A Saviour unto Israel

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beloved57

Well-known member
Not national Israel !

Many in deceived religion believe that when scripture speaks of the Servant of the Lord here that it speaks of national israel Isa 42:1-7

Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.
2 He shall not cry, nor lift up, nor cause his voice to be heard in the street.
3 A bruised reed shall he not break, and the smoking flax shall he not quench: he shall bring forth judgment unto truth.
4 He shall not fail nor be discouraged, till he have set judgment in the earth: and the isles shall wait for his law.
5 Thus saith God the Lord, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein:
6 I the Lord have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;
7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house.

Theres a host of ways to prove this is not national israel, abrahams physical descendants, but of course the deceived will not receive the proof, thats why they are deceived, God has sent them a strong delusion to believe a lie ! Its God who chooses mens delusions Isa 66:4

I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called, none did answer; when I spake, they did not hear: but they did evil before mine eyes, and chose that in which I delighted not.

Now the Servant in Isa 42:1 cant be national israel because this servant is Gods Elect Isa 42:1

Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.

Now, national israel according to the flesh, cast away by God, was not Gods elect, they werent the children of God Rom 9:8

That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

And God most certainly didnt have a soul delight in them, for He cast them away Rom 11:15

For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?

The words for casting away are strong, meaning:

apobolé: a throwing away, rejection, a casting away, rejection, a loss.

rejection, repudiation (ἀποβάλλεσθαι to throw away from oneself, cast off, repudiate):

Now would God do that to His Own Elect ? Would He do that to those His Sould delighteth in ? Of course not !
 

Interplanner

Well-known member
Not national Israel !

Many in deceived religion believe that when scripture speaks of the Servant of the Lord here that it speaks of national israel Isa 42:1-7



Theres a host of ways to prove this is not national israel, abrahams physical descendants, but of course the deceived will not receive the proof, thats why they are deceived, God has sent them a strong delusion to believe a lie ! Its God who chooses mens delusions Isa 66:4

I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called, none did answer; when I spake, they did not hear: but they did evil before mine eyes, and chose that in which I delighted not.

Now the Servant in Isa 42:1 cant be national israel because this servant is Gods Elect Isa 42:1

Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.

Now, national israel according to the flesh, cast away by God, was not Gods elect, they werent the children of God Rom 9:8

That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

And God most certainly didnt have a soul delight in them, for He cast them away Rom 11:15

For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?

The words for casting away are strong, meaning:

apobolé: a throwing away, rejection, a casting away, rejection, a loss.

rejection, repudiation (ἀποβάλλεσθαι to throw away from oneself, cast off, repudiate):

Now would God do that to His Own Elect ? Would He do that to those His Sould delighteth in ? Of course not !



And don't forget the official interp by the NT; the passage was speaking about Christ. He was made a covenant for the nations; he acted on their behalf, to give light to the nations.
 

Elia

Well-known member
Bs"d

Who is the saviour of Israel?

Jews don't reject their savior, but they have only one savior, and that is not JC but Y-H-W-H:


My Savior is Y-H-W-H:

Isaiah 43: 3: "For I am Y-H-W-H thy God, the Holy one of Israel, thy saviour."

Isaiah 43:10-11: "Before Me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me, even I, I am Y-H-W-H, and beside Me there is no saviour."

Isaiah 45:21-22: "... I Y-H-W-H, and there is no God else beside Me, a just God and a saviour, there is no saviour beside Me. Look unto Me and be you saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God and there is none else."

Hosea 13: 4: "Yet I am Y-H-W-H thy God, and thou shall know no God but Me, for there is no saviour beside Me."
 

Interplanner

Well-known member
Bs"d

Who is the saviour of Israel?

Jews don't reject their savior, but they have only one savior, and that is not JC but Y-H-W-H:


My Savior is Y-H-W-H:

Isaiah 43: 3: "For I am Y-H-W-H thy God, the Holy one of Israel, thy saviour."

Isaiah 43:10-11: "Before Me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me, even I, I am Y-H-W-H, and beside Me there is no saviour."

Isaiah 45:21-22: "... I Y-H-W-H, and there is no God else beside Me, a just God and a saviour, there is no saviour beside Me. Look unto Me and be you saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God and there is none else."

Hosea 13: 4: "Yet I am Y-H-W-H thy God, and thou shall know no God but Me, for there is no saviour beside Me."



Was Jesus of Nazareth the Messiah?
 

musterion

Well-known member
Not national Israel !

Many in deceived religion believe that when scripture speaks of the Servant of the Lord here that it speaks of national israel Isa 42:1-7

Theres a host of ways to prove this is not national israel, abrahams physical descendants, but of course the deceived will not receive the proof, thats why they are deceived, God has sent them a strong delusion to believe a lie ! Its God who chooses mens delusions Isa 66:4

I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called, none did answer; when I spake, they did not hear: but they did evil before mine eyes, and chose that in which I delighted not.

Now the Servant in Isa 42:1 cant be national israel because this servant is Gods Elect Isa 42:1

Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.

Now, national israel according to the flesh, cast away by God, was not Gods elect, they werent the children of God Rom 9:8

That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

And God most certainly didnt have a soul delight in them, for He cast them away Rom 11:15

For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?

The words for casting away are strong, meaning:

apobolé: a throwing away, rejection, a casting away, rejection, a loss.

rejection, repudiation (ἀποβάλλεσθαι to throw away from oneself, cast off, repudiate):

Now would God do that to His Own Elect ? Would He do that to those His Sould delighteth in ? Of course not !

That post is exactly what the theft by fraud of Replacement theology/Supersessionism looks like.

For most of Christian history, supersessionism has been the mainstream interpretation of the New Testament of all three major historical traditions within Christianity — Orthodox, Catholic and Protestant. The text most often quoted in favor of the supersessionist view is Hebrews 8:13: "In speaking of 'a new covenant' [Jer. 31.31-32] he has made the first one obsolete" . . .

Many Christian theologians saw the New Covenant in Christ as a replacement for the Mosaic Covenant. Historically, statements on behalf of the Roman Catholic Church have claimed its ecclesiastical structures to be a fulfillment and replacement of Jewish ecclesiastical structures (see also Jerusalem as an allegory for the Church). As recently as 1965 Vatican Council II affirmed, "the Church is the new people of God," without intending to make "Israel according to the flesh", the Jewish people, irrelevant in terms of eschatology (see "Roman Catholicism," below). Modern Protestantshold to a range of positions on the topic.
 

beameup

New member
Bs"d

Who is the saviour of Israel?

Jews don't reject their savior, but they have only one savior, and that is not JC but Y-H-W-H:


My Savior is Y-H-W-H:

Isaiah 43: 3: "For I am Y-H-W-H thy God, the Holy one of Israel, thy saviour."

Isaiah 43:10-11: "Before Me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me, even I, I am Y-H-W-H, and beside Me there is no saviour."

Isaiah 45:21-22: "... I Y-H-W-H, and there is no God else beside Me, a just God and a saviour, there is no saviour beside Me. Look unto Me and be you saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God and there is none else."

Hosea 13: 4: "Yet I am Y-H-W-H thy God, and thou shall know no God but Me, for there is no saviour beside Me."

"Israel" is a "savior" according the Jewish interpretation of Isaiah 53:
1) It pleased God to punish Israel
2) Israel made his soul an offering for sin
3) Israel shall see the travail of his soul
4) Israel shall justify many
5) Israel shall bear their iniquities
6) Israel has poured out his soul unto death
7) Israel has born the sins of many
 

beloved57

Well-known member
And don't forget the official interp by the NT; the passage was speaking about Christ. He was made a covenant for the nations; he acted on their behalf, to give light to the nations.

Yes, thats even more proof, however the deceived wont accept that proof, because they are deceived to believe a lie. Matt 12:15-18

But when Jesus knew it, he withdrew himself from thence: and great multitudes followed him, and he healed them all;


16 And charged them that they should not make him known:


17 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying,


18 Behold my servant, whom I have chosen; my beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my spirit upon him, and he shall shew judgment to the Gentiles.
 

beloved57

Well-known member
Bs"d

Who is the saviour of Israel?

Jews don't reject their savior, but they have only one savior, and that is not JC but Y-H-W-H:


My Savior is Y-H-W-H:

Isaiah 43: 3: "For I am Y-H-W-H thy God, the Holy one of Israel, thy saviour."

Isaiah 43:10-11: "Before Me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me, even I, I am Y-H-W-H, and beside Me there is no saviour."

Isaiah 45:21-22: "... I Y-H-W-H, and there is no God else beside Me, a just God and a saviour, there is no saviour beside Me. Look unto Me and be you saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God and there is none else."

Hosea 13: 4: "Yet I am Y-H-W-H thy God, and thou shall know no God but Me, for there is no saviour beside Me."

Your saviour is the golden calf isnt it ? Also who is Isa 42:1 talking about ?
 

Nanja

Well-known member
Not national Israel !

Many in deceived religion believe that when scripture speaks of the Servant of the Lord here that it speaks of national israel Isa 42:1-7



Theres a host of ways to prove this is not national israel, abrahams physical descendants, but of course the deceived will not receive the proof, thats why they are deceived, God has sent them a strong delusion to believe a lie ! Its God who chooses mens delusions Isa 66:4

I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called, none did answer; when I spake, they did not hear: but they did evil before mine eyes, and chose that in which I delighted not.

Now the Servant in Isa 42:1 cant be national israel because this servant is Gods Elect Isa 42:1

Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.

Now, national israel according to the flesh, cast away by God, was not Gods elect, they werent the children of God Rom 9:8

That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

And God most certainly didnt have a soul delight in them, for He cast them away Rom 11:15

For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?

The words for casting away are strong, meaning:

apobolé: a throwing away, rejection, a casting away, rejection, a loss.

rejection, repudiation (ἀποβάλλεσθαι to throw away from oneself, cast off, repudiate):

Now would God do that to His Own Elect ? Would He do that to those His Sould delighteth in ? Of course not !


Amen to this very edifying teaching revealing the true Israel of God!

Jesus' Election Is. 42:1 is the election of His Body chosen In Him Eph. 1:4 as well.
So when Christ was made God's Elect in eternity, He was chosen as the Head of His Body, the Church.

Col. 1:18
And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

Is. 45:17
But Israel shall be saved in the LORD with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.

The Israel that shall be Saved is the Seed of Christ, jew and gentile alike.

Gal. 3:16
Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
 

Elia

Well-known member
Not national Israel !

Many in deceived religion believe that when scripture speaks of the Servant of the Lord here that it speaks of national israel Isa 42:1-7

Bs"d


The strongest proof for the servant being the people of Israel is Isaiah 42. This is also claimed by the NT as a messianic prophecy, see Matthew 12:16-21; "And charged them that they should not make him known: That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying, Behold my servant, whom I have chosen; my beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my spirit upon him, and he shall shew judgment to the Gentiles. He shall not strive, nor cry; neither shall any man hear his voice in the streets. A bruised reed shall he not break, and smoking flax shall he not quench, till he send forth judgment unto victory. And in his name shall the Gentiles trust."

This is a quote from Isaiah 42, applied by the NT to JC. Now read here the whole chapter of Isaiah 42 and see that it speaks all the time about the servant of God, see who is that servant of God, and see that it does not speak about the messiah:

"Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles. He shall not cry, nor lift up, nor cause his voice to be heard in the street. A bruised reed shall he not break, and the smoking flax shall he not quench: he shall bring forth judgment unto truth. He shall not fail nor be discouraged, till he have set judgment in the earth: and the isles shall wait for his law. Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein: I Y-H-W-H have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles; To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house. I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images. Behold, the former things are come to pass, and new things do I declare: before they spring forth I tell you of them. Sing unto Y-H-W-H a new song, and his praise from the end of the earth, ye that go down to the sea, and all that is therein; the isles, and the inhabitants thereof. Let the wilderness and the cities thereof lift up their voice, the villages that Kedar doth inhabit: let the inhabitants of the rock sing, let them shout from the top of the mountains. Let them give glory unto Y-H-W-H, and declare his praise in the islands. Y-H-W-H shall go forth as a mighty man, he shall stir up jealousy like a man of war: he shall cry, yea, roar; he shall prevail against his enemies. I have long time holden my peace; I have been still, and refrained myself: now will I cry like a travailing woman; I will destroy and devour at once. I will make waste mountains and hills, and dry up all their herbs; and I will make the rivers islands, and I will dry up the pools. And I will bring the blind by a way that they knew not; I will lead them in paths that they have not known: I will make darkness light before them, and crooked things straight. These things will I do unto them, and not forsake them. They shall be turned back, they shall be greatly ashamed, that trust in graven images, that say to the molten images, Ye are our gods. Hear, ye deaf; and look, ye blind, that ye may see. Who is blind, but my servant? or deaf, as my messenger that I sent? who is blind as he that is perfect, and blind as the LORD's servant? Seeing many things, but thou observest not; opening the ears, but he heareth not.

Y-H-W-H is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable. But this is a people robbed and spoiled; they are all of them snared in holes, and they are hid in prison houses: they are for a prey, and none delivereth; for a spoil, and none saith, Restore. Who among you will give ear to this? who will hearken and hear for the time to come? Who gave Jacob for a spoil, and Israel to the robbers? did not Y-H-W-H, he against whom we have sinned? for they would not walk in his ways, neither were they obedient unto his law. Therefore he hath poured upon him the fury of his anger, and the strength of battle: and it hath set him on fire round about, yet he knew not; and it burned him, yet he laid it not to heart."


As you see, saying JC was the servant doesn't fit very well: "Hear, ye deaf; and look, ye blind, that ye may see. Who is blind, but my servant? or deaf, as my messenger that I sent? who is blind as he that is perfect, and blind as Y-H-W-H's servant? Seeing many things, but thou observest not; opening the ears, but he heareth not."

According to the NT Jesus was not blind and deaf. Conclusion: JC is not the servant. Conclusion: The NT is based upon false premises.

It is here literally spelled out who is the servant that Isaiah talks about: "Who is blind, but my servant? or deaf, as my messenger that I sent? who is blind as he that is perfect, and blind as the LORD's servant? Seeing many things, but thou observest not; opening the ears, but he heareth not. Y-H-W-H is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable. But this is a people robbed and spoiled; they are all of them snared in holes, and they are hid in prison houses: they are for a prey, and none delivereth; for a spoil, and none saith, Restore. Who among you will give ear to this? who will hearken and hear for the time to come? Who gave Jacob for a spoil, and Israel to the robbers?"

Where it says "But this is a people", (some translations say: But it is a people), there it says in the original Hebrew: we-hu am bazuz. That is literally translated: "And HE is a robbed nation/people." The 'he' refers to the servant in the previous verse. The following verses identify that nation as the people of Israel: "Who gave Jacob for a spoil, and Israel to the robbers?"

We see here that in Isaiah 41:8-9, that is only twenty verses before the beginning of chapter 42 about which the NT claimes that the servant is the messiah, that there the servant is clearly and undisputed ISRAEL: "But you, Israel, my servant, Jacob, whom I have chosen, the offspring of Abraham, my friend; you whom I took from the ends of the earth, and called from its farthest corners, saying to you: You are my servant, I have chosen you and not cast you off"

We also see that in Isaiah 42:18-25, only fourteen verses after the beginning of chapter 42 about which the NT claimes that the servant is the messiah, that there the servant is clearly and undisputed ISRAEL.

So we see that the Christian claim is based upon nothing, and goes against the context and against the plain text of Isaiah.


Now, national israel according to the flesh, cast away by God,

The Christian churches believe in the theory that G.d rejected His chosen people, and that instead the Christians are the new spiritual Israel. However, G.d says clearly in the Holy Torah that He will never break his covenant with the Jewish people, even not when they stray away from Him. When the Jews go astray G.d will punish them. (Leviticus 26:14-17) And if they then still don't listen, G.d will punish them seven times harder. (idem:18-22) And if they then still don't listen, G.d will punish them another seven times harder. (idem:23-24) And if they then still refuse to turn back to G.d, He will punish them another seven times harder. (idem:27-28) But despite all this, G.d will not break His covenant with the Jewish people: Leviticus 26:44-45; "And yet for all that, I will not cast them away, neither will I abhor them, to destroy them utterly, and to break My covenant with them: For I am Y-H-W-H their G.d. But I will for their sakes remember the covenant of their ancestors, whom I brought forth out of the land of Egypt in the sight of the heathen, that I might be their G.d: I am Y-H-W-H."

"Considerest thou not what this people have spoken, saying: The two families that the LORD hath chosen, He has even cast them of? Thus they have despised My people, that they should no more be a nation before them. Thus saith the LORD: If My covenant be not with day and night, and if I have not appointed the ordinances of heaven and earth; Then will I cast away the seed of Jacob and David my servant, so that I will not take any of his seed to be rulers over the seed of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob: for I will cause their captivety to return and have mercy on them." Jeremiah 33:24-26

If G.d rejected the Jews, why then is He now fulfilling the prophecies that He will gather in the Jews and bring them back to their land? "Fear not, for I am with thee, I will bring thy seed from the east, and gather thee from the west. I will say to the north; give up, and to the south; keep not back: Bring my sons from far, and My daughters from the ends of the earth." Isaiah 43:5+6 The whole world witnesses this miracle, how after almost 2000 years of dispersion over the whole earth the Jews are returning to Israel. In just 50 years a state has been built from scratch, the Hebrew language has been revived. Is there any precedent in history for this? Is there any other people that was dispersed throughout the whole world for almost 2000 years that held on to their identity and their religion?---Surely we see here the hand of G.d

was not Gods elect,

"For Jacob My servant’s sake, And Israel My elect, I have even called you by your name; I have named you, though you have not known Me."
Isaiah 45:4

they werent the children of God Rom 9:8

"Then you shall say to Pharaoh, ‘Thus says the Lord: “Israel is My son, My firstborn. 23 So I say to you, let My son go that he may serve Me. But if you refuse to let him go, indeed I will kill your son, your firstborn.”
Ex 4

That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

And God most certainly didnt have a soul delight in them, for He cast them away Rom 11:15

The Christian churches believe in the theory that G.d rejected His chosen people, and that instead the Christians are the new spiritual Israel. However, G.d says clearly in the Holy Torah that He will never break his covenant with the Jewish people, even not when they stray away from Him. When the Jews go astray G.d will punish them. (Leviticus 26:14-17) And if they then still don't listen, G.d will punish them seven times harder. (idem:18-22) And if they then still don't listen, G.d will punish them another seven times harder. (idem:23-24) And if they then still refuse to turn back to G.d, He will punish them another seven times harder. (idem:27-28) But despite all this, G.d will not break His covenant with the Jewish people: Leviticus 26:44-45; "And yet for all that, I will not cast them away, neither will I abhor them, to destroy them utterly, and to break My covenant with them: For I am Y-H-W-H their G.d. But I will for their sakes remember the covenant of their ancestors, whom I brought forth out of the land of Egypt in the sight of the heathen, that I might be their G.d: I am Y-H-W-H."

"Considerest thou not what this people have spoken, saying: The two families that the LORD hath chosen, He has even cast them of? Thus they have despised My people, that they should no more be a nation before them. Thus saith the LORD: If My covenant be not with day and night, and if I have not appointed the ordinances of heaven and earth; Then will I cast away the seed of Jacob and David my servant, so that I will not take any of his seed to be rulers over the seed of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob: for I will cause their captivety to return and have mercy on them." Jeremiah 33:24-26

If G.d rejected the Jews, why then is He now fulfilling the prophecies that He will gather in the Jews and bring them back to their land? "Fear not, for I am with thee, I will bring thy seed from the east, and gather thee from the west. I will say to the north; give up, and to the south; keep not back: Bring my sons from far, and My daughters from the ends of the earth." Isaiah 43:5+6 The whole world witnesses this miracle, how after almost 2000 years of dispersion over the whole earth the Jews are returning to Israel. In just 50 years a state has been built from scratch, the Hebrew language has been revived. Is there any precedent in history for this? Is there any other people that was dispersed throughout the whole world for almost 2000 years that held on to their identity and their religion?---Surely we see here the hand of G.d
 

beloved57

Well-known member
Bs"d


The strongest proof for the servant being the people of Israel is Isaiah 42. This is also claimed by the NT as a messianic prophecy, see Matthew 12:16-21; "And charged them that they should not make him known: That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying, Behold my servant, whom I have chosen; my beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my spirit upon him, and he shall shew judgment to the Gentiles. He shall not strive, nor cry; neither shall any man hear his voice in the streets. A bruised reed shall he not break, and smoking flax shall he not quench, till he send forth judgment unto victory. And in his name shall the Gentiles trust."

This is a quote from Isaiah 42, applied by the NT to JC. Now read here the whole chapter of Isaiah 42 and see that it speaks all the time about the servant of God, see who is that servant of God, and see that it does not speak about the messiah:

"Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles. He shall not cry, nor lift up, nor cause his voice to be heard in the street. A bruised reed shall he not break, and the smoking flax shall he not quench: he shall bring forth judgment unto truth. He shall not fail nor be discouraged, till he have set judgment in the earth: and the isles shall wait for his law. Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein: I Y-H-W-H have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles; To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house. I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images. Behold, the former things are come to pass, and new things do I declare: before they spring forth I tell you of them. Sing unto Y-H-W-H a new song, and his praise from the end of the earth, ye that go down to the sea, and all that is therein; the isles, and the inhabitants thereof. Let the wilderness and the cities thereof lift up their voice, the villages that Kedar doth inhabit: let the inhabitants of the rock sing, let them shout from the top of the mountains. Let them give glory unto Y-H-W-H, and declare his praise in the islands. Y-H-W-H shall go forth as a mighty man, he shall stir up jealousy like a man of war: he shall cry, yea, roar; he shall prevail against his enemies. I have long time holden my peace; I have been still, and refrained myself: now will I cry like a travailing woman; I will destroy and devour at once. I will make waste mountains and hills, and dry up all their herbs; and I will make the rivers islands, and I will dry up the pools. And I will bring the blind by a way that they knew not; I will lead them in paths that they have not known: I will make darkness light before them, and crooked things straight. These things will I do unto them, and not forsake them. They shall be turned back, they shall be greatly ashamed, that trust in graven images, that say to the molten images, Ye are our gods. Hear, ye deaf; and look, ye blind, that ye may see. Who is blind, but my servant? or deaf, as my messenger that I sent? who is blind as he that is perfect, and blind as the LORD's servant? Seeing many things, but thou observest not; opening the ears, but he heareth not.

Y-H-W-H is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable. But this is a people robbed and spoiled; they are all of them snared in holes, and they are hid in prison houses: they are for a prey, and none delivereth; for a spoil, and none saith, Restore. Who among you will give ear to this? who will hearken and hear for the time to come? Who gave Jacob for a spoil, and Israel to the robbers? did not Y-H-W-H, he against whom we have sinned? for they would not walk in his ways, neither were they obedient unto his law. Therefore he hath poured upon him the fury of his anger, and the strength of battle: and it hath set him on fire round about, yet he knew not; and it burned him, yet he laid it not to heart."


As you see, saying JC was the servant doesn't fit very well: "Hear, ye deaf; and look, ye blind, that ye may see. Who is blind, but my servant? or deaf, as my messenger that I sent? who is blind as he that is perfect, and blind as Y-H-W-H's servant? Seeing many things, but thou observest not; opening the ears, but he heareth not."

According to the NT Jesus was not blind and deaf. Conclusion: JC is not the servant. Conclusion: The NT is based upon false premises.

It is here literally spelled out who is the servant that Isaiah talks about: "Who is blind, but my servant? or deaf, as my messenger that I sent? who is blind as he that is perfect, and blind as the LORD's servant? Seeing many things, but thou observest not; opening the ears, but he heareth not. Y-H-W-H is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable. But this is a people robbed and spoiled; they are all of them snared in holes, and they are hid in prison houses: they are for a prey, and none delivereth; for a spoil, and none saith, Restore. Who among you will give ear to this? who will hearken and hear for the time to come? Who gave Jacob for a spoil, and Israel to the robbers?"

Where it says "But this is a people", (some translations say: But it is a people), there it says in the original Hebrew: we-hu am bazuz. That is literally translated: "And HE is a robbed nation/people." The 'he' refers to the servant in the previous verse. The following verses identify that nation as the people of Israel: "Who gave Jacob for a spoil, and Israel to the robbers?"

We see here that in Isaiah 41:8-9, that is only twenty verses before the beginning of chapter 42 about which the NT claimes that the servant is the messiah, that there the servant is clearly and undisputed ISRAEL: "But you, Israel, my servant, Jacob, whom I have chosen, the offspring of Abraham, my friend; you whom I took from the ends of the earth, and called from its farthest corners, saying to you: You are my servant, I have chosen you and not cast you off"

We also see that in Isaiah 42:18-25, only fourteen verses after the beginning of chapter 42 about which the NT claimes that the servant is the messiah, that there the servant is clearly and undisputed ISRAEL.

So we see that the Christian claim is based upon nothing, and goes against the context and against the plain text of Isaiah.




The Christian churches believe in the theory that G.d rejected His chosen people, and that instead the Christians are the new spiritual Israel. However, G.d says clearly in the Holy Torah that He will never break his covenant with the Jewish people, even not when they stray away from Him. When the Jews go astray G.d will punish them. (Leviticus 26:14-17) And if they then still don't listen, G.d will punish them seven times harder. (idem:18-22) And if they then still don't listen, G.d will punish them another seven times harder. (idem:23-24) And if they then still refuse to turn back to G.d, He will punish them another seven times harder. (idem:27-28) But despite all this, G.d will not break His covenant with the Jewish people: Leviticus 26:44-45; "And yet for all that, I will not cast them away, neither will I abhor them, to destroy them utterly, and to break My covenant with them: For I am Y-H-W-H their G.d. But I will for their sakes remember the covenant of their ancestors, whom I brought forth out of the land of Egypt in the sight of the heathen, that I might be their G.d: I am Y-H-W-H."

"Considerest thou not what this people have spoken, saying: The two families that the LORD hath chosen, He has even cast them of? Thus they have despised My people, that they should no more be a nation before them. Thus saith the LORD: If My covenant be not with day and night, and if I have not appointed the ordinances of heaven and earth; Then will I cast away the seed of Jacob and David my servant, so that I will not take any of his seed to be rulers over the seed of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob: for I will cause their captivety to return and have mercy on them." Jeremiah 33:24-26

If G.d rejected the Jews, why then is He now fulfilling the prophecies that He will gather in the Jews and bring them back to their land? "Fear not, for I am with thee, I will bring thy seed from the east, and gather thee from the west. I will say to the north; give up, and to the south; keep not back: Bring my sons from far, and My daughters from the ends of the earth." Isaiah 43:5+6 The whole world witnesses this miracle, how after almost 2000 years of dispersion over the whole earth the Jews are returning to Israel. In just 50 years a state has been built from scratch, the Hebrew language has been revived. Is there any precedent in history for this? Is there any other people that was dispersed throughout the whole world for almost 2000 years that held on to their identity and their religion?---Surely we see here the hand of G.d



"For Jacob My servant’s sake, And Israel My elect, I have even called you by your name; I have named you, though you have not known Me."
Isaiah 45:4



"Then you shall say to Pharaoh, ‘Thus says the Lord: “Israel is My son, My firstborn. 23 So I say to you, let My son go that he may serve Me. But if you refuse to let him go, indeed I will kill your son, your firstborn.”
Ex 4



The Christian churches believe in the theory that G.d rejected His chosen people, and that instead the Christians are the new spiritual Israel. However, G.d says clearly in the Holy Torah that He will never break his covenant with the Jewish people, even not when they stray away from Him. When the Jews go astray G.d will punish them. (Leviticus 26:14-17) And if they then still don't listen, G.d will punish them seven times harder. (idem:18-22) And if they then still don't listen, G.d will punish them another seven times harder. (idem:23-24) And if they then still refuse to turn back to G.d, He will punish them another seven times harder. (idem:27-28) But despite all this, G.d will not break His covenant with the Jewish people: Leviticus 26:44-45; "And yet for all that, I will not cast them away, neither will I abhor them, to destroy them utterly, and to break My covenant with them: For I am Y-H-W-H their G.d. But I will for their sakes remember the covenant of their ancestors, whom I brought forth out of the land of Egypt in the sight of the heathen, that I might be their G.d: I am Y-H-W-H."

"Considerest thou not what this people have spoken, saying: The two families that the LORD hath chosen, He has even cast them of? Thus they have despised My people, that they should no more be a nation before them. Thus saith the LORD: If My covenant be not with day and night, and if I have not appointed the ordinances of heaven and earth; Then will I cast away the seed of Jacob and David my servant, so that I will not take any of his seed to be rulers over the seed of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob: for I will cause their captivety to return and have mercy on them." Jeremiah 33:24-26

If G.d rejected the Jews, why then is He now fulfilling the prophecies that He will gather in the Jews and bring them back to their land? "Fear not, for I am with thee, I will bring thy seed from the east, and gather thee from the west. I will say to the north; give up, and to the south; keep not back: Bring my sons from far, and My daughters from the ends of the earth." Isaiah 43:5+6 The whole world witnesses this miracle, how after almost 2000 years of dispersion over the whole earth the Jews are returning to Israel. In just 50 years a state has been built from scratch, the Hebrew language has been revived. Is there any precedent in history for this? Is there any other people that was dispersed throughout the whole world for almost 2000 years that held on to their identity and their religion?---Surely we see here the hand of G.d

Abrahams Physical descendants Israel according to the flesh are not the children of God Rom 9:8 so they can't be Elect or the Chosen People of God. Also God never cast away His Elect Chosen People, but the physical nation of Israel God cast them away Rom 11:15

15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?
 

beloved57

Well-known member
Folks, Isa 43:5-6

Fear not: for I am with thee: I will bring thy seed from the east, and gather thee from the west;

6 I will say to the north, Give up; and to the south, Keep not back: bring my sons from far, and my daughters from the ends of the earth

That scripture isn't speaking of israel Abrahams descendants according to the flesh, because they are not the children of God,Rom 9:8 wherein the scripture says here that these are Gods sons and daughters! Hence this applies to Abrahams Spiritual Children in Christ from all nations, the Church, the Body of Christ!
 

Evil.Eye.<(I)>

BANNED
Banned
Bs"d


The strongest proof for the servant being the people of Israel is Isaiah 42. This is also claimed by the NT as a messianic prophecy, see Matthew 12:16-21; "And charged them that they should not make him known: That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying, Behold my servant, whom I have chosen; my beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my spirit upon him, and he shall shew judgment to the Gentiles. He shall not strive, nor cry; neither shall any man hear his voice in the streets. A bruised reed shall he not break, and smoking flax shall he not quench, till he send forth judgment unto victory. And in his name shall the Gentiles trust."

This is a quote from Isaiah 42, applied by the NT to JC. Now read here the whole chapter of Isaiah 42 and see that it speaks all the time about the servant of God, see who is that servant of God, and see that it does not speak about the messiah:

"Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles. He shall not cry, nor lift up, nor cause his voice to be heard in the street. A bruised reed shall he not break, and the smoking flax shall he not quench: he shall bring forth judgment unto truth. He shall not fail nor be discouraged, till he have set judgment in the earth: and the isles shall wait for his law. Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein: I Y-H-W-H have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles; To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house. I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images. Behold, the former things are come to pass, and new things do I declare: before they spring forth I tell you of them. Sing unto Y-H-W-H a new song, and his praise from the end of the earth, ye that go down to the sea, and all that is therein; the isles, and the inhabitants thereof. Let the wilderness and the cities thereof lift up their voice, the villages that Kedar doth inhabit: let the inhabitants of the rock sing, let them shout from the top of the mountains. Let them give glory unto Y-H-W-H, and declare his praise in the islands. Y-H-W-H shall go forth as a mighty man, he shall stir up jealousy like a man of war: he shall cry, yea, roar; he shall prevail against his enemies. I have long time holden my peace; I have been still, and refrained myself: now will I cry like a travailing woman; I will destroy and devour at once. I will make waste mountains and hills, and dry up all their herbs; and I will make the rivers islands, and I will dry up the pools. And I will bring the blind by a way that they knew not; I will lead them in paths that they have not known: I will make darkness light before them, and crooked things straight. These things will I do unto them, and not forsake them. They shall be turned back, they shall be greatly ashamed, that trust in graven images, that say to the molten images, Ye are our gods. Hear, ye deaf; and look, ye blind, that ye may see. Who is blind, but my servant? or deaf, as my messenger that I sent? who is blind as he that is perfect, and blind as the LORD's servant? Seeing many things, but thou observest not; opening the ears, but he heareth not.

Y-H-W-H is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable. But this is a people robbed and spoiled; they are all of them snared in holes, and they are hid in prison houses: they are for a prey, and none delivereth; for a spoil, and none saith, Restore. Who among you will give ear to this? who will hearken and hear for the time to come? Who gave Jacob for a spoil, and Israel to the robbers? did not Y-H-W-H, he against whom we have sinned? for they would not walk in his ways, neither were they obedient unto his law. Therefore he hath poured upon him the fury of his anger, and the strength of battle: and it hath set him on fire round about, yet he knew not; and it burned him, yet he laid it not to heart."


As you see, saying JC was the servant doesn't fit very well: "Hear, ye deaf; and look, ye blind, that ye may see. Who is blind, but my servant? or deaf, as my messenger that I sent? who is blind as he that is perfect, and blind as Y-H-W-H's servant? Seeing many things, but thou observest not; opening the ears, but he heareth not."

According to the NT Jesus was not blind and deaf. Conclusion: JC is not the servant. Conclusion: The NT is based upon false premises.

It is here literally spelled out who is the servant that Isaiah talks about: "Who is blind, but my servant? or deaf, as my messenger that I sent? who is blind as he that is perfect, and blind as the LORD's servant? Seeing many things, but thou observest not; opening the ears, but he heareth not. Y-H-W-H is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable. But this is a people robbed and spoiled; they are all of them snared in holes, and they are hid in prison houses: they are for a prey, and none delivereth; for a spoil, and none saith, Restore. Who among you will give ear to this? who will hearken and hear for the time to come? Who gave Jacob for a spoil, and Israel to the robbers?"

Where it says "But this is a people", (some translations say: But it is a people), there it says in the original Hebrew: we-hu am bazuz. That is literally translated: "And HE is a robbed nation/people." The 'he' refers to the servant in the previous verse. The following verses identify that nation as the people of Israel: "Who gave Jacob for a spoil, and Israel to the robbers?"

We see here that in Isaiah 41:8-9, that is only twenty verses before the beginning of chapter 42 about which the NT claimes that the servant is the messiah, that there the servant is clearly and undisputed ISRAEL: "But you, Israel, my servant, Jacob, whom I have chosen, the offspring of Abraham, my friend; you whom I took from the ends of the earth, and called from its farthest corners, saying to you: You are my servant, I have chosen you and not cast you off"

We also see that in Isaiah 42:18-25, only fourteen verses after the beginning of chapter 42 about which the NT claimes that the servant is the messiah, that there the servant is clearly and undisputed ISRAEL.

So we see that the Christian claim is based upon nothing, and goes against the context and against the plain text of Isaiah.




The Christian churches believe in the theory that G.d rejected His chosen people, and that instead the Christians are the new spiritual Israel. However, G.d says clearly in the Holy Torah that He will never break his covenant with the Jewish people, even not when they stray away from Him. When the Jews go astray G.d will punish them. (Leviticus 26:14-17) And if they then still don't listen, G.d will punish them seven times harder. (idem:18-22) And if they then still don't listen, G.d will punish them another seven times harder. (idem:23-24) And if they then still refuse to turn back to G.d, He will punish them another seven times harder. (idem:27-28) But despite all this, G.d will not break His covenant with the Jewish people: Leviticus 26:44-45; "And yet for all that, I will not cast them away, neither will I abhor them, to destroy them utterly, and to break My covenant with them: For I am Y-H-W-H their G.d. But I will for their sakes remember the covenant of their ancestors, whom I brought forth out of the land of Egypt in the sight of the heathen, that I might be their G.d: I am Y-H-W-H."

"Considerest thou not what this people have spoken, saying: The two families that the LORD hath chosen, He has even cast them of? Thus they have despised My people, that they should no more be a nation before them. Thus saith the LORD: If My covenant be not with day and night, and if I have not appointed the ordinances of heaven and earth; Then will I cast away the seed of Jacob and David my servant, so that I will not take any of his seed to be rulers over the seed of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob: for I will cause their captivety to return and have mercy on them." Jeremiah 33:24-26

If G.d rejected the Jews, why then is He now fulfilling the prophecies that He will gather in the Jews and bring them back to their land? "Fear not, for I am with thee, I will bring thy seed from the east, and gather thee from the west. I will say to the north; give up, and to the south; keep not back: Bring my sons from far, and My daughters from the ends of the earth." Isaiah 43:5+6 The whole world witnesses this miracle, how after almost 2000 years of dispersion over the whole earth the Jews are returning to Israel. In just 50 years a state has been built from scratch, the Hebrew language has been revived. Is there any precedent in history for this? Is there any other people that was dispersed throughout the whole world for almost 2000 years that held on to their identity and their religion?---Surely we see here the hand of G.d



"For Jacob My servant’s sake, And Israel My elect, I have even called you by your name; I have named you, though you have not known Me."
Isaiah 45:4



"Then you shall say to Pharaoh, ‘Thus says the Lord: “Israel is My son, My firstborn. 23 So I say to you, let My son go that he may serve Me. But if you refuse to let him go, indeed I will kill your son, your firstborn.”
Ex 4



The Christian churches believe in the theory that G.d rejected His chosen people, and that instead the Christians are the new spiritual Israel. However, G.d says clearly in the Holy Torah that He will never break his covenant with the Jewish people, even not when they stray away from Him. When the Jews go astray G.d will punish them. (Leviticus 26:14-17) And if they then still don't listen, G.d will punish them seven times harder. (idem:18-22) And if they then still don't listen, G.d will punish them another seven times harder. (idem:23-24) And if they then still refuse to turn back to G.d, He will punish them another seven times harder. (idem:27-28) But despite all this, G.d will not break His covenant with the Jewish people: Leviticus 26:44-45; "And yet for all that, I will not cast them away, neither will I abhor them, to destroy them utterly, and to break My covenant with them: For I am Y-H-W-H their G.d. But I will for their sakes remember the covenant of their ancestors, whom I brought forth out of the land of Egypt in the sight of the heathen, that I might be their G.d: I am Y-H-W-H."

"Considerest thou not what this people have spoken, saying: The two families that the LORD hath chosen, He has even cast them of? Thus they have despised My people, that they should no more be a nation before them. Thus saith the LORD: If My covenant be not with day and night, and if I have not appointed the ordinances of heaven and earth; Then will I cast away the seed of Jacob and David my servant, so that I will not take any of his seed to be rulers over the seed of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob: for I will cause their captivety to return and have mercy on them." Jeremiah 33:24-26

If G.d rejected the Jews, why then is He now fulfilling the prophecies that He will gather in the Jews and bring them back to their land? "Fear not, for I am with thee, I will bring thy seed from the east, and gather thee from the west. I will say to the north; give up, and to the south; keep not back: Bring my sons from far, and My daughters from the ends of the earth." Isaiah 43:5+6 The whole world witnesses this miracle, how after almost 2000 years of dispersion over the whole earth the Jews are returning to Israel. In just 50 years a state has been built from scratch, the Hebrew language has been revived. Is there any precedent in history for this? Is there any other people that was dispersed throughout the whole world for almost 2000 years that held on to their identity and their religion?---Surely we see here the hand of G.d

My Jewish friend,

I know you don't approve of Christianity, but I want to give you something to shut this Calvinist's anti-Semite rhetoric down.

Acts 1:10-12 ties our understanding of Christ to Zechariah 14:4....

This links our understanding of the Messiahs return to ALL of your land promises and Literal Israel Prophecy in the Tanakh. Our books of New Testament prophecy and Jesus' prophetic words in Matthew assert this as well.

Joel3:2 in conjunction asserts that Messiah is angered by the division of Israel. National Israel.

Romans 11:25-36 further shows that B57 is in scriptural denial with her prideful assertion that literal Israel doesn't matter anymore. The blood of Jacob is referenced and Paul warns Christians to not be prideful to Jews that reject the idea that our understanding of Messiah is correct.

This destroys what B57 is blathering about.

In all Love,

Evil Eye

Please feel free to drop my name if you see this garbage replacement theology. I will share more if necessary.
 

Elia

Well-known member
Folks, Isa 43:5-6

Fear not: for I am with thee: I will bring thy seed from the east, and gather thee from the west;

6 I will say to the north, Give up; and to the south, Keep not back: bring my sons from far, and my daughters from the ends of the earth

That scripture isn't speaking of israel Abrahams descendants according to the flesh, because they are not the children of God,Rom 9:8 wherein the scripture says here that these are Gods sons and daughters! Hence this applies to Abrahams Spiritual Children in Christ from all nations, the Church, the Body of Christ!

Bs"d

Isaiah 43

"But now, thus says the Lord, who created you, O Jacob,
And He who formed you, O Israel:
“Fear not, for I have redeemed you;
I have called you by your name;
You are Mine.
2
When you pass through the waters, I will be with you;
And through the rivers, they shall not overflow you.
When you walk through the fire, you shall not be burned,
Nor shall the flame scorch you.
3
For I am Y-H-W-H
your God,
The Holy One of Israel, your Savior;
I gave Egypt for your ransom,
Ethiopia and Seba in your place.
4
Since you were precious in My sight,
You have been honored,
And I have loved you;
Therefore I will give men for you,
And people for your life.
5
Fear not, for I am with you;
I will bring your descendants from the east,
And gather you from the west;
6
I will say to the north, ‘Give them up!’
And to the south, ‘Do not keep them back!’
Bring My sons from afar,
And My daughters from the ends of the earth"

How can anybody with two working brain cells say this does not speak about ISRAEL?? :confused:
 

God's Truth

New member
My Jewish friend,

I know you don't approve of Christianity, but I want to give you something to shut this Calvinist's anti-Semite rhetoric down.

Acts 1:10-12 ties our understanding of Christ to Zechariah 14:4....

This links our understanding of the Messiahs return to ALL of your land promises and Literal Israel Prophecy in the Tanakh. Our books of New Testament prophecy and Jesus' prophetic words in Matthew assert this as well.

Joel3:2 in conjunction asserts that Messiah is angered by the division of Israel. National Israel.

Romans 11:25-36 further shows that B57 is in scriptural denial with her prideful assertion that literal Israel doesn't matter anymore. The blood of Jacob is referenced and Paul warns Christians to not be prideful to Jews that reject the idea that our understanding of Messiah is correct.

This destroys what B57 is blathering about.

In all Love,

Evil Eye

Please feel free to drop my name if you see this garbage replacement theology. I will share more if necessary.

Zechariah 8
8 The word of the LORD Almighty came to me.
2 This is what the LORD Almighty says: “I am very jealous for Zion; I am burning with jealousy for her.”
3 This is what the LORD says: “I will return to Zion and dwell in Jerusalem. Then Jerusalem will be called the Faithful City, and the mountain of the LORD Almighty will be called the Holy Mountain.”
4 This is what the LORD Almighty says: “Once again men and women of ripe old age will sit in the streets of Jerusalem, each of them with cane in hand because of their age. 5 The city streets will be filled with boys and girls playing there.”
6 This is what the LORD Almighty says: “It may seem marvelous to the remnant of this people at that time, but will it seem marvelous to me?” declares the LORD Almighty.
7 This is what the LORD Almighty says: “I will save my people from the countries of the east and the west. 8 I will bring them back to live in Jerusalem; they will be my people, and I will be faithful and righteous to them as their God.”

In Zechariah 8, we see Zechariah’s prophecy is about the time Israel came from Babylonian captivity. In Zechariah 14, we see that Zechariah then prophecies about the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD.

The only Jerusalem that God will live in will be the Jerusalem from heaven on the NEW EARTH.

Those who are saved are being built into this city in heaven.


1 Peter 2:5 you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.

Revelation 3:12 The one who is victorious I will make a pillar in the temple of my God. Never again will they leave it. I will write on them the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which is coming down out of heaven from my God; and I will also write on them my new name.

Revelation 21:21 I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband.

Hebrews 11:10 For he was looking forward to the city with foundations, whose architect and builder is God.

Hebrews 11:16
Instead, they were longing for a better country--a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared a city for them.


When we come to Jesus to be saved, we have actually come to Mount Zion, to the heavenly Jerusalem.

Hebrews 12:22
But you have come to Mount Zion, to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem. You have come to thousands upon thousands of angels in joyful assembly,


Did you see from those scriptures that Mount Zion is in heaven and that is where the Holy City is the New Jerusalem?
 

God's Truth

New member
This links our understanding of the Messiahs return to ALL of your land promises and Literal Israel Prophecy in the Tanakh.

The Physical Land aspect of the Abrahamic Covenant has been fulfilled already, scripture confirms it here Joshua 23:14

14And, behold, this day I am going the way of all the earth: and ye know in all your hearts and in all your souls, that not one thing hath failed of all the good things which the LORD your God spake concerning you; all are come to pass unto you, and not one thing hath failed thereof.

Josh 21:43-45

43And the LORD gave unto Israel all the land which he sware to give unto their fathers; and they possessed it, and dwelt therein.

44And the LORD gave them rest round about, according to all that he sware unto their fathers: and there stood not a man of all their enemies before them; the LORD delivered all their enemies into their hand.

45There failed not ought of any good thing which the LORD had spoken unto the house of Israel; all came to pass.

Neh 9:8

8And foundest his heart faithful before thee, and madest a covenant with him to give the land of the Canaanites, the Hittites, the Amorites, and the Perizzites, and the Jebusites, and the Girgashites, to give it, I say, to his seed, and hast performed thy words; for thou art righteous:

The land promises has been fulfilled. The anti type fulfillment is yet to be fulfilled with the glorification of the Church all of Abraham's Spiritual Seed by faith in God through Jesus Christ. Gen 17:5-8

5Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.

6And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee.

7And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.

8And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.
 

God's Truth

New member
Jeremiah 18:1-10 ...the vessel that he was making of clay was spoiled in the hand of the potter; so he remade it into another vessel, as it pleased the potter to make... Can I not, O house of Israel, deal with you as this potter does? declares the LORD. Behold, like the clay in the potter's hand, so are you in My hand, O house of Israel...Or at another moment I might speak concerning a nation or concerning a kingdom to build up or to plant it; if it does evil in My sight by not obeying My voice, then I will think better of the good with which I had promised to bless it.

Jeremiah 19:10-11 Then you are to break the jar in the sight of the men who accompany you and say to them, `Thus says the LORD of hosts, Just so shall I break this people and this city, even as one breaks a potter's vessel, which cannot again be repaired...

Isaiah 10:15
Is the axe to boast itself over the one who chops with it? Is the saw to exalt itself over the one who wields it? That would be like a club wielding those who lift it, Or like a rod lifting him who is not wood.

Isaiah 45:9
"Woe to the one who quarrels with his Maker-- An earthenware vessel among the vessels of earth! Will the clay say to the potter, 'What are you doing?' Or the thing you are making say, 'He has no hands '?

Jeremiah 18:6
"Can I not, O house of Israel, deal with you as this potter does?" declares the LORD. "Behold, like the clay in the potter's hand, so are you in My hand, O house of Israel.

Romans 9:20
But who are you, O man, to talk back to God? Shall what is formed say to Him who formed it, "Why have you made me like this?"

Romans 9:22
What if God, intending to show His wrath and make His power known, bore with great patience the vessels of His wrath, prepared for destruction?



The Jews were God's people, they were in His Hands, but while they were in His Hands they did evil. So we can see that we have to obey God to remain in His Love. When Jesus walked the earth, the remnant of the Jews were saved and the rest were cut off.
 

beloved57

Well-known member
Bs"d

Isaiah 43

"But now, thus says the Lord, who created you, O Jacob,
And He who formed you, O Israel:
“Fear not, for I have redeemed you;
I have called you by your name;
You are Mine.
2
When you pass through the waters, I will be with you;
And through the rivers, they shall not overflow you.
When you walk through the fire, you shall not be burned,
Nor shall the flame scorch you.
3
For I am Y-H-W-H
your God,
The Holy One of Israel, your Savior;
I gave Egypt for your ransom,
Ethiopia and Seba in your place.
4
Since you were precious in My sight,
You have been honored,
And I have loved you;
Therefore I will give men for you,
And people for your life.
5
Fear not, for I am with you;
I will bring your descendants from the east,
And gather you from the west;
6
I will say to the north, ‘Give them up!’
And to the south, ‘Do not keep them back!’
Bring My sons from afar,
And My daughters from the ends of the earth"

How can anybody with two working brain cells say this does not speak about ISRAEL?? :confused:

The physical seed of Abraham Israel, they are not the children of God ! Rom 9:8
 
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