His_saving_Grac
New member
Z-Man.
No, I haven't forgot. But what occured to me today is that it can't be that way.
You see, we see in the bible how often God punished the Israelites for forgetting Him and worshipping "other gods".
But I have to assume that what is glossed over is that if God was really upset at people worshipping other gods, why would He reward the Philistines/Caanites/Moabites/ ...et al.
Since this is contradictory to what we are taught in church, we have to dig deeper and figure out why. I am not sure how many people question, because most live their lives in fear of Him. I don't, so I ask.
I want to know how he can be contradictory in this in which he punishes the idolators by rewarding the idolators. If we believe the OT exactly as written, then we must also look at it from the other point of view. The POV of the non-chosen people.
For God to really have given his people into the hands of those is to enforce into the heads of the 'pagan' tribe that their gods actually did win. They never would have seen it as the Lord handing his people over for punishment, but that the gods they worshipped as blessing them, just the same way we see these stories in the POV of the Israelis.
So we have been lied to in our teaching. In the interpretations. The bible is extreemly biased, and the OT is written for those who see ghosts on a daily basis, and for thosae who are so ingrained that they never can concieve questioning God as anything but blasphemy.
These are the same people who taught us that Samson was a hero, when he really was a lechor, who couldn't control his sexual desires, nor his firm belief in vengence, even though he was the one who sarted the problem in the first place. (In Judges, after he had killed the lion, he gave a riddle to 30 people. It was a riddle that only pertained to him, dealing with the lion and the honey he found in the carcass, and that since it wasn't something one could possibly guess or deduce, he showed his demeanor and mindset. When he lost, much in the same way that he was decieving himself, he goes out and kills 30 people, and steals everything they own to pay off his debt in the bet. They don't like to tell you that in Sunday School).
Anyway, those who choose to look deeperinto the OT, knows that while much may be true, the majority is made in a biased manner. The same way we, as children, were taught the heroism of many who, on retrospect, show that there really wasn't much to admire in them.
So these stories were meant to scare people into Godliness. And the reason the jewish tribes left god so often was not really because they chose to sin, but because NO ONE can live their entire life in fear.
Since YOU have already looked deeper into the bible, you should also know that the anger shouldn't be with God, but with what we are taught about God.
After all, if we are taught that someone is a grweat hero, and when we see their true life against what we were told to see, we can do nothing BUT feel disillussioned. It is that or to deny. Too many christians are still living in denial. And to many who should be christians end up rejecting, much as you are doing.
The basic message is there in the bible. The stories we are told, are the lies. Just as Samson, and Gideon, and Jephthah, and Moses, and Lot, and Abraham, and all the rest were not perfect, neither are the stories we are taught. How would YOU like to have to tell a group of 7-10 year olds that Samson, while doing the work of God, was sleeping around with all types of women? That Lot slept with his daughters and they bore his children. That David was a lech, a murderer, a drunk, and a coward who let his son be punished for HIS sins? Just as YOU wouldn't say that to your children, they won't say that to any children.
The problem is that MILLIONS who attend sunday school, end up with only their teachings FROM sunday school in their minds. They NEVER read the stories as written in the bible. whne told about them, they usually do one of two thing. Reject completely God, or deny and live in fear, yet sin anyway and use the stories as a reason to continue to sin.
like you, if that was all that God was, and all I had was these stories, I would (and did) reject Him and them. But that isn't all I have. I can not deny what happened to me in the past, nor even what happened to me a little over a year ago. I have tried and tried to deny it, but I can't.
God isn't like the story built God of the OT, nor is He exactly the same way we get the picture in the NT either. Both texts embelish, or place bias on the truth. But God IS pure love, which I DO know. He is forgiveness. He is NOT up there laughing in derission, nor willing anyone to suffer, nor up there looking for vengence. I am not sure how ANY human could POSSIBLY hurt God that He would need to take vengence.
I don't believe in hell, as you already know. Nor do I believe satan is the evil fallen angel we are taught. Our concept of evil is God's concept of leaving his teachings. We placed the idea of an "evil" being to excuse our mistakes. That just doesn't cut it anymore for the scientific mind.
But neither does rejection cut it. The 'big bang" theory is just as much of a grasp as the idea of a being that knows and has existed much longer than we have. We now can create life from a cell. We are only human. Why can't there be a being that could create life millions of years ago when this planet was young?
If this were a sci-fi novel, it would be very much accepted, and much like most sci-fi novels, the concepts of the writer usually end up a reality. Space Flight was dreamed up before real flight had ever happened. The computor was in existance (in the mind of sci-fi writers) in it's present form before anyone ever even thought about Coleco vision. And Asminovs 3 rule concept for robots will probably be really enforced the minute we do develop artificial intelligence. Heck, God created artificial intelligence here in this forum often enough.
The point is that you deny this existence because of childrens stories. Stories told around campfires for millenia. It isn't God you are upset with, it is the teachings and the disillussionment that came with the actual reading. It is much like those who follow c.moore are going to feel. They are being lied to, and we were lied to.
But it doesn't have to end that way. You have evolved past the point where childrens stories in the bible have any kind of grasp on your clinical mind, yet the scientific childrens stories have just replaced them.
Just as I can not prove to you that I know personally that God DOES exist if you won't take me up on the hypnosis offer, you can not prove He doesn't. You CAN prove that the being we were taught was God is not anyone worth our worship, but that isn't the God I worship anyway. That, again, is the god of parents. The god who is taught to place fear into the minds of children to keep up a certain moral standard, and then to use as an excuse to use the all too human emotions of hate, rage, anger, deceit...
Do you see where I am coming from? I really do understand the reason one would go from pure belief into a total lack of belief. But I had the benefit of some experiances that wouldn't leave me alone for 20+ years, and then the last one.
Do you want to know the REAL definition of frustation? It is knowing something that only YOU have seen. I don't mean I am the onlyone to ever encounter God, but I am the only one who was there WHEN I encountered God. There were witnesses to the times where I had intervention, but no one was there when we talked.
Think on it this way. How do you think the world would react if you said you had seen a UFO AND talked with the aliens on board?
The worst part of frustration is knowing that the alien encounter would be more accepted by people than a personal encouter with God would be.
THAT, my friend, is the TRUE definition of frustration.
No, I haven't forgot. But what occured to me today is that it can't be that way.
You see, we see in the bible how often God punished the Israelites for forgetting Him and worshipping "other gods".
But I have to assume that what is glossed over is that if God was really upset at people worshipping other gods, why would He reward the Philistines/Caanites/Moabites/ ...et al.
Since this is contradictory to what we are taught in church, we have to dig deeper and figure out why. I am not sure how many people question, because most live their lives in fear of Him. I don't, so I ask.
I want to know how he can be contradictory in this in which he punishes the idolators by rewarding the idolators. If we believe the OT exactly as written, then we must also look at it from the other point of view. The POV of the non-chosen people.
For God to really have given his people into the hands of those is to enforce into the heads of the 'pagan' tribe that their gods actually did win. They never would have seen it as the Lord handing his people over for punishment, but that the gods they worshipped as blessing them, just the same way we see these stories in the POV of the Israelis.
So we have been lied to in our teaching. In the interpretations. The bible is extreemly biased, and the OT is written for those who see ghosts on a daily basis, and for thosae who are so ingrained that they never can concieve questioning God as anything but blasphemy.
These are the same people who taught us that Samson was a hero, when he really was a lechor, who couldn't control his sexual desires, nor his firm belief in vengence, even though he was the one who sarted the problem in the first place. (In Judges, after he had killed the lion, he gave a riddle to 30 people. It was a riddle that only pertained to him, dealing with the lion and the honey he found in the carcass, and that since it wasn't something one could possibly guess or deduce, he showed his demeanor and mindset. When he lost, much in the same way that he was decieving himself, he goes out and kills 30 people, and steals everything they own to pay off his debt in the bet. They don't like to tell you that in Sunday School).
Anyway, those who choose to look deeperinto the OT, knows that while much may be true, the majority is made in a biased manner. The same way we, as children, were taught the heroism of many who, on retrospect, show that there really wasn't much to admire in them.
So these stories were meant to scare people into Godliness. And the reason the jewish tribes left god so often was not really because they chose to sin, but because NO ONE can live their entire life in fear.
Since YOU have already looked deeper into the bible, you should also know that the anger shouldn't be with God, but with what we are taught about God.
After all, if we are taught that someone is a grweat hero, and when we see their true life against what we were told to see, we can do nothing BUT feel disillussioned. It is that or to deny. Too many christians are still living in denial. And to many who should be christians end up rejecting, much as you are doing.
The basic message is there in the bible. The stories we are told, are the lies. Just as Samson, and Gideon, and Jephthah, and Moses, and Lot, and Abraham, and all the rest were not perfect, neither are the stories we are taught. How would YOU like to have to tell a group of 7-10 year olds that Samson, while doing the work of God, was sleeping around with all types of women? That Lot slept with his daughters and they bore his children. That David was a lech, a murderer, a drunk, and a coward who let his son be punished for HIS sins? Just as YOU wouldn't say that to your children, they won't say that to any children.
The problem is that MILLIONS who attend sunday school, end up with only their teachings FROM sunday school in their minds. They NEVER read the stories as written in the bible. whne told about them, they usually do one of two thing. Reject completely God, or deny and live in fear, yet sin anyway and use the stories as a reason to continue to sin.
like you, if that was all that God was, and all I had was these stories, I would (and did) reject Him and them. But that isn't all I have. I can not deny what happened to me in the past, nor even what happened to me a little over a year ago. I have tried and tried to deny it, but I can't.
God isn't like the story built God of the OT, nor is He exactly the same way we get the picture in the NT either. Both texts embelish, or place bias on the truth. But God IS pure love, which I DO know. He is forgiveness. He is NOT up there laughing in derission, nor willing anyone to suffer, nor up there looking for vengence. I am not sure how ANY human could POSSIBLY hurt God that He would need to take vengence.
I don't believe in hell, as you already know. Nor do I believe satan is the evil fallen angel we are taught. Our concept of evil is God's concept of leaving his teachings. We placed the idea of an "evil" being to excuse our mistakes. That just doesn't cut it anymore for the scientific mind.
But neither does rejection cut it. The 'big bang" theory is just as much of a grasp as the idea of a being that knows and has existed much longer than we have. We now can create life from a cell. We are only human. Why can't there be a being that could create life millions of years ago when this planet was young?
If this were a sci-fi novel, it would be very much accepted, and much like most sci-fi novels, the concepts of the writer usually end up a reality. Space Flight was dreamed up before real flight had ever happened. The computor was in existance (in the mind of sci-fi writers) in it's present form before anyone ever even thought about Coleco vision. And Asminovs 3 rule concept for robots will probably be really enforced the minute we do develop artificial intelligence. Heck, God created artificial intelligence here in this forum often enough.
The point is that you deny this existence because of childrens stories. Stories told around campfires for millenia. It isn't God you are upset with, it is the teachings and the disillussionment that came with the actual reading. It is much like those who follow c.moore are going to feel. They are being lied to, and we were lied to.
But it doesn't have to end that way. You have evolved past the point where childrens stories in the bible have any kind of grasp on your clinical mind, yet the scientific childrens stories have just replaced them.
Just as I can not prove to you that I know personally that God DOES exist if you won't take me up on the hypnosis offer, you can not prove He doesn't. You CAN prove that the being we were taught was God is not anyone worth our worship, but that isn't the God I worship anyway. That, again, is the god of parents. The god who is taught to place fear into the minds of children to keep up a certain moral standard, and then to use as an excuse to use the all too human emotions of hate, rage, anger, deceit...
Do you see where I am coming from? I really do understand the reason one would go from pure belief into a total lack of belief. But I had the benefit of some experiances that wouldn't leave me alone for 20+ years, and then the last one.
Do you want to know the REAL definition of frustation? It is knowing something that only YOU have seen. I don't mean I am the onlyone to ever encounter God, but I am the only one who was there WHEN I encountered God. There were witnesses to the times where I had intervention, but no one was there when we talked.
Think on it this way. How do you think the world would react if you said you had seen a UFO AND talked with the aliens on board?
The worst part of frustration is knowing that the alien encounter would be more accepted by people than a personal encouter with God would be.
THAT, my friend, is the TRUE definition of frustration.
