish king who needs followers and slaves to serve him and his imperfect kingdom.
 
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