Brit government becoming Nazi-like

ffreeloader

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Neil Ferguson has come out and admitted that his inspiration for lockdowns is the CCP. There you go Eric. Here's the admission by a leader in the UK that communism is his ideal. Him a leader? Yup. He's responsible for all the lockdowns in the UK. He's the one that ran the phony numbers to get your nation into lockdowns. Yeah, I guess your elections and future are secure. They're right in the hands of the CCP. How fortunate you are to have such a future ahead of you. Knowing that probably makes your heart go pitter patter pit.

And as usual the powerful don't live by the rules they are forcing on all we little people. Ferguson broke his own rules. Remember? Ain't life grand in totalitarianville? Really just. Really fair. Just highly ethical right down the line.

 

Eric h

Active member
Guns are mainly used for things other than killing people in the US

Except in communities that have a high percentage of young negro males
Maybe there is a greater sense of injustice amongst negro males. Would you like to be black and live in the US? Their history in America is one of oppression and slavery. Even though segregation became illegal in the 60's, I don't believe there is the feeling that it's being implemented fairly today.

Sadly I think the UK was also guilty.
 

Eric h

Active member
The fact that he says to buy a sword at all says people have the right to purchase weapons.
When Jesus said buy a sword, it was because he knew what was going to happen on the Mount of Olives. If none of the disciples had weapons, they might have said, if only we had swords, then we could have defended you. Jesus anticipated this question in advance; Luke 22:36, buy swords. But just a few verses later Luke 22:51; Jesus tells his disciples not to use these same swords.

The ways of man might be for self defence, but it seems that Jesus was trying to teach us a more profound lesson. Love God, love your neighbours, love, pray and forgive your enemies as Jesus did on the cross. True justice can only happen when we meet our Lord in a greater good life after death.
 

JudgeRightly

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When Jesus said buy a sword, it was because he knew what was going to happen on the Mount of Olives. If none of the disciples had weapons, they might have said, if only we had swords, then we could have defended you. Jesus anticipated this question in advance; Luke 22:36, buy swords. But just a few verses later Luke 22:51; Jesus tells his disciples not to use these same swords.

Which is completely irrelevant to the point I just made.

AGAIN: The fact that Jesus told them to purchase weapons tells us that man has the right to purchase weapons.

God the Son wouldn't tell men do to something that they have no right to do.

The ways of man might be for self defence, but it seems that Jesus was trying to teach us a more profound lesson. Love God, love your neighbours, love, pray and forgive your enemies as Jesus did on the cross. True justice can only happen when we meet our Lord in a greater good life after death.

There is no "more profound lesson" to be taught here. Jesus had a plan, and telling them to pack heat was a way of accomplishing that plan.

The fact that he tells them at all to pack heat tells us that man has the right to do so, and that such a right is absolute.
 

ffreeloader

Well-known member
Here is something else Jesus inspired.

Ecclesiastes 3:1 To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:
2 A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted;*n1
3 A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up;
4 A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance;
5 A time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together; a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing;*n2
6 A time to get, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to cast away;*n3
7 A time to rend, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak;
8 A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace.
The Bible tells us that there was war in heaven. That means Jesus participated personally in the war to throw the devil and his cohorts out of heaven. That's no pacifist who will avoid violence at all costs.

It means Jesus will, when the circumstances require it, support violence as the history of the Israelites proves. Look at how many times He told His followers to stand and watch what He would do to their enemies.

His angel killed 185,000 Assyrian soldiers in one night. That means Jesus ordered those killings. And once again Jesus caused the slaughter of three nations during the days of king Jehoshaphat. Jesus caused the three nations to fight among themselves, and when the fighting was done and over with all the Jews found on the battle field were dead men. They had killed each other so that not one was left alive. Jesus had told Jehoshaphat to stand and watch what He would do. And He caused those armies to destroy themselves. He was directly responsible for all those deaths.

And during the reign of Rehoboam over the 10 tribes Rehoboam attacked Jerusalem with a vast army. Jesus interfered in that attack so that the army from Jerusalem killed 500,000 soldiers of Rehoboam.

The Biblical record is very, very clear that Jesus is not a pacifist who refuses to His power to kill those who oppose Him and His people.
 

ffreeloader

Well-known member
During His first time on earth, Jesus was a meek lamb... next time a roaring LION.
Jesus was on earth from the time of creation until He died on the cross. Now because of His humanity He cannot be everywhere at once. That's why He told His disciples that it was for their benefit He was going away. They would be spread across the world and He couldn't be with all of them at once except through the indwelling of the Comforter, the Holy Spirit.

Jesus told the Jews of His day that before Abraham was I AM. The Jews wanted to stone Him for that statement because He was making Himself God.

It was the I AM that created the earth and all that there is in it. It was the I AM who talked to Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden. It was the I AM who made the clothes from sheep skins for Adam and Eve after they had been kicked out of the Garden.

It was the I AM who came to visit and talk to Abraham and promised to make him the father of many nations. It was the I AM whom Abraham bargained with about the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah. It was the I AM that talked to Moses from the burning bush. It was the I AM that told Moses to lead the Israelites out of Egypt. It was the I AM in the fire by night and the cloud by day that led the Israelites. It was the I AM that gave Moses the tables of stone on which He wrote the 10 commandments. It was the I AM that called to the child Samuel during the night. It was the I AM who told Elijah what to do. It was the I AM that told David what to do. It was the I AM who gave Solomon all his wisdom and knowledge. It was the I AM who inspired all the prophets of the OT.

It was the I AM who came as the "lamb of God". So it was one and the same person who executed hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of people in the OT when He defended His people, and that came and gave up His life on the cross. It's impossible to separate those two persons as Jesus said He is that person.
 

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Jesus was on earth from the time of creation until He died on the cross.
That's certainly using the term "on earth" extremely loosely.
Now because of His humanity He cannot be everywhere at once.
Jesus did NOT stop "being God" when the Word became flesh.
Mat 18:20 KJV For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

That's why He told His disciples that it was for their benefit He was going away. They would be spread across the world and He couldn't be with all of them at once except through the indwelling of the Comforter, the Holy Spirit.
Matthew 18:20 disagrees.
Jesus told the Jews of His day that before Abraham was I AM. The Jews wanted to stone Him for that statement because He was making Himself God.
True.
It was the I AM that created the earth and all that there is in it. It was the I AM who talked to Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden. It was the I AM who made the clothes from sheep skins for Adam and Eve after they had been kicked out of the Garden.
Not as the Son of man.
It was the I AM who came to visit and talk to Abraham and promised to make him the father of many nations. It was the I AM whom Abraham bargained with about the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah. It was the I AM that talked to Moses from the burning bush. It was the I AM that told Moses to lead the Israelites out of Egypt. It was the I AM in the fire by night and the cloud by day that led the Israelites. It was the I AM that gave Moses the tables of stone on which He wrote the 10 commandments. It was the I AM that called to the child Samuel during the night. It was the I AM who told Elijah what to do. It was the I AM that told David what to do. It was the I AM who gave Solomon all his wisdom and knowledge. It was the I AM who inspired all the prophets of the OT.

It was the I AM who came as the "lamb of God". So it was one and the same person who executed hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of people in the OT when He defended His people, and that came and gave up His life on the cross. It's impossible to separate those two persons as Jesus said He is that person.
I really have no idea where you are going with this.

Jesus came to His people about two thousand years ago and will return to establish His kingdom on the earth in the future. Why does this seem to bother you?
 

ffreeloader

Well-known member
That's certainly using the term "on earth" extremely loosely.

Jesus did NOT stop "being God" when the Word became flesh.



Matthew 18:20 disagrees.

True.

Not as the Son of man.

I really have no idea where you are going with this.

Jesus came to His people about two thousand years ago and will return to establish His kingdom on the earth in the future. Why does this seem to bother you?
You seem to forget that Jesus is fully God and fully man. He knew He is our creator, and still He treated us as equals. Therefore when He talked to Abraham, Moses, etc... He remembered doing it while He was here on earth. At 12 years old He already knew who His real Father was. Wist ye not that I must be about my Father's business? He was here as fully God since the time He created everything here. He was here as the I AM. Was He lying to the Jews of His day when He said, before Abraham was I AM? He was stating His preexistence in a frame of reference that they could not help but understand. They understood Him correctly because they understood him to be asserting Himself to be the eternal God. Jesus is personally the I AM. He said the Father had prepared a body for Him. Hebrews 10:5 That didn't change who the I AM is, it just added human nature to Him and so limited Him in certain aspects because of human limitations. Think of how much love it took for Him to debase Himself to become human. The creator became one of the created.

Remember that Jesus talked with and met his disciples after His resurrection and glorification. And they accepted Him as both human and divine. He still had His human body. Remember Him telling Thomas to thrust his hand into His side and feel the nail prints in His hands? And He was still God. Just as Jesus having a human body after His incarnation didn't make Him any less God neither does retaining His human body after His resurrection make Him any less God. It's one of the very remarkable things that shows how much the Father loves we humans. He gave His Son to humanity forever. The Father made an eternal sacrifice along with His Son. The Godhead is forever changed just to save us. Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us. And Jesus retaining His human body will be a reminder to the universe for eternity of the sacrifice He made to save we measly little human beings who rebelled against Him.

I don't have a clue as to where you get the idea that I don't think Jesus is still God. That is the crux of my entire argument. I guess you don't understand to whom I made this argument.
 

Right Divider

Body part
You seem to forget that Jesus is fully God and fully man. He knew He is our creator, and still He treated us as equals. Therefore when He talked to Abraham, Moses, etc... He remembered doing it while He was here on earth. At 12 years old He already knew who His real Father was. Wist ye not that I must be about my Father's business? He was here as fully God since the time He created everything here. He was here as the I AM. Was He lying to the Jews of His day when He said, before Abraham was I AM? He was stating His preexistence in a frame of reference that they could not help but understand. They understood Him correctly because they understood him to be asserting Himself to be the eternal God. Jesus is personally the I AM. He said the Father had prepared a body for Him. Hebrews 10:5 That didn't change who the I AM is, it just added human nature to Him and so limited Him in certain aspects because of human limitations. Think of how much love it took for Him to debase Himself to become human. The creator became one of the created.

Remember that Jesus talked with and met his disciples after His resurrection and glorification. And they accepted Him as both human and divine. He still had His human body. Remember Him telling Thomas to thrust his hand into His side and feel the nail prints in His hands? And He was still God. Just as Jesus having a human body after His incarnation didn't make Him any less God neither does retaining His human body after His resurrection make Him any less God. It's one of the very remarkable things that shows how much the Father loves we humans. He gave His Son to humanity forever. The Father made an eternal sacrifice along with His Son. The Godhead is forever changed just to save us. Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us. And Jesus retaining His human body will be a reminder to the universe for eternity of the sacrifice He made to save we measly little human beings who rebelled against Him.

I don't have a clue as to where you get the idea that I don't think Jesus is still God. That is the crux of my entire argument. I guess you don't understand to whom I made this argument.
All of your rambling started as a reply to my comment "During His first time on earth, Jesus was a meek lamb... next time a roaring Lion".
I don't know what any of these replies have to do with that.
 
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Eric h

Active member
The Biblical record is very, very clear that Jesus is not a pacifist
Absolutely agree with you.
Jesus is not a pacifist who refuses to His power to kill those who oppose Him and His people.

Again, I agree with you. BUT God teaches us in many different ways. When Jesus spent his time on Earth, he gave us a new commandment, love one another as I have loved you. Jesus had to show us how to do this, ultimately he prayed on the cross forgive them Father for they know not what they do.

Jesus could not give us this new commandment if he had a sword in his hand.
 

JudgeRightly

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When Jesus spent his time on Earth, he gave us a new commandment, love one another as I have loved you.

That wasn't a new commandment.

You shall not take vengeance, nor bear any grudge against the children of your people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself: I am the Lord. - Leviticus 19:18 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Leviticus19:18&version=NKJV

Therefore love the stranger, for you were strangers in the land of Egypt. - Deuteronomy 10:19 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deuteronomy10:19&version=NKJV

Jesus had to show us how to do this, ultimately he prayed on the cross forgive them Father for they know not what they do.

Well, no. Your premise is wrong, therefore your argument is invalid.

Jesus could not give us this new commandment if he had a sword in his hand.

Again, you have completely missed the point of having some of his disciples packing heat in Gethsemane.

Answer, please:

What was Jesus' purpose in coming to Earth in the flesh?
 

JudgeRightly

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When Jesus said buy a sword, it was because he knew what was going to happen on the Mount of Olives.

Of course He did. He knew that Judas was going to betray Him, and that would bring the authorities to arrest Him.

If none of the disciples had weapons, they might have said, if only we had swords, then we could have defended you.

Missing the point.

If the disciples didn't have weapons, then the authorities likely wouldn't have arrested Him. Which would have been a pretty serious setback in Christ's plan.

Jesus anticipated this question in advance; Luke 22:36, buy swords. But just a few verses later Luke 22:51; Jesus tells his disciples not to use these same swords.

For the above reason, not because He doesn't want men to use the weapons He says they have the right to purchase.
 

Eric h

Active member
Again, you have completely missed the point of having some of his disciples packing heat in Gethsemane.

Answer, please:
The bottom line was Jesus did not want his disciples to use the said 'heat'. Violence begets more violence.

I truthfully believe you can challenge violence with kindness.

I have been a Street Pastor for thirteen years. This ministry was inspired by a minister in Jamaica, a friend of his was shot and killed by a gang of youths. After the funeral, the minister and a few parishioners prayed for these gangs of youths and asked, how can we help them. These unarmed parishioners then went out to engage with these gangs, who were mainly living in poverty and on drugs carrying guns. Over time profound changes started to happen. From this small beginning there are now about fifteen thousand volunteers mostly in the UK, who go out to minister to troubled souls. We wonder the streets of our towns until around four in the morning.

I can remember the first big drunken fight we saw; a group of about a dozen punching the living daylights out of each other. We have risk assessments which say we should walk away and phone the police; we have phones with a direct link to the police. But we were seeing people getting hurt, we prayed as we walked towards them, I saw one man punched to the ground, another was being kicked whilst on the road. We walked in the middle, all we could do is be a barrier between them, which means there are people in front and some behind who you cannot see. I don't know how it happens, but I experienced a profound sense of peace which is beyond my understanding. The thought of being hurt was not an issue. Somehow we absorb their anger, somehow they soak up our peace.

Gradually the fight calmed and stopped, we stayed with them for a time as tempers cooled. When it came time to leave, we had endless handshakes and hugs; people thanked us. I was in my sixties at the time; my two amazing partners were ladies in their seventies. We know we are the weakest people physically, we have no protective clothes or weapons; we don't do self defence. We know that any one of those people could punch us all out.

We are left with the thought, 'You will never look into the eyes of anyone who does not matter to God'. We look for the good in all people, even if the only thing visible is a bunch of drunken hooligans. If we search for something good, then we have to look for a good and peaceful solution.

Twice I have been in situations where I have asked someone to hand me their knife; and eventually they handed it over. I have lost count of the number of conflicts we have walked in the middle of. I can't understand how I have never been hit or hurt in thirteen years. We pray and we put our trust in the Lord and go.
 

Rusha

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Maybe there is a greater sense of injustice amongst negro males.
There is, as well as black women. For good reason. Hopefully they will receive justice and fairness starting towards the end of January.
 

eider

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The bottom line was Jesus did not want his disciples to use the said 'heat'. Violence begets more violence.

I truthfully believe you can challenge violence with kindness.

I have been a Street Pastor for thirteen years. This ministry was inspired by a minister in Jamaica, a friend of his was shot and killed by a gang of youths. After the funeral, the minister and a few parishioners prayed for these gangs of youths and asked, how can we help them. These unarmed parishioners then went out to engage with these gangs, who were mainly living in poverty and on drugs carrying guns. Over time profound changes started to happen. From this small beginning there are now about fifteen thousand volunteers mostly in the UK, who go out to minister to troubled souls. We wonder the streets of our towns until around four in the morning.

I can remember the first big drunken fight we saw; a group of about a dozen punching the living daylights out of each other. We have risk assessments which say we should walk away and phone the police; we have phones with a direct link to the police. But we were seeing people getting hurt, we prayed as we walked towards them, I saw one man punched to the ground, another was being kicked whilst on the road. We walked in the middle, all we could do is be a barrier between them, which means there are people in front and some behind who you cannot see. I don't know how it happens, but I experienced a profound sense of peace which is beyond my understanding. The thought of being hurt was not an issue. Somehow we absorb their anger, somehow they soak up our peace.

Gradually the fight calmed and stopped, we stayed with them for a time as tempers cooled. When it came time to leave, we had endless handshakes and hugs; people thanked us. I was in my sixties at the time; my two amazing partners were ladies in their seventies. We know we are the weakest people physically, we have no protective clothes or weapons; we don't do self defence. We know that any one of those people could punch us all out.

We are left with the thought, 'You will never look into the eyes of anyone who does not matter to God'. We look for the good in all people, even if the only thing visible is a bunch of drunken hooligans. If we search for something good, then we have to look for a good and peaceful solution.

Twice I have been in situations where I have asked someone to hand me their knife; and eventually they handed it over. I have lost count of the number of conflicts we have walked in the middle of. I can't understand how I have never been hit or hurt in thirteen years. We pray and we put our trust in the Lord and go.
Wow!
I am just so impressed by your post. So impressed!
You are all brave people ..... :)
Do you have ministers on Canterbury area?
 

Hilltrot

Active member
Would you like to be black and live in the US?
Yes. My life would be a lot easier. I've even thought about surgical operations to get this done. Have you met the "black" leader of BLM, Shaun King? Or perhaps Rachel Dolezal?

And it seems like you have never watched the movie "Get Out!" . . . You must be a racist who hates movies produced by black people.

What else can I say . . . Eric H obviously lives in the incredibly racist U.K. and only knows the U.S. through pop culture and visiting NYC - maybe Florida or Los Angeles.

Their history in America is one of oppression and slavery.
Yep, everything Eric learned about the U.S. came from the BBC. Eric's projecting his British history onto the U.S.

Even though segregation became illegal in the 60's
Segregation was never illegalized. You have no understanding of U.S. law.

I don't believe there is the feeling that it's being implemented fairly today.
First you say segregation is was illegalized and then you say it isn't being being fairly implemented. Are you a moron or just acting like one? Maybe that was a giant typo.
 

Derf

Well-known member
I have lived in the UK for 70 years. When I walk into town, I never have to worry that some unhinged person walking by me might be carrying a gun. I never worry about having a gun near me when I go to bed. I live in peace with these feelings.

It wont be a revolution, it will be a civil war, it will be Americans who have the right to power fighting against other Americans who think they have the right to rule.

If you live in fear of those things happening in the US, then they are your own fears. I don't have these fears; I put my trust in God.
It sounds more like you put your trust in disarmament.
 

Eric h

Active member
What was Jesus' purpose in coming to Earth in the flesh?

In relation to this thread and what has already been said. I don't believe he came with the intention of commanding people to carry swords.

I feel blessed to live in the UK and not have to worry about owning guns. It is your choice in the US to own guns, and that is your choice. I think we just have to respectfully differ in our beliefs.
 
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