I have been asked not to reply to posts that are off point from the OP.
Let me know if you start a thread or a PM about it.
Rhema
Am I saved from the Christian point of view?
- Thread starter garyflet
- Start date
Let me know if you start a thread or a PM about it.
Rhema
There is no doubt that those who got off the ark after the flood were the ones who endured until the end.
The same thing will apply when our "Ark" judges humanity on the last day.
Those who remained in Christ will be saved.
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Those who enter the ark through the door will be unable to exit the ark once that door shuts but, of course, no saved person will ever desire to turn back away from Jesus once the Spirit of Jesus is indwelling them to will and to do of His good pleasure. Because the true believer is born of God, he can never commit the sin of rejecting God that sends people to hell.
1 John 3:9
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
The phrase "knowledge of good and evil" is not talking about what you know or don't know in your mind. It is a euphemism. It is a reference to the law. For a person to "have no knowledge of good and evil" simply means that the law is not being applied to that person.
I will spend ZERO effort attempting to establish this biblical fact for an unbeliever. I cannot imagine a larger waste of time than that. The point is that your conclusions are false because your premises are false. Garbage in - garbage out.
There isn't anyway possible that you didn't know that this was a stupid question when you asked it.
It isn't physical death that we're talking about, Gary. Everyone dies physically, the how is little more than trivia in the grand scheme of things. Man is appointed once to die (physically) and then the judgement. It is condemnation that we all deserve.
But, of course, you knew that when you parroted this idiotic question that you did NOT come up with on your own.
Same answer as above.
I'm bored. You're boring me, Gary.
I never gave any such answer! God does NOT love everyone living nor should we! (not in the sense you mean it, anyway)
Psalm 11:5 The Lord tests the righteous, But the wicked and the one who loves violence His soul hates.
Psalms 15:1 Lord, who may abide in Your tabernacle?
Who may dwell in Your holy hill?
2 He who walks uprightly,
And works righteousness,
And speaks the truth in his heart;
3 He who does not backbite with his tongue,
Nor does evil to his neighbor,
Nor does he take up a reproach against his friend;
4 In whose eyes a vile person is despised,
But he honors those who fear the Lord;
He who swears to his own hurt and does not change;
5 He who does not put out his money at usury,
Nor does he take a bribe against the innocent.
Psalm 139:21 Do I not hate them, O Lord, who hate You? And do I not loathe those who rise up against You?
Proverbs 6:
12 A worthless person, a wicked man,
Walks with a perverse mouth;
13 He winks with his eyes,
He shuffles his feet,
He points with his fingers;
14 Perversity is in his heart,
He devises evil continually,
He sows discord.
15 Therefore his calamity shall come suddenly;
Suddenly he shall be broken without remedy.
16 These six things the Lord hates,
Yes, seven are an abomination to [h]Him:
17 A proud look,
A lying tongue,
Hands that shed innocent blood,
18 A heart that devises wicked plans,
Feet that are swift in running to evil,
19 A false witness who speaks lies,
And one who sows discord among brethren.
Utterly stupid nonsense.
Romans 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, 21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Professing to be wise, they became fools, 23 and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man—and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things.
24 Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves, 25 who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
26 For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. 27 Likewise also the [j]men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting; 29 being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers, 30 backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31 undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving, unmerciful; 32 who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them.
I don't need your help and they aren't emails.Pleas note it is not necessary to respond to each sentence individually here, that can lead to monstrously long emails, endless tangents, and the answer to the question can get lost! Please, just give a clear, summary statement on your answers to these questions at your leisure. Thanks so much!
Gary
Clete
Liar. If you had anything, a whole herd of wild horses couldn't keep you from posting it.
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Hebrews 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.
Agreed.
That, or any other sin.
Agreed.
Heb 6:4-6 goes along with 1 John 3:9 nicely.
God encourages believers to continue on in the things of God after they are saved, to insure their salvation is real, for one thing.
2 Peter 1:10
Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
Those who fall away prove their salvation was never real.
Matthew 7:23
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
That's your doctrine but the bible explicitly says otherwise.
Hebrews 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.
"those who were once enlightened" (past tense)
"those who...have tasted the heavenly gift" (past tense)
"those who...became partakers of the Holy Spirit" (past tense)
"those who...tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come" {past tense)
"if they fall away"
"impossible....to RENEW them to repentance"
"they crucify AGAIN for THEMSELVES the Son of God"
What's ironic is that you're half right in your belief that believers cannot lose their salvation today. My point here is not to argue that one can lose their salvation today but only that you know, and are loyal to, your doctrine more than God's word. You believe what you've been taught to believe, not what the bible actually teaches and so even the things you get right are arrived at in spite of yourself.
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God enlightens all men.
John 1:9
That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
Tasting is not drinking.
Matthew 27:34
They gave him vinegar to drink mingled with gall: and when he had tasted thereof, he would not drink.
Jesus gave Judas power to cast out demons. The Spirit of God spoke through Baalim. Unsaved believers have always been found among true believers, sharing in the fellowship and worship. But fake believers are not true believers.
John 2
23 Now when he was in Jerusalem at the passover, in the feast day, many believed in his name, when they saw the miracles which he did.
24 But Jesus did not commit himself unto them, because he knew all men,
25 And needed not that any should testify of man: for he knew what was in man.
Matthew 7
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Sinners can repent of their sins and not get saved. But, apart from circumstances known only to God, apostates who reject what they know to be the truth will never be convicted of their sins again and drawn to Jesus in repentance.
Hebrews 10
29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
You're a fool. If you're okay with twisting plainly stated verses of scripture to mean anything other than what they explicitly state then why bother with the bible at all, much less debating it! Just believe what you want to believe and drop the pretense!
Welcome to my ignore list. Good bye.
I had been directly asked by the OP (@garyflet)... you could ask him...
I happen to have respect for my fellow man.
(And God has noted your accusation.)
Rhema
(Of course you could always start a new thread and invite me in... )
Rhema, go ahead and post what you want on this thread. I don't seem to have any trouble finding notes addressed to me. I withdraw my request to stick to the general themes established so far.
Gary
Dear Clete,
Thank you for your reply. As you know, I sometimes have trouble interpreting your answers. And I think that I've got too many questions going here, so maybe it will be easier for you if I stick to just one simple question which stems from the statement on the list which is:
So your answer to some of the questions seems to be that nobody deserves physical death, it's just "appointed". But isn't physical death a consequence of sin? Adam and Eve sinned in the Garden of Eden and as a result, they and their descendants must die. Romans 5:12 "Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death came through sin, and so death spread to all because all have sinned...". Here Paul is talking about physical death. There was no old age and physical death originally in the Garden, but as a consequence of their sin, they were subject to old age and physical death. Old age and physical death then spread to all their descendants because they also sinned. Thus it would seem that everyone deserves physical death. As JudgeRightly said in an earlier post: "Thus, the payment for your sins in order to balance the ledger, so to speak, is death. The only thing that will balance the ledger is death. In other words, you're a dead man walking! The only reason you're not in the grave already is because God is merciful." So everyone deserves physical death, no?
Thanks for any reply,
Gary
Thank you for your reply. As you know, I sometimes have trouble interpreting your answers. And I think that I've got too many questions going here, so maybe it will be easier for you if I stick to just one simple question which stems from the statement on the list which is:
- We, having willfully done evil things and rebelled against God, who gave us life, deserve death.
So the list is not talking about physical death. Physical death is appointed, but it is the judgement, the condemnation that we all deserve. So although the common meaning of the word "death" is physical death, the list uses the word to mean eternal suffering in hell.
So your answer to some of the questions seems to be that nobody deserves physical death, it's just "appointed". But isn't physical death a consequence of sin? Adam and Eve sinned in the Garden of Eden and as a result, they and their descendants must die. Romans 5:12 "Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death came through sin, and so death spread to all because all have sinned...". Here Paul is talking about physical death. There was no old age and physical death originally in the Garden, but as a consequence of their sin, they were subject to old age and physical death. Old age and physical death then spread to all their descendants because they also sinned. Thus it would seem that everyone deserves physical death. As JudgeRightly said in an earlier post: "Thus, the payment for your sins in order to balance the ledger, so to speak, is death. The only thing that will balance the ledger is death. In other words, you're a dead man walking! The only reason you're not in the grave already is because God is merciful." So everyone deserves physical death, no?
Thanks for any reply,
Gary
Good point. Maybe the "list" should be edited to reflect greater clarity.
It's just common respect to stick to the OP. But I'm not sure I want any conversation with someone who hurls the epithet "liar" so easily. It would just be a big waste of time.
Thanks,
Rhema
Perhaps you should grow thicker skin, because name-calling WITH cause is allowed, even encouraged.
Here on TOL, we call a spade a spade.
Obviously you can see from Garyflet's post that there was NO cause... but thank you for playing.