• This is a new section being rolled out to attract people interested in exploring the origins of the universe and the earth from a biblical perspective. Debate is encouraged and opposing viewpoints are welcome to post but certain rules must be followed. 1. No abusive tagging - if abusive tags are found - they will be deleted and disabled by the Admin team 2. No calling the biblical accounts a fable - fairy tale ect. This is a Christian site, so members that participate here must be respectful in their disagreement.

Young Earth or Old?

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
Is the earth relatively young (6,000-10,000 years old) or is it old (millions or billions of years old)? This thread will discuss this subject. First, let us look at the following two verses which refer to the creation:

"In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth" (Gen.1:1).​

"For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited"
(Isa.45:18).​

In the beginning the LORD created the earth and formed it to be inhabited. However, sometime after He formed it to be inhabited it became "without form" and dark so that it was no longer fitted to be inhabited:

"In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day" (Gen.1:5).​

What is said in "bold" in the following statement refers to the earth being inhabited before it was in a state described as being without form:

"Of the origin of our world the first chapter of Genesis tells us nothing save that 'in the beginning,' whenever that was, God 'created' it. It may be, as Tyndall said in his Belfast address, that 'for eons embracing untold millions of years, this earth has been the theatre of life and death.' But as to this the 'Mosaic narrative' is silent. It deals merely with the renewing and refurnishing of our planet as a home for man" (Sir Robert Anderson, A DOUBTER'S DOUBTS About Science and Religion).​

Sometime after the world was no longer habitable the LORD began to re-form both the earth and the heavens to make it habitable and that took six days. So in the debate between Christian about whether the earth is young or old I say that it is old.
 
Last edited:

Stripe

Teenage Adaptive Ninja Turtle
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
It may be ... that 'for eons embracing untold millions of years, this earth has been the theatre of life and death.'
Or it might not be. :idunno:

But as to this the 'Mosaic narrative' is silent.
So you've got an argument from silence.

Got any evidence?

I say that it is old.

Good for you.

Have you got any reason that it would be wrong to believe that the universe and everything in it was made in six days?
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
Have you got any reason that it would be wrong to believe that the universe and everything in it was made in six days?

I just can't believe that even though the LORD formed the earth to be habitable that the following verse is speaking about the way the LORD originally formed it since it was not habitable at this point in time:

"In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep"
(Gen.1:1-2).​
 

Aimiel

New member
While I believe that the earth is very young, indeed; there are also a very large number of contemporary scientists who fall in the young earth category: HERE is a list of a few. Should the earth actually be millions of years old, it may just be that God created it with man in mind but let angels inhabit it. We aren't told yet, so it really doesn't much matter. We'll know one day.
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
While I believe that the earth is very young, indeed; there are also a very large number of contemporary scientists who fall in the young earth category: HERE is a list of a few. Should the earth actually be millions of years old, it may just be that God created it with man in mind but let angels inhabit it. We aren't told yet, so it really doesn't much matter. We'll know one day.

Most of the scientists you list are denying evolution, not young or old earth.

I too deny evolution but I believe that the earth is old and not young.
 

Apple7

New member
Perhaps a more important question than the age of the earth and Universe, is WHY God needed to create it in the first place.

There are numerous creation stories contained in scripture, and many of them have woven-in the need to specifically mention evil encompassing creation....rather strange, unless, the entire reason for creation is to conquer evil to begin with...
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
So no evidence then?

I stated my evidence but you must have not have understood it. The following verse does not describe the way that the LORD created the earth:

"And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep" (Gen.1:2).​

When the LORD created the earth it was formed to be inhabited:

"For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited" (Isa.45:18).​

According to your idea the LORD made the earth without form despite the fact that the Scriptures declare that He formed it to be inhabited.
 

Stripe

Teenage Adaptive Ninja Turtle
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
I stated my evidence.
It boils down to an argument from silence.

The following verse does not describe the way that the LORD created the earth:
Because you say so?

When the LORD created the earth it was formed to be inhabited:
And it was. :idunno:

Still is. :idunno:

According to your idea the LORD made the earth without form despite the fact that the Scriptures declare that He formed it to be inhabited.

When He started, it was without form. That's what the Bible says. When He finished, it had form and was inhabited.

It's a mystery to me why this is confusing you.
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
It's a mystery to me why this is confusing you.

You are the one who is confused because you can't seem to understand what is said here:

"For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited" (Isa.45:18).​

The LORD created the earth to be inhabited. Will you answer a question for me? Do you think that the following verse describes an earth which the LORD formed to be inhabited?:

"And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep" (Gen.1:2).​

Please explain how the earth could be "formed" to be inhabited even though, according to you, the earth was created by the LORD "without form."
 

oatmeal

Well-known member
Is the earth relatively young (6,000-10,000 years old) or is it old (millions or billions of years old)? This thread will discuss this subject. First, let us look at the following two verses which refer to the creation:

"In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth" (Gen.1:1).​

"For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited"
(Isa.45:18).​

In the beginning the LORD created the earth and formed it to be inhabited. However, sometime after He formed it to be inhabited it became "without form" and dark so that it was no longer fitted to be inhabited:

"In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day" (Gen.1:5).​

What is said in "bold" in the following statement refers to the earth being inhabited before it was in a state described as being without form:

"Of the origin of our world the first chapter of Genesis tells us nothing save that 'in the beginning,' whenever that was, God 'created' it. It may be, as Tyndall said in his Belfast address, that 'for eons embracing untold millions of years, this earth has been the theatre of life and death.' But as to this the 'Mosaic narrative' is silent. It deals merely with the renewing and refurnishing of our planet as a home for man" (Sir Robert Anderson, A DOUBTER'S DOUBTS About Science and Religion).​

Sometime after the world was no longer habitable the LORD began to re-form both the earth and the heavens to make it habitable and that took six days. So in the debate between Christian about whether the earth is young or old I say that it is old.


The word of God is plain on the subject.

Genesis 1:1

God created the heaven and the earth.

At parochial grade school, I was taught that God is perfect. Since God is perfect, everything he does is perfect.

Thus is seems that the heaven and earth he created had to be perfect in its original form.

So how is that it could be "without form and void"

The key is understanding that there is no verb "to be" in the Hebrew. There is a verb "to become"

The earth was not without form and void in Genesis 1:1 but it became without form and void.

When? Sometime between verse 1 and verse 2

In Genesis 1:3 God begins the work to restore the earth to a livable state.

How long did the earth and heavens exist before God began restoring it?

Maybe billions of years. The word of God does not say

The earth is old but the earth as God restored it is young
 
Last edited:

way 2 go

Well-known member
The word of God is plain on the subject.

Genesis 1:1

God created the heaven and the earth.

At parochial grade school, I was taught that God is perfect. Since God is perfect, everything he does is perfect.

Thus is seems that the heaven and earth he created had to be perfect in its original form.

God only creates perfect things,
how did it become imperfect without anyone else to cause it to become imperfect ?


Without form and void does not mean imperfect just not formed yet.

God created all the matter and energy of creation perfectly on day one.
 

way 2 go

Well-known member
You are the one who is confused because you can't seem to understand what is said here:
"For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited" (Isa.45:18).

The LORD created the earth to be inhabited.
it says he formed it to be inhabited . why did you change the word


Will you answer a question for me? Do you think that the following verse describes an earth which the LORD formed to be inhabited?:
"And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep" (Gen.1:2).
this verse says what was created to be "formed to be inhabited"

Please explain how the earth could be "formed" to be inhabited even though, according to you, the earth was created by the LORD "without form."

it was without form so God "formed it to be inhabited(Isa.45:18) "
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
At parochial grade school, I was taught that God is perfect. Since God is perfect, everything he does is perfect.

Thus is seems that the heaven and earth he created had to be perfect in its original form.

So how is that it could be "without form and void"

EXACTLY!

According to those in the young earth camp the LORD didn't get it right the first time so He had to fix His mistakes later.
 

JudgeRightly

裁判官が正しく判断する
Staff member
Administrator
Super Moderator
Gold Subscriber
EXACTLY!

According to those in the young earth camp the LORD didn't get it right the first time so He had to fix His mistakes later.
No, Jerry.

That's a straw man you're projecting onto us.

God did everything in the first 6 days exactly the way He wanted to.

He created the heavens and the earth, then formed them to be inhabited. Just like Isaiah says.

He made no mistakes.

You're the one who is saying that God created the heavens and the earth in vain, because YOU are the one saying He had to remake the heavens and the earth.

We are saying, just as the Bible does, that God simply created the heaves and the earth, and then over the next six days, He formed it to be inhabited.
 
Top