Calvinism Is The Gospel, So Only Believers Of Calvinism Are Saved.

[Arthur Brain]

You mean the scripture, God's word, which you desire to ignore and sweep away?!

No, just your man made doctrine.

 

[Right Divider]

Paul was the minister to the covenant/gospel that Jesus gave.

He taught the same thing.

2 Corinthians 3:6 He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant--not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

Peter taught God does not show favoritism.

Acts 10

34 Then Peter began to speak: “I now realize how true it is that God does not show favoritism

Paul taught God does not show favoritism.

That is the exact thing Paul says in Romans 10:12, and Romans 2:11.

John the baptizer

Matthew 3:2 and saying, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven has come near."

Matthew 3:8 Produce fruit worthy of repentance.

Luke 3:8 Therefore produce fruit worthy of repentance. And do not begin to say to yourselves, 'We have Abraham as our father.' For I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham.

Jesus Christ

Matthew 4:17 From that time on Jesus began to preach, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven has come near."

Paul the Apostle

Acts 20:21 testifying to Jews and Greeks alike about repentance to God and faith in our Lord Jesus.

Acts 20:26 First to those in Damascus, then to those in Jerusalem and in all Judea, and then to the Gentiles, I preached that they should repent and turn to God and demonstrate their repentance by their deeds.

Remain in your total confusion if you like and I know that you do.

I've addressed all of this stuff before, but you are deaf, dumb and blind.

 

[7djengo7]

There are only two types of persons, those that love God or those that hate God, God-lovers and God-haters. There are no neutral or middle grounds for all of mankind.

AMR

I thought that, according to Cavinism, the two types of persons are the ELECT, on the one hand, and the NON-ELECT, a.k.a. THE REPROBATE, on the other hand.

Now, if you want to talk about the two different types of ELECT persons, why then, Calvinism gives us:

1. The regenerate elect--those ELECT persons who are God-lovers, and are IN CHRIST,

and

2. The unregenerate elect--those ELECT persons who are God-haters, and are IN ADAM.

Now, we get that you, Ask Mr. Religion, consider yourself to be one of the ELECT. In addition to this, can you tell us, Ask Mr. Religion:

Were you, Ask Mr. Religion, ever unregenerate? Yes or No?

Were you, Ask Mr. Religion, ever a God-hater? Yes or No?

Were you, Ask Mr. Religion, ever IN ADAM? Yes or No?

 

[God's Truth]

Remain in your total confusion if you like and I know that you do.

I've addressed all of this stuff before, but you are deaf, dumb and blind.

This is Paul telling the Gentiles that they are imitator's of God's churches,
the Christian Jews:


1 Thessalonians 2:14 For you, brothers and sisters, became imitators of God’s churches in Judea,


Here Paul says that the JEWS are IN Christ Jesus. That proves they are in the body of Christ:


which are in Christ Jesus:


Here Paul says the Gentiles suffered like the Jews did by their own people:


You suffered from your own people the same things those churches suffered from the Jews


Paul says they killed the Lord and that he Paul was drove out; which proves the same gospel Jesus preached and Paul preached the same:


15 who killed the Lord Jesus and the prophets and also drove us out.

They displease God and are hostile to everyone

16 in their effort to keep us from speaking to the Gentiles so that they may be saved.

In this way they always heap up their sins to the limit. The wrath of God has come upon them at last.

 

[Right Divider]

This is Paul telling the Gentiles that they are imitator's of God's churches,
the Christian Jews:

1 Thessalonians 2:14 For you, brothers and sisters, became imitators of God’s churches in Judea,

Here Paul says that the JEWS are IN Christ Jesus. That proves they are in the body of Christ:

which are in Christ Jesus:

Here Paul says the Gentiles suffered like the Jews did by their own people:

You suffered from your own people the same things those churches suffered from the Jews

Paul says they killed the Lord and that he Paul was drove out; which proves the same gospel Jesus preached and Paul preached the same:

15 who killed the Lord Jesus and the prophets and also drove us out.

They displease God and are hostile to everyone

16 in their effort to keep us from speaking to the Gentiles so that they may be saved.

In this way they always heap up their sins to the limit. The wrath of God has come upon them at last.

I see that you and so many others that believe this and are unable to see differences in the ministries of the twelve and the one. You can only see similarities which you claim to be identical.

My pity for you will remain intact.

 

[glorydaz]

I don't account for it, for it is but a rationale all non-believers use to lessen their guilt and deserving of eternal punishment. It is simply not true.

Sin is the principle of enmity, whereby we hate God (Rom. 8:7), and He becomes our enemy, as a crime against the government of the universe by which, before God, the supreme governor and judge, we become deserving of everlasting death and malediction. Whence, sinners are expressly called “debtors” (Matthew 6:12), “enemies to God,” both actively and passively (Colossians 1:21), and “guilty before God” (Romans 3:19).

There are only two types of persons, those that love God or those that hate God, God-lovers and God-haters. There are no neutral or middle grounds for all of mankind. Most of the errors of the doctrine of justification are related to the denial of the full impact of the nature of sin in a person’s life. Those that cling to self-righteousness add something to faith alone as the means of justification. It is self-righteousness that lies at the root of a person’s questioning God’s right to judge or the justice of His condemnation. One need only read Matthew 23 to see the folly of this behavior, for it ultimately makes justification a process, a cooperative effort, wherein the defendant (sinner) makes excuses for himself before the Judge (God).

AMR

So you read hatred into the word enmity. :think:

What is Paul really saying here? That the unsaved man hates God, or that man is unable to please God. That doesn't mean God hates man or man hates God. It simply means that man's carnal mind is set on things of the flesh. Not even necessarily sinful things, but novels, movies, work, family...anything non spiritual. Unreconciled----not hateful. Those who "mind earthly things". Phil. 3:19KJV

Romans 8:6-8KJV For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. 8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.​

You'll see the word "reconciled" in your Col. 1:21 verse, too. Being unreconciled does NOT mean hatred for God exists.

Therefore, your claim of hatred is a bridge too far.

 

[nikolai_42]

Jesus says his words are Spirit and life. You must do what he says to get the Spirit and life.


Not of the works of the law, which are the purification/ceremonial works.

Paul is saying not of circumcision and the blood of animals.

Paul is NOT saying it is by not obeying Jesus.

I'm not saying it is by not obeying Jesus. I'm just saying it's not BY obeying Jesus that we are saved. Obedience comes from a changed heart. A saved individual has that changed heart when God changes the heart. The man who has a changed heart doesn't need to be told to obey his Master...he naturally does so (with joy!).

We do what Jesus says to do to make our heart right for him to live there, then we receive him and he lives to help us.

We make our heart right? How do we do that?

That is about believing in his blood to clean you instead of using the blood of animals and special baths, diet, and circumcision.


See, it is about the purification works that God gave Moses to teach and enforce.


That means don't doubt Jesus and his blood cleaning you of the sins you repent of instead of sacrificing animals, etc.


It says to say Jesus is your Lord. Jesus if you call him 'Lord', then you had better be obeying.

Luke 6:46 "Why do you call me, 'Lord, Lord,' and do not do what I say?

Matthew 7:21
Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of My Father in heaven.

No not true, for I know many people with faith yet they are sinners as always.



Oh no, you are wrong, for it is powerful to obey Jesus. Jesus says the one who 'willfully' does what he says will find out, which means will have faith.
How can anyone think Jesus a tyrant if they do what he says by humbling themselves like a child and trusting him? How can they not see the power in that after doing it? How can they think him a tyrant if they do what he says and forgive everyone who has sinned against them? They would feel the power.

It's interesting that you simply speak about obeying when Paul - to the Romans (gentiles) - spoke about believing and confessing. If you have to go on and on about obeying before someone starts to obey, it's because the heart hasn't been changed. What gospel do you have for someone who has been trying to obey Jesus but can't?

 

[God's Truth]

I see that you and so many others that believe this and are unable to see differences in the ministries of the twelve and the one. You can only see similarities which you claim to be identical.

My pity for you will remain intact.

Jesus isn't divided and he didn't send Paul to do away with his words and give him a different gospel that would go against the Twelve.

 

[Right Divider]

Jesus isn't divided and he didn't send Paul to do away with his words and give him a different gospel that would go against the Twelve.

Once again your logic and understanding are non-existent.

The gospel that God gave Paul does NOT "go against" the twelve. It does NOT conflict with them, but it is also not IDENTICAL.

That Paul CONFIRMS EVERYTHING that THEY said does not mean that Paul did not receive MUCH revelation from God about the MYSTERY of Christ.

Paul confirms EVERYTHING that came BEFORE him, but then he goes ON with the NEW revelation that God gave to HIM exclusively.

That you are to stubborn to accept this is your own fault.

 

[7djengo7]

Grace is unmerited favor. Grace is extended to many by God in common, sinner and believer alike (rain, sunshine, fortune, air that is breathed, etc.).

Mercy is getting what we do not deserve. In other words, we do not deserve mercy. Mercy is related to justice (all getting exactly what they are righteously due). In context of my posts in this thread, all in Adam deserve only justice. That God extends mercy to a great multitude no man can number should amaze and awe us; versus having not a few argue in such a manner herein as to presume God's mercy is obligated for all in Adam.

AMR

God's mercies are poured out upon the reprobate undeservedly while the walk this earth (temporally). Many are blessed with riches and success. The rain falls upon the good and bad alike. That is the point of the quoted portion you are all aflutter about. These things heap coals upon their heads, making their sins more odious to the holy God.

AMR

In the first quote, above, are you saying that whatever it is you call "grace" and whatever it is you call "mercy" are two, distinct things?

Clearly, in the first quote, you have stated that in providing rain and fortune, God is acting in GRACE toward sinners; now, by the word 'sinner', in your phrase "sinner and believer alike", do you mean non-elect sinners, too, or do you mean just the elect sinners?

In the second quote, you make God's provision of rain and fortune to be an act of God's MERCY toward those whom you consider "reprobate".

Now, how do you determine whether this or that particular rain event is an act of God's MERCY, OR, an act of God's GRACE?

 

[God's Truth]

I'm not saying it is by not obeying Jesus. I'm just saying it's not BY obeying Jesus that we are saved. Obedience comes from a changed heart. A saved individual has that changed heart when God changes the heart. The man who has a changed heart doesn't need to be told to obey his Master...he naturally does so (with joy!).

God doesn’t change people’s hearts supernaturally.
We have our hearts changed by doing what God says to do.
God saves those who change their own heart by repenting of their sins.

Ezekiel 18: 30Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways, saith the Lord GOD. Repent, and turn yourselves from all your transgressions; so iniquity shall not be your ruin. 31Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel? 32For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord GOD: wherefore turn yourselves, and live ye.

And many others.

We make our heart right? How do we do that?

By humbling ourselves like children, by repenting of our sins, and having a forgiving heart.

It's interesting that you simply speak about obeying when Paul - to the Romans (gentiles) - spoke about believing and confessing.

I gave you scriptures where Paul says to repent. I gave you scriptures where Jesus says if confess with your mouth Jesus is Lord, then you have to obey him.

If you have to go on and on about obeying before someone starts to obey, it's because the heart hasn't been changed. What gospel do you have for someone who has been trying to obey Jesus but can't?

Anyone can obey Jesus if they want to be saved. They have to want to be saved more than they want anything.

 

[God's Truth]

Once again your logic and understanding are non-existent.

The gospel that God gave Paul does NOT "go against" the twelve. It does NOT conflict with them, but it is also not IDENTICAL.

That Paul CONFIRMS EVERYTHING that THEY said does not mean that Paul did not receive MUCH revelation from God about the MYSTERY of Christ.

Paul confirms EVERYTHING that came BEFORE him, but then he goes ON with the NEW revelation that God gave to HIM exclusively.

That you are to stubborn to accept this is your own fault.

The Twelve were taught the mystery by Jesus when he walked the earth, and Paul was taught by Jesus after he ascended.

 

[MennoSota]

:mock: "it all says the same thing"

It's appropriate that you use the mock emoticon...

 

[MennoSota]

No, just your man made doctrine.

I have provided scripture. You have provided none. It would seem that it is your doctrine that is conjured up by man, not God.

 

[MennoSota]

I thought that, according to Cavinism, the two types of persons are the ELECT, on the one hand, and the NON-ELECT, a.k.a. THE REPROBATE, on the other hand.

Now, if you want to talk about the two different types of ELECT persons, why then, Calvinism gives us:

1. The regenerate elect--those ELECT persons who are God-lovers, and are IN CHRIST,

and

2. The unregenerate elect--those ELECT persons who are God-haters, and are IN ADAM.

Now, we get that you, Ask Mr. Religion, consider yourself to be one of the ELECT. In addition to this, can you tell us, Ask Mr. Religion:

Were you, Ask Mr. Religion, ever unregenerate? Yes or No?

Were you, Ask Mr. Religion, ever a God-hater? Yes or No?

Were you, Ask Mr. Religion, ever IN ADAM? Yes or No?

What does the Bible give us? Did Calvin read it with clear vision? If not, then expound on the scriptures. Failure to expound on God's word will paint you as the one who is not standing on God's word, but instead upon your own philosophy.

 

[Arthur Brain]

I have provided scripture. You have provided none. It would seem that it is your doctrine that is conjured up by man, not God.

I don't have a "doctrine", nor do I ascribe to any particular form of "organized" religion or denomination either. Calvinism isn't "the gospel" and neither are plenty other "ism's".

 

[ok doser]

I don't have a "doctrine"...

of course you do - you have oodles of doctrines

Calvinism isn't "the gospel" and neither are plenty other "ism's".

that's one of them :thumb:

 

[7djengo7]

I don't account for it, for it is but a rationale all non-believers use to lessen their guilt and deserving of eternal punishment. It is simply not true.

AMR

You just judged her to be a non-believer.

Or, did you really mean "for it is but a rationale all non-believers [as well as at least some believers, like you, glorydaz] use to lessen their guilt and deserving of eternal punishment"?

You know what you did, there. We know, too.

 

[MennoSota]

I don't have a "doctrine", nor do I ascribe to any particular form of "organized" religion or denomination either. Calvinism isn't "the gospel" and neither are plenty other "ism's".

Sure you do. With no conceptual doctrine you are a pagan.
The Gospel is God's word. Calvin, like all Christians read God's word and commented on what it said. He is no different than we who comment today. The question is whether what he observed in God's word is what the Bible says or is it made up...like your paganism? If Calvin did not observe God's word and write about it, what did he observe in order to come to his conclusions?

 

[nikolai_42]

God doesn’t change people’s hearts supernaturally.
We have our hearts changed by doing what God says to do.
God saves those who change their own heart by repenting of their sins.

Ezekiel 18: 30Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways, saith the Lord GOD. Repent, and turn yourselves from all your transgressions; so iniquity shall not be your ruin. 31Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel? 32For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord GOD: wherefore turn yourselves, and live ye.

And many others.


By humbling ourselves like children, by repenting of our sins, and having a forgiving heart.

I gave you scriptures where Paul says to repent. I gave you scriptures where Jesus says if confess with your mouth Jesus is Lord, then you have to obey him.

Anyone can obey Jesus if they want to be saved. They have to want to be saved more than they want anything.

That's not what I asked. What gospel do you have for someone who has tried to obey Jesus but is failing at it?