Yes, which means God could have described the earth as a ball, spinning and moving through the firmament.
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Biblical Flat Enclosed Earth and Firmament
- Thread starter patrick jane
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1Mind1Spirit
Literal lunatic
:chuckle:
Derf
Well-known member
Yes, God could have described all kinds of things in the bible, but if He explained everything what fun would TOL be?
Maybe it means what it says. The earth hangs on nothing. It has foundations. Like you said, if you put the north in the center of the flat earth, he stretcheth out the north.
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Good point. I'm so glad I can edit, first I said good oint.
Job 38 KJV - Then the LORD answered Job out of the - Bible Gateway
If you think an enclosed flat earth and firmament is POSSIBLE you can see it in some scriptures.
Excerpt from Job 38 KJV -
Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
5Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
8Or who shut up the sea with doors, when it brake forth, as if it had issued out of the womb?
9 When I made the cloud the garment thereof, and thick darkness a swaddlingband for it,
10 And brake up for it my decreed place, and set bars and doors,
11 And said, Hitherto shalt thou come, but no further: and here shall thy proud waves be stayed?
12 Hast thou commanded the morning since thy days; and caused the dayspring to know his place;
13 That it might take hold of the ends of the earth, that the wicked might be shaken out of it?
14 It is turned as clay to the seal; and they stand as a garment.
15 And from the wicked their light is withholden, and the high arm shall be broken.
16 Hast thou entered into the springs of the sea? or hast thou walked in the search of the depth?
17 Have the gates of death been opened unto thee? or hast thou seen the doors of the shadow of death?
18 Hast thou perceived the breadth of the earth? declare if thou knowest it all.
19 Where is the way where light dwelleth? and as for darkness, where is the place thereof,
If you think an enclosed flat earth and firmament is POSSIBLE you can see it in some scriptures.
Excerpt from Job 38 KJV -
Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
5Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
8Or who shut up the sea with doors, when it brake forth, as if it had issued out of the womb?
9 When I made the cloud the garment thereof, and thick darkness a swaddlingband for it,
10 And brake up for it my decreed place, and set bars and doors,
11 And said, Hitherto shalt thou come, but no further: and here shall thy proud waves be stayed?
12 Hast thou commanded the morning since thy days; and caused the dayspring to know his place;
13 That it might take hold of the ends of the earth, that the wicked might be shaken out of it?
14 It is turned as clay to the seal; and they stand as a garment.
15 And from the wicked their light is withholden, and the high arm shall be broken.
16 Hast thou entered into the springs of the sea? or hast thou walked in the search of the depth?
17 Have the gates of death been opened unto thee? or hast thou seen the doors of the shadow of death?
18 Hast thou perceived the breadth of the earth? declare if thou knowest it all.
19 Where is the way where light dwelleth? and as for darkness, where is the place thereof,
Derf
Well-known member
No argument from me. We aren't. From our vantage point, the earth DOESN'T have a course/circuit to run. But that doesn't mean it isn't established in that way--it might mean that it wouldn't make sense to describe it that way to the people that would only see it from the point of view of the earth.
If we are also told the sun rises and sets, and it has a course/circuit, then that makes sense, though not with most flat earth models--at least for the rise and set.
Not so. I have a time lapse video on my Conspiracy thread that shows how the sun rises and sets in a flat enclosed earth and firmament. There are also videos in the flat earth thread by DFT Dave and me explaining how the sun operates in the southern hemisphere at the alleged "pole" and at the north pole. Polaris, the north star is also easily explained in a flat earth.
Side Note: The earth with people are referred to in the Bible as IN THE EARTH. Something to consider. I believe that God knows exactly what words He was using. See Job chapter 38 also.
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jaybird
New member
aliens can live outside a round earth but can not live outside a flat earth?
1Mind1Spirit
Literal lunatic
ROTFL.... How could one live inside a round earth?
1Mind1Spirit
Literal lunatic
Yup, I live in this earthen vessel.
1Mind1Spirit
Literal lunatic
It is a nice philosophy to think that God authored the scriptures. That is not consistent with what the scripture says. The books that have their authorship specified always claim to be written by people.
The scriptures don’t claim to be directly from God. The ones that have claims of authorship claim to be written by people.
Of course, I desire to know God.
Yes, I know that you have a high opinion of your education.
I find that to be truly amusing, given how you value traditions above what the scriptures actually say.
They say that the rakia (firmament) is a literal solid dome around the earth. Thus I suppose, since this is what they believe, that would mean that "aliens" cannot come to earth because they cannot get through the rakia-firmament-solid-dome so as to invade our planet, (or I suppose in that mindset I should not say planet, but perhaps disc, lol). However this comes from cherry picked so-called Hebrew experts who say that the rakia must necessarily be something solid in ancient Hebrew thinking: but that is not true, and because they cherry picked a few so-called Hebrew experts who agree, that therefore means in their minds that all Hebrew experts agree. What they apparently do not realize is that the rakia is then called the shamayim, they are the same thing, and shamayim is the word which we render as heaven or heavens: and thus, if they say that the rakia-firmament is a solid dome, then they now have the sun and moon cemented into a solid structure called the shamayim. The whole thing really is a misunderstanding of the text because now, not only do you have a solid dome around a flat earth, but also the two great luminaries and the stars are cemented into the solid dome which encloses the atmosphere. If their model were actually true to the scripture: the luminaries would be cemented in place within the solid dome and not free-floating in the upper atmospheric chamber of their model. :chuckle:
Genesis 1:6-8
6 And Elohim said, Let there be a rakia in the midst of the waters, and let it divide waters from waters.
7 And Elohim made the rakia, and divided the waters which were beneath the rakia from the waters which were above the rakia: and it was so.
8 And Elohim called the rakia, "Shamayim", (Heavens), and there is evening, and there is morning, Yom Sheni.
Shamayim-Heavens is the proper name for the rakia-firmament: they are the same thing. Keep this in mind as you read what follows, and imagine for a moment, as the flat-earthers say, that the rakia-shamayim is a solid dome-like structure around a supposed flat earth:
Genesis 1:14-19
14 And Elohim said, Let there be lights in the rakia shamayim to divide the yom from the laylah; and let them be for signs, and for appointed times, and for yamim, and shanim:
15 And let them be for lights in the rakia shamayim to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
16 And Elohim made two great lights; the greater light to rule the yom, and the lesser light to rule the laylah: he made the stars also.
17 And Elohim set them in the rakia shamayim, to give light upon the earth:
18 And to rule over the yom and over the laylah, and to divide the light from the darkness: and Elohim beheld that it was good.
19 And there is evening, and there is morning, Yom Rebii.
See the problem here? If you say the rakia is solid then by default you are saying the shamayim-heavens are solid because the Shamayim is the name given for the rakia: they are the same thing, and therefore the rakia cannot be a solid dome around the earth because all the lights or luminaries are stationed in the rakia-shamayim. The rakia is the shamayim; and it is therefore an expanse, and before the luminaries it was an empty expanse: not a solid structure.
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Breadth definition from the Bible:
KJV Dictionary Definition: breadth
breadth
BREADTH, n. bredth. The measure or extent of any plain surface from side to side; a geometrical dimension, which,multiplied into the length, constitutes a surface; as,the length of a table is five feet, and the breadth, three; 5x3=15 feet, the whole surface.
I notice how this topic gets people riled up. It did me for a while, probably still will. Even admitting that it's remotely possible seems to be taboo for most. Admit to yourself privately that you don't know for sure and go from there. Do your own research and study the scriptures.
@patrick jane
The top image file in your following post from Pg1 is a perfect example of what I mean: the image file is not literal enough if indeed you want to read these things as literal and physical. If you insert sun and moon into the text of Gen1, as you do, (without justification because Moses speaks of the sun and moon elsewhere but they are not written anywhere in Gen1), then you must do as the scripture says in your imagery and model, and place the sun and moon IN THE RAKIA-FIRMAMENT, which you say is a solid crust-like dome around the atmosphere or sky. But when viewing the image file you posted, which is typical of most of what is seen on the web, (no surprise as it is from Logos Bible Software), the sun and moon and stars are clearly not placed within the supposedly solid rakia or outer crust:
Nope, as the second graphic shows: you imagine the sun and moon free to float around and hover the supposedly flat disc of the earth. However the scripture says that Elohim called the rakia-firmament-expanse, "Shamayim", (Heavens), so the rakia is the shamayim, which is the heavens, which are not a solid expanse or structure, though they cannot be moved by man: it is, they are, the rakia-expanse of the heavens, so there is no solid dome-like crust around the atmosphere of the earth even according to the scripture, not even if you take Gen1 as speaking of the literal physical cosmos creation.
The top image file in your following post from Pg1 is a perfect example of what I mean: the image file is not literal enough if indeed you want to read these things as literal and physical. If you insert sun and moon into the text of Gen1, as you do, (without justification because Moses speaks of the sun and moon elsewhere but they are not written anywhere in Gen1), then you must do as the scripture says in your imagery and model, and place the sun and moon IN THE RAKIA-FIRMAMENT, which you say is a solid crust-like dome around the atmosphere or sky. But when viewing the image file you posted, which is typical of most of what is seen on the web, (no surprise as it is from Logos Bible Software), the sun and moon and stars are clearly not placed within the supposedly solid rakia or outer crust:
Flat earth model (one possible depiction)
Nope, as the second graphic shows: you imagine the sun and moon free to float around and hover the supposedly flat disc of the earth. However the scripture says that Elohim called the rakia-firmament-expanse, "Shamayim", (Heavens), so the rakia is the shamayim, which is the heavens, which are not a solid expanse or structure, though they cannot be moved by man: it is, they are, the rakia-expanse of the heavens, so there is no solid dome-like crust around the atmosphere of the earth even according to the scripture, not even if you take Gen1 as speaking of the literal physical cosmos creation.
The top picture is the ancient Hebrew rendering. The other image is from somebody's imagination in modern days. Go with the Hebrew picture, the other one shows how the earth is lit by the sun as it moves across the sky. God makes it work. Who can know?
Romans 11:33-36 KJV - [FONT="]O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out![/FONT][FONT="]34 For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor?[/FONT]
[FONT="]35 Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?[/FONT]
[FONT="]36 For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.
Isaiah 40:13 KJV - Who hath directed the Spirit of the Lord, or being his counsellor hath taught him?[/FONT]
Isaiah 48:13 KJV - [FONT="]Mine hand also hath laid the foundation of the earth, and my right hand hath spanned the heavens: when I call unto them, they stand up together.[/FONT]
Sorry, friend, you but Tambora was correct in the other thread, (see here, #57, and my initial response here, #60), in that the "ancient Hebrew cosmology" which you see in the Logos Bible Software imagery is nothing more than Dr. Michael Heiser's idea of "ancient Hebrew cosmology", (https://www.logos.com/academic/bio/heiser).
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