Let's try something new: Do we agree on anything?

Derf

Well-known member
It makes little sense for it to be done that way, and the only reason to keep holding to that idea is a commitment to the belief that they all preached the same thing.

It makes far more sense for it to be a change in dispensations, where the leadership of the former is not aptly suitable for preaching the latter, so a new leader is hand-picked by God to take that gospel to the rest of the world.

Otherwise, why not just send one of the twelve? Or more? Surely dividing up the twelve between Israel and the rest of the world would be smarter?
We don't know how the original plan might have worked. My thought is that the original plan involved much larger numbers of Jews believing and being sent out, but because Paul and company were persecuting instead of joining the movement, God determined a new way (one He had considered before, but wasn't needed until the Jews rejected their messiah and His offer of forgiveness, as Peter offered) of taking the message to the Gentiles, but not a new message. Remember that the message was verbalized somewhat by the angels at Christ's birth.
Luke 2:14 KJV — Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men.
 

Derf

Well-known member
Now, I'd love to hear from people who agree with things regarding the topic: Seeking to know our God.
You do realize this is more of a debate forum, right? If you don't agree, then maybe this topic is one you should meditate on a bit.
 

JudgeRightly

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We don't know how the original plan might have worked.

Ever read Acts 1-7?

It was working, at least initially.

My thought is that the original plan involved much larger numbers of Jews believing and being sent out,

This is literally the plot of the Bible.

Israel was always meant to be a spokes-nation to the world. God had spokesmen (prophets), and tried to scale up. Acts shows that it didn't work.

So God went to plan B, a mystery kept secret from the foundation of the world, using one person to go to all nations.

but because Paul and company were persecuting instead of joining the movement, God determined a new way

New way?

Try "mystery kept secret from the foundation of the world."

(one He had considered before, but wasn't needed until the Jews rejected their messiah and His offer of forgiveness, as Peter offered)

This is the plot twist of the Bible.

of taking the message to the Gentiles, but not a new message.

"You must be circumcised" and "you don't have to circumcise" are the same message?

Remember that the message was verbalized somewhat by the angels at Christ's birth.

Luke 2:14 KJV — Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men.

Nowhere in the gospels is Christ's death burial and resurrection openly preached. And prior to Paul's conversion, Christ's crucifixion is preached as a condemnation against the Jews, not as the core tenet of salvation. (cf, Acts 1-7).

But that's the core claim of Paul's message and subsequently Christianity as a whole, that Christ was raised to bring life to the dead, not to the remission of sins (which is something only found in the Gospels, Acts 2, in Acts 10:43 in the context of Peter and Cornelius, and the epistle to the Hebrews).
 

Ps82

Well-known member
You do realize this is more of a debate forum, right? If you don't agree, then maybe this topic is one you should meditate on a bit.
I know and I'm willing ... but I have been called so many names and just been laughed at. That doesn't sound like a debate either.

I thought perhaps some of us could find some points upon which we could agree ... a foundation a beginning place of sort then move forward from there to more debatable ideas. Doesn't debate include some sort of underlying topic or agreement. Even those who debate how thing began have the same idea that it began. Right?
 

Ps82

Well-known member
Ever read Acts 1-7?

It was working, at least initially.



This is literally the plot of the Bible.

Israel was always meant to be a spokes-nation to the world. God had spokesmen (prophets), and tried to scale up. Acts shows that it didn't work.

So God went to plan B, a mystery kept secret from the foundation of the world, using one person to go to all nations.



New way?

Try "mystery kept secret from the foundation of the world."



This is the plot twist of the Bible.



"You must be circumcised" and "you don't have to circumcise" are the same message?



Nowhere in the gospels is Christ's death burial and resurrection openly preached. And prior to Paul's conversion, Christ's crucifixion is preached as a condemnation against the Jews, not as the core tenet of salvation. (cf, Acts 1-7).

But that's the core claim of Paul's message and subsequently Christianity as a whole, that Christ was raised to bring life to the dead, not to the remission of sins (which is something only found in the Gospels, Acts 2, in Acts 10:43 in the context of Peter and Cornelius, and the epistle to the Hebrews).
My thoughts: The entire New Testament was the revelation of how Christ came as the Promised one ... how he proved he was God by what he said and the miracles he did ... and by the fact that he did arise from the dead where many people saw him walking around after he arose. As a Christians I believe those who reported the facts.

Now, there is a favorite place of mine in the OT which talks about God (capital G) mission to arise.
Watch: Ps 82:8
ARISE, O God, judge the earth: for you shalt inherit all nations.

This was talking about the promised Messiah.

Isa. 43:11 makes clear the identity of the Savior. Watch:
I (God), even I, am the LORD; and beside ME there is no savior.

Our Savior was God, who came as an individual human being, while being Emmanuel. The WORD, our Savior, was God and was with God from the beginning and finally came as God's living WORD. When Lord Jesus spoke, he spoke God's words. When he did miracles, it was the power of God behind his spoken word. The same power and WORD which participated in creation in Genesis 1.

Christ once told a group of unbelieving Jews. If you believe not my words, at least, believe the miracles I do. JIOW, Jesus did miracles only God could do. Jesus was Emanuel (God among us) come as promised as the GOD/Savior who came to ARISE
 

Ps82

Well-known member
My thoughts things invisible are real; so, this is what I accept. I'm not sure what you mean by "non dual nature." Let me see: A theory or doctrine that denies the existence of a distinction or duality in some sphere, such as that between matter and mind, or God and the world.

Well, I believe God is all and is in all ... and all is in him. Is that what you believe? Colossians 1: 17 says: And he is before all things, and by him all things CONSIST.
 

Ps82

Well-known member
one substance
I call that one substance: the invisible spirit
God the spirit is full of power, intellect, ideas, power, love, foreknowledge ... etc. etc. etc. You can't see HIM but you can witness with the eyes he gave you all the things he manifested for you to see. I think this is why people like to say: He created things out of nothing. I do not agree with that theory. There is no NOTHING within God. He is omni-present and all things came about and exist because he exists.
 
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