Announcement

Collapse

Creation Science Rules

This is a new section being rolled out to attract people interested in exploring the origins of the universe and the earth from a biblical perspective.
Debate is encouraged and opposing viewpoints are welcome to post but certain rules must be followed.
1. No abusive tagging - if abusive tags are found - they will be deleted and disabled by the Admin team
2. No calling the biblical accounts a fable - fairy tale ect. This is a Christian site, so members that participate here must be respectful in their disagreement.
See more
See less

Young Earth or Old?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Originally posted by Apple7 View Post
    Incorrect.

    Blessing and sanctifying (anything) has absolutely ZERO association with 'closing' that event, as demonstrated by the Hebrew usage of these terms in ANY OT context.
    Not my argument.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by JudgeRightly View Post
      Apple, this passage does not describe the atmosphere and the seas. It describes the waters above (what would become the seas) and the waters below (the subterranean chambers of water which would eventually break forth in the Flood of Noah).

      The Gen 1 creation story is paralleled in numerous passages outside of Genesis, and they declare the same thing: that God established Earth’s atmosphere and water cycle, and maintains it, on Creation 'Day' 2.

      Support scripture:

      For He draws up the drops of water; they distill rain into mist, which the clouds drip down, and drop upon men plentifully. Also can any understand the spreading of the clouds, the crashing of His canopy? Behold, He spreads His light about Him, and He covers the bottom of the sea. For He judges the people by them; He gives plenty of food. He covers His hands with the lightning, and commands it to strike the mark; its thunder tells about Him; also the cattle, as to what is coming. (Job 36:27-33)

      He lets it loose under the whole heavens, and His lightning to the wings of the earth. After it, a voice roars; He thunders with His majestic voice; and He will not hold them back when His voice is heard. God thunders wondrously with His voice; He does great things, and we do not know. For He says to the snow, Fall on the earth; also to the shower of rain, and the shower of heavy rains. He seals up the hand of every man so that all men may know His work. Then the beast goes into its lair, and they stay in their dens. Out of the storeroom comes the tempest, and cold from scattering winds. Ice is given by God's breath, and the expanse of waters is frozen. Yea, He loads the cloud with moisture; He scatters His lightning cloud; and it is turned around by His guidance, so that they may do whatever He commands them on the face of the world of the earth. Whether as a whip, or for His land, or for mercy, He finds it. (Job 37:3-13)


      Or who shut up the sea with doors, when it burst out; it came forth from the womb? When I made the clouds to clothe it, and darkness its navel-band; (Job 38:8-9)

      Have you entered into the storehouses of the snow, or have you seen the storehouses of the hail, which I have reserved for the time of distress for the day of battle and war? How is it, the way the light is distributed; and how does the east wind spread itself on the earth? Who has cut a channel for the flood; or a way for the thunderclaps, to make it rain on the earth where no man is, a wilderness and no man in it; to satisfy the waste and desolation, and to cause the source of grass to sprout? Is there a father for the rain? Or who has given birth to the drops of dew? From whose womb comes forth the ice; and the frost of the heavens, who fathered it; the waters hidden like stone, and the face of the deep is captured? (Job 38:22-30)


      He binds up the waters in His thick clouds; and the cloud does not burst under them. (Job 26:8)

      The wind goes toward the south, and turning around to the north; the wind is going around and around. And the wind returns on its circuits. All the rivers are going to the sea; yet the sea is not full. To the place where the rivers are going, there they are returning to go again. (Ecc 1:6-7)

      He who created the Pleiades and Orion, and turns the deep darkness into the morning, and He darkened the day into night; who calls for the waters of the sea and pours them out on the face of the earth, Yahweh is His name; (Amos 5:8)

      And mist went up from the earth and watered the whole face of the ground. (Gen 2:6)

      For as the rain and the snow comes down from the heavens and do not return there, except it waters the earth and make it bring forth and bud, and give seed to the sower and bread to the eater, (Isa 55:10)

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Apple7 View Post
        The Gen 1 creation story is paralleled in numerous passages outside of Genesis, and they declare the same thing: that God established Earth’s atmosphere and water cycle, and maintains it, on Creation 'Day' 2.

        Support scripture:

        For He draws up the drops of water; they distill rain into mist, which the clouds drip down, and drop upon men plentifully. Also can any understand the spreading of the clouds, the crashing of His canopy? Behold, He spreads His light about Him, and He covers the bottom of the sea. For He judges the people by them; He gives plenty of food. He covers His hands with the lightning, and commands it to strike the mark; its thunder tells about Him; also the cattle, as to what is coming. (Job 36:27-33)

        He lets it loose under the whole heavens, and His lightning to the wings of the earth. After it, a voice roars; He thunders with His majestic voice; and He will not hold them back when His voice is heard. God thunders wondrously with His voice; He does great things, and we do not know. For He says to the snow, Fall on the earth; also to the shower of rain, and the shower of heavy rains. He seals up the hand of every man so that all men may know His work. Then the beast goes into its lair, and they stay in their dens. Out of the storeroom comes the tempest, and cold from scattering winds. Ice is given by God's breath, and the expanse of waters is frozen. Yea, He loads the cloud with moisture; He scatters His lightning cloud; and it is turned around by His guidance, so that they may do whatever He commands them on the face of the world of the earth. Whether as a whip, or for His land, or for mercy, He finds it. (Job 37:3-13)


        Or who shut up the sea with doors, when it burst out; it came forth from the womb? When I made the clouds to clothe it, and darkness its navel-band; (Job 38:8-9)

        Have you entered into the storehouses of the snow, or have you seen the storehouses of the hail, which I have reserved for the time of distress for the day of battle and war? How is it, the way the light is distributed; and how does the east wind spread itself on the earth? Who has cut a channel for the flood; or a way for the thunderclaps, to make it rain on the earth where no man is, a wilderness and no man in it; to satisfy the waste and desolation, and to cause the source of grass to sprout? Is there a father for the rain? Or who has given birth to the drops of dew? From whose womb comes forth the ice; and the frost of the heavens, who fathered it; the waters hidden like stone, and the face of the deep is captured? (Job 38:22-30)


        He binds up the waters in His thick clouds; and the cloud does not burst under them. (Job 26:8)

        The wind goes toward the south, and turning around to the north; the wind is going around and around. And the wind returns on its circuits. All the rivers are going to the sea; yet the sea is not full. To the place where the rivers are going, there they are returning to go again. (Ecc 1:6-7)

        He who created the Pleiades and Orion, and turns the deep darkness into the morning, and He darkened the day into night; who calls for the waters of the sea and pours them out on the face of the earth, Yahweh is His name; (Amos 5:8)

        And mist went up from the earth and watered the whole face of the ground. (Gen 2:6)

        For as the rain and the snow comes down from the heavens and do not return there, except it waters the earth and make it bring forth and bud, and give seed to the sower and bread to the eater, (Isa 55:10)
        My post is longer than that, Apple.
        Originally posted by JudgeRightly View Post
        It was closed, just not in the same way as the first six, because it was the end of the creation week.

        Thus the heavens and the earth, and all the host of them, were finished.And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done.Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made. - Genesis 2:1-3 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...3&version=NKJV

        The "Then" in the above passage is when the seventh day closed.

        What does it describe God doing? Blessing the seventh day, "because in it He rested."



        Nope.

        We're in the here and now, not 7000 years ago.







        Eden is a geographical region.

        The Garden of Eden (which is sometimes referred to as simply Eden) is a specific location in Eden.



        Apple, this passage does not describe the atmosphere and the seas. It describes the waters above (what would become the seas) and the waters below (the subterranean chambers of water which would eventually break forth in the Flood of Noah).

        The waters of day 2 are the waters of verse 2.

        And the firmament that God made in the midst of those waters is the crust of the earth.

        Everything we have talked about can be found explained in detail on http://kgov.com/firmament. I suggest you watch the five minute clip on that page, as it is directly related to this discussion.

        I also recommend that you watch the following video, which goes through the Hydroplate Theory, breaking it down and showing how it works. The reason for thus is that the Hydroplate Theory, which is primarily a Flood model, also includes how the earth was formed. Bryan Nickel does a good job animating each step God took when He created the Earth and formed it.

        https://youtu.be/4hhE6tzJR_c

        (You can find the individual parts of the video on Bryan's YT channel, there are six parts total, plus some other videos that explain other aspects of our universe.)

        Comment


        • Originally posted by JudgeRightly View Post

          The context of each word "day" in Genesis 1 indicates a normal day, like any other day.
          Incorrect.

          Each 'day' in Gen 1 concludes with 'and there was evening and there was morning'.

          The Hebrew day is from evening to evening.

          Thus, the very best that can be read from a YEC literalist interpretation would be a 12hr duration, at best.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Apple7 View Post
            Incorrect.

            Each 'day' in Gen 1 concludes with 'and there was evening and there was morning'.

            The Hebrew day is from evening to evening.

            Thus, the very best that can be read from a YEC literalist interpretation would be a 12hr duration, at best.
            I've had this discussion already. Read from here.

            https://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?p=5327451

            Comment


            • Originally posted by JudgeRightly View Post
              I've had this discussion already. Read from here.

              https://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?p=5327451
              Bring forth your summary.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by JudgeRightly View Post
                AND

                And He said to them, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven. - Luke 10:18 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...8&version=NKJV .

                Please elaborate on just how this passage agrees with your assessment that Satan was cast upon the earth out of Eden, on earth...earth-to-earth, as it were....when, in fact, the comparison in Luke 10 is to that of 'lightning' which bridges the gap between the heavens and the earth.

                This passage actually goes strongly against your theory, yes?

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
                  The "beginning" being referred to is the "creation" of humans. When the LORD began to create humans He made them male and female
                  Jerry.... You are interpreting the verse, trying to make it fit into modern secular notions. The Son of God spoke quite clearly in Mark 10:6 "From the beginning of the creation, male and female made He them" He did not say from the beginning of humanity...or 'from the beginning of their creation'.

                  Also.... the Greek word used for beginning is 'arche' which denotes an absolute beginning
                  Originally posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
                  On the other hand, when the LORD created the earth it was created to be inhabited
                  That is correct. He formed and filled the earth during the six days of creation. He could have done it in an instant, but instead created during six days, and rested the seventh.
                  Without Genesis, absolutely nothing makes sense in all of Scripture.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Apple7 View Post
                    In keeping with the OT reference, to which this passage applies, the original Hebrew verbs would be ‘bara’ (always used of God via creation ex nihilo), and ‘yatsar’ / ‘banah’ (made).
                    Apple..... That is a modern opinion compromising scripture...attempting to add deep time into God's Word. Barah and Asah are used interchangeably throughout Scripture. For example.. Genesis 1:1 God 'bara' the heavens and the earth. In Nehemiah 9:6 God 'asah' the heavens and earth.
                    Without Genesis, absolutely nothing makes sense in all of Scripture.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by 6days View Post
                      Apple..... That is a modern opinion compromising scripture...attempting to add deep time into God's Word. Barah and Asah are used interchangeably throughout Scripture. For example.. Genesis 1:1 God 'bara' the heavens and the earth. In Nehemiah 9:6 God 'asah' the heavens and earth.
                      Incorrect.

                      Scripture uses different terms to relate different events.

                      This is NOT a 'modern opinion', as you claim.

                      Bring forth your verifiable lexicography that claims that it is a 'modern opinion'.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by 6days View Post
                        Jerry.... You are interpreting the verse, trying to make it fit into modern secular notions. The Son of God spoke quite clearly in Mark 10:6 "From the beginning of the creation, male and female made He them" He did not say from the beginning of humanity...or 'from the beginning of their creation'.
                        We can understand that the "creation" spoken of there is referring to time when the LORD "began" to make humans both male and female when we look at the following verse which speaks of the very same thing as Mark 10:6:

                        "The Pharisees also came to Him, testing Him, and saying to Him, "Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for just any reason?" And He answered and said to them, "Have you not read that He who made them at the beginning 'made them male and female,'"
                        (Mt.19:3-4).

                        Originally posted by 6days View Post
                        Also.... the Greek word used for beginning is 'arche' which denotes an absolute beginning
                        Then the sixth day cannot be considered the absolute beginning because five days preceded that day. On the other hand, the time when the LORD began to make humans was in fact the absolute beginning when humans were made. And that is the only correct understanding of the meaning of Matthew 19:4 and Mark 10:6.

                        Originally posted by 6days View Post
                        He formed and filled the earth during the six days of creation. He could have done it in an instant, but instead created during six days, and rested the seventh.
                        In the absolute beginning the LORD created the earth and He created it at that time to be inhabited:

                        "For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited" (Isa.45:18).

                        When the Lord created the earth it was made in such a way whereby it wasn't created in darkness and it was created with form. But you say that the following verse describes how it was created despite the fact that that verse decribes an earth that is not inhabitable:

                        "And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep"
                        (Gen.1:2).

                        What is said in "bold" in the following statement refers to the earth being inhabited before it was in a state described as being without form:

                        "Of the origin of our world the first chapter of Genesis tells us nothing save that 'in the beginning,' whenever that was, God 'created' it. It may be, as Tyndall said in his Belfast address, that 'for eons embracing untold millions of years, this earth has been the theatre of life and death.' But as to this the 'Mosaic narrative' is silent. It deals merely with the renewing and refurnishing of our planet as a home for man"
                        (Sir Robert Anderson, A DOUBTER'S DOUBTS About Science and Religion).

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Apple7 View Post
                          Incorrect.

                          Scripture uses different terms to relate different events.

                          This is NOT a 'modern opinion', as you claim.

                          Bring forth your verifiable lexicography that claims that it is a 'modern opinion'.
                          He's "brought forth" Biblical verses that show that bara and asah are used interchangably in the Bible. no need for "verifiable lexicography". However he did not show that your error is 'modern'.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by chair View Post
                            He's "brought forth" Biblical verses that show that bara and asah are used interchangably in the Bible. no need for "verifiable lexicography". However he did not show that your error is 'modern'.
                            Incorrect.

                            The construct of each passage is entirely different from the other, and intent is different.

                            No lexicon proclaims that these two Hebrew terms are synonyms of each other.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Apple7 View Post
                              Incorrect.

                              The construct of each passage is entirely different from the other, and intent is different.

                              No lexicon proclaims that these two Hebrew terms are synonyms of each other.
                              Why don't you address the texts directly? Quote lexicons if you like. That will be more effective than simply claiming unnamed lexicons as supporting your view.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by chair View Post
                                Why don't you address the texts directly? Quote lexicons if you like. That will be more effective than simply claiming unnamed lexicons as supporting your view.
                                The onus is upon the person making the assertion (6days) and the one agreeing with the assertion (you).

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X