genuineoriginal
New member
Too many idols around to be Biblical.
ECT Can you be a Christian and not go to church?
- Thread starter genuineoriginal
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Idolater
"Foundation of the World" Dispensationalist χρ
There's like an 'egg shell' surrounding authentic Christian worship (the Mass). 'Idols,' and the like are part of that shell, there's also a lot of 'rituals' that compose the shell. But where the yolk and the white are authentic Christian worship, once you get through the shell, you can see not only that Catholic Mass is the authentic Christian worship, but also that Catholicism is authentic Christianity and always has been, Catholicism is 'the Church' mentioned in the New Testament, and Catholic bishops are the successors of the first bishops, who were the authentic successors of the Apostles; because it is the Apostles, through the imposition of their own hands, who created the very first bishops. Apostolic succession has continued without interruption ever since the Apostolic age, right up to today, and Catholic bishops are the successors of the first bishops, who were the successors of the Apostles, as the supreme pastors of the one true Church, that Christ Himself and His Apostles built and developed during the Apostolic age.
We who were not raised Catholic are the only ones who experience this 'egg shell' surrounding the authentic Christian worship, which corresponds to the one Christian faith (Eph4:5KJV), and once through the shell, it is clear that the whole Mass is worship of Christ our Lord, the Father, and the Spirit only---the Mass does not and never does worship anybody or anything else, not Mary, not any of the Saints, nor the Apostles nor the scriptures, but God alone.
fwiw.
I'm not just picking on the Catholics , because I don't think any organized religion had the capability to connect people to Christ . And this is why.
No person or persons are given the entire truth when they come to Christ . So with that fact in mind , it dictates that we are always being changed , perfected , growing .Name me one church that has said hey , we have come to a better understanding of Christ , and we're going to change our teaching accordingly . They are all stuck in their doctrine and have no desire to grow in Christ .
Example :
There was a time when my wife wanted to attend a Catholic mass . So I supported her by going with her , not participating , but supporting her desire to follow Christ .
While I was listening , the priest raised the host during comunion and said , " Lord we are not worthy to receive you , but only say the word and we shall be healed " . Now , I heard that before , but this time it hit me like a ton of bricks . The priest had just asked Jesus to do something else , beyond what He did on the cross , for the healing of the congregations sins and infimaties. That is a huge problem , trampling on the blood of Christ any way you look at it .
So I made some attempts to bring it to the attention of some Catholics and priests , Because of course , I didn't think it was something they were doing intensionally . That was 16 years ago , and everyday , thousands of times all over the world , Christ blood is still being trampled upon , and trampled upon in His own name .
God will lead us through all kinds of fields , but we need to remember we are the field , and a field needs to keep growing .
genuineoriginal
New member
We all know that is not true.
The true Church existed before the church of Rome departed from the true faith to follow the teachings of Augustine the heretic and used the power of the Roman army to enforce their rule over the churches of Asia.
It is a shame that the Christianization of pagan rituals and celebrations did nothing but turn Roman Catholic into a paganized version of Christianity instead of the one true church.
May I suggest you stop drinking the kool-aid...
Idolater
"Foundation of the World" Dispensationalist χρ
The earliest Church was an organization of local churches who were all in communion with each other. The Apostles were the supreme pastors of that Church, they governed/administrated/led/pastored/managed/ruled the Church as a single body, the Body of Christ; a body of people who believed in Christ. The earliest Church was, iow, 'organized religion.'
The bishops of the Catholic Church, and especially the Pope, know the Apostolic oral tradition, passed on verbally/orally/by word of mouth from the Apostles to the first bishops that they themselves created through the imposition of their own hands, and from those bishops to their successors, and from their successors to the next bishops, and this process has continued without interruption so that the college of bishops of the Catholic Church never 'come to a better understanding of Christ,' though they do from time to time follow the biblical model (cf. Acts 15) and convene Church councils in order to better express/teach/proclaim/preach the one Christian faith (Eph4:5KJV) with a single voice.
Anybody who hasn't been formally excommunicated is welcome to attend Mass. Just be respectful, which I'm sure that you were.
Except for the right way to look at it, of course. The Church regularly reminds ourselves of our need of His mercy, and while the eternal penalties were paid for by His Passion, we still must bear the temporal penalties that our bad deeds done in the flesh earn us, and we regularly ask for mercy. Christ purifies us through the Eucharist first and foremost, but also through Penance, indulgences, and of course the Father can 'forgive us our trespasses' as well, as we pray when we pray the 'Our Father,' which we do every Mass, which is verbatim how the Lord Jesus instructed us to pray.
Or not.
No argument.
Idolater
"Foundation of the World" Dispensationalist χρ
OK, so let's go with that. Where is 'the true Church' now then? Is it in Asia still? Those dioceses whose bishops were excommunicated for teaching against the Trinity, those must be 'the true Church,' right? Have you identified/located them? And what are you doing to establish communion with that 'the true Church?'
Or is it your opinion that 'the true Church' was killed off, and stopped existing? There are a variety of very ancient Christian traditions that still exist today, who schismed from the Catholic Church many centuries ago, even before the Great Schism of AD 1054---surely one of those must be 'the true Church?' Which one? The Coptics? Oriental Orthodox? Which one?
What is 'the one true church' then? Because from where I sit, having imbibed and eaten of both the Sacred Scripture, and all history, the Catholic Church is the only Christian tradition with a valid claim to be the Church that Christ Himself said the He'd build upon Peter (Mt16:18KJV).
Idolater
"Foundation of the World" Dispensationalist χρ
Suggest what you like. I for one have thoroughly digested and excreted what remained of Clavinism. 'The elect' are simply 'the Church,' and everything Clavinists get so excited about concerning 'the elect,' are mere restatements of what the Church has always taught concerning herself and her members. And wrt God's sovereignty, the Catholic Church teaches the authentic doctrine of Divine Providence, where He is sovereign over His creation to the utmost, and we are free to either cooperate with His will (decretal and prescriptive will becomes one, when we freely, voluntarily cooperate with Him), or not; but either way, He is in complete control of everything.
In fact, it's this faith in His complete control, that partially led me to inspect Catholicism very carefully, because if it is true that God is in complete control of all history, then why would He bring about the Catholic Church at all? The answer, is that it's because it's His Church.
Right Divider
Body part
Total RCC propaganda.
The "early church" that you are trying to refer to was Israel (i.e., the TWELVE apostles that will judge the TWELVE tribes of Israel).
The body of Christ is something very different and did NOT exist when the twelve were ministering to Israel at Pentecost.
The body of Christ was revealed, by God, to and through the apostle Paul.
Idolater
"Foundation of the World" Dispensationalist χρ
Paul equates the Church with the Body of Christ. False dilemma on your part.
Right Divider
Body part
No, Paul calls the body of Christ a church. False logic on your part.
genuineoriginal
New member
That is funny. An idolatrous branch of Christianity excommunicating people for refusing to believe in a non-Biblical doctrine?
True faith has been preserved by God, as He has done in the past.
1 Kings 19:18 18 Yet I have left me seven thousand in Israel, all the knees which have not bowed unto Baal, and every mouth which hath not kissed him. |
True believers are hidden throughout Christianity, but they tend to leave denominations that have teachings and practices that oppose the scriptures.
True believers are often called heretics by organized Christian denominations for following the Way.
Acts 24:14-15 14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets: 15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust. |
Jesus never made the claim that He would build a church upon Peter.
Jesus gave Peter the name Peter to keep Peter reminded of the rock that Jesus would build His church upon.
The rock that Jesus built His church upon is this truth:
Matthew 16:15-16 15 He saith unto them, [JESUS]But whom say ye that I am?[/JESUS] 16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. |
Of course the "elect" make up the church. However, Rome is one human made denomination. Not everyone in the Roman church are a part of the body of Christ. Not many in the Roman church are elect.
Right Divider
Body part
You misspelled abomination.
Idolater
"Foundation of the World" Dispensationalist χρ
Ephesians 1:22-23 KJV 'the church, 23 Which is his body'
Idolater
"Foundation of the World" Dispensationalist χρ
Yeah, that idea was invented from whole cloth in the 1500s to justify the Reformation. Question: Were the Apostles 'hidden?' How about the bishops, for example Timothy and Titus, were they too 'hidden?' The notion of 'hidden Church' is not found in the Bible. You made it up, or worse, you simply accept what someone else made up, and not from Scripture either.
Yep, that's made up too. Nowhere found in Scripture. There is one Church in Scriptures, composed of local churches/dioceses, each composes of living, breathing Christians, who are not 'hidden.' They're all in communion with one another, and they all together form one Body/the Church.
Matthew 16:18 KJV to the contrary then.
False dilemma, since it's both. Catholicism believes and teaches just what you say here.
Besides, Matthew 16:16 KJV is Trinitarian, a very brief confession that Jesus Christ is God, and the exact way in which He is God---'the Son of the Living God.'
Right Divider
Body part
Indeed, THE CHURCH that Paul is TALKING ABOUT in THAT passage is the body of Christ.
There are other churches, like the church in the wilderness Acts 7:38 KJV
Idolater
"Foundation of the World" Dispensationalist χρ
Peter personally pastored the church that is in Rome, until he was murdered/unjustly executed by Nero. He was the chief of the Apostles, to whom Christ said that He'd give 'the keys.' When Peter died, his pastorate did not die with him, but he was succeeded in his office, by Linus, the second Pope/supreme pastor of the one Church.
A thing that the Catholic Church herself acknowledges.
All of them who believe that Christ Jesus is risen from the dead, are.
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Idolater
"Foundation of the World" Dispensationalist χρ
Well that's what I said all along.
That's one example, do you have another? And, nobody's talking about that 'church' here. There is no confusion here unless you insist.
No I didn't. There is a remnant of elect in the church at Rome. It's just not the only historic church or even the first historic church.