toldailytopic: Once a person is saved can they reject that salvation should they chan

[StanJ53]

?

Yep that's what I said GM.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Yep that's what I said GM.

Well, I'll bite! What do you mean by that?

 

[godrulz]

What probation period?? How can one, shipwreck their faith? You have some strange ideas,
my rather strange friend!

The probation period means that this life is the only life we have to make a decision for or against God. It does not mean Christians are put on probation until they prove themselves good enough or something.

Shipwreck faith...I Tim. 1:19 (cf. Heb. 6:4-6)

 

[glorydaz]

The probation period means that this life is the only life we have to make a decision for or against God. It does not mean Christians are put on probation until they prove themselves good enough or something.

Shipwreck faith...I Tim. 1:19 (cf. Heb. 6:4-6)

Paul never says one word in 1 Timothy about losing one's salvation. Our salvation is assured. What is put in jeopardy is our rest, for if our conscience is always condemning us, or if we have no assurance of our salvation, we are left without the peace of God. And why would a believer's conscience be condemning them? Because they listen to those who preach fear and doubt in our Lord's ability to keep them unto the day of redemption.

Your verses in Heb. are used just as incorrectly as those you've used in 1 Timothy. If you look for doubt instead of believing the promises, you will find it....and you will stumble many who are young in the Lord, ruining their confidence in their own salvation. You, godrulz, are one of those who cause others to shipwreck their faith because you preach a gospel of fear, loss, and condemnation when there is no place for that in the Gospel of Grace.

When you destroy a person's confidence in their own salvation, you set them on a road of striving to keep what they are afraid they can lose. That is stopping someone dead in their tracks and ruining their witness as well as stiffling the very gifts the Holy Spirit would have them be using for the edification of the body.

 

[godrulz]

There is a big difference between Judas and Peter or Thomas. There is a big difference between giving false assurance to extreme apostates and biblical assurance from the Spirit and Word for those who struggle with their faith. I could say your view leads to grace as a license to sin, but not necessarily so. To say my view leads to causing people to fail, doubt, etc. is a non-sequitur. I do not teach insecurity, but biblical vs manmade security. You are railing against a straw man, an extreme view most do not hold.

It is hard to reason with the unreasonable.

 

[glorydaz]

There is a big difference between Judas and Peter or Thomas. There is a big difference between giving false assurance to extreme apostates and biblical assurance from the Spirit and Word for those who struggle with their faith. I could say your view leads to grace as a license to sin, but not necessarily so. To say my view leads to causing people to fail, doubt, etc. is a non-sequitur. I do not teach insecurity, but biblical vs manmade security. You are railing against a straw man, an extreme view most do not hold.

It is hard to reason with the unreasonable.

I believe I'm quite reasonable. Are we to preach loss of salvation when we are God's workmanship? Do we trust in ourselves to keep ourselves saved? Are we to have no assurance of our salvation just because so many claim a salvation they do not have?

We see the difference right here....doubt, fear, and no assurance as compared to peace, quietness and assurance for ever.

Deuteronomy 28:66
And thy life shall hang in doubt before thee; and thou shalt fear day and night, and shalt have none assurance of thy life:

Isaiah 32:17
And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever.


I won't be responsible for those who use the grace of God for a license to sin for that is not what I see in the Word of God. Rather I see we are saved by grace through faith, and we are ordained to do good works as a result of our salvation.

But, on the other hand, when you put forth the idea that those who are really saved can lose their salvation, then you change the Word of God to say what you see with your own eyes...people who seem to have fallen away from a faith that was false to begin with.

So, I'll ask you again. Do YOU believe YOU can ever lose YOUR salvation?

 

[godrulz]

I personally do not have a propensity to apostasy/falling away. It is theoretically possible, but improbable. However, this does not mean that no one in biblical or church history has fallen away.

Refresh my memory: Are you a Calvinist or MAD?

 

[StanJ53]

Well, I'll bite! What do you mean by that?

We don't spend eternity with God and Jesus in Heaven, we spend it on the earth, first in the thousand year reign of Jesus then after He creates the new heaven and new earth.

Rev 19-22

 

[Wile E. Coyote]

I'm still waiting for you to provide a link to Nick posting that...

Nick knows he said it.

Lying sack of scum.

If you had any honor you'd at least point to something that could be misconstrued to make such a claim, but you're too disingenuous to even do that.

You were arguing that adultery is still a crime today and you said:

Grace is for sin, not crime.

There is it! You said that grace is not for crime (adultery). So, not only are you a Christ hating swine because you stand with the scribes and pharisees in condemning people, but you are a COWARDLY swine because you do not have the guts to admit it. Christ condemned the self righteous you dummy.

This means Christ condemns YOU and Nick M. You are a perverter of God's grace! Keep your nose out of the sin of others you moron!

 

[Nick M]

2 Thessalonians 2:3
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Others that have retranslated say this is wrong in an important way. They say the day will happen uless the departure happens first.

 

[Nick M]

Some here are unable to grasp the idea that, a saved person can exist (spirit wise) in the, Body of Christ while living in their physical (fleshly) bodies here in this world.

Action of the flesh is not evidence of salvation. Confession is evidence. We are not to regard the flesh when judging salvation.

 

[Nick M]

Your verses in Heb. are used just as incorrectly as those you've used in 1 Timothy. If you look for doubt instead of believing the promises, you will find it....and you will stumble many who are young in the Lord, ruining their confidence in their own salvation. You, godrulz, are one of those who cause others to shipwreck their faith because you preach a gospel of fear, loss, and condemnation when there is no place for that in the Gospel of Grace.

He scours the Bible for comdenation. And he really says everything in this mock video I made of him.

godrulz

 

[godrulz]

Wile dishes it out against LH/Nick like they do against me...:chuckle::box:

 

[Nick M]

To say my view leads to causing people to fail, doubt, etc. is a non-sequitur. I do not teach insecurity, but biblical vs manmade security. You are railing against a straw man, an extreme view most do not hold.

Here is the godrulz library.

 

[godrulz]

Never heard of them...The B-I-B-L-E, that's the book for me (kid's ditty)....

 

[Delmar]

Nick M is a Christ hating swine! His applied theology denies salvation by grace. He once said that anyone who voted for Obama is going to hell. This is a denial that salvation is by grace.

I don't think so. I just think he was stating the obvious, that voting for Obama is powerful evidence that a person was most likely never saved.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Who would be filled with joy that, doubt be created against
a man's faith in his eternal destination?

Who would benefit from a doubting mind and heart?

Who would rejoice if a man focused only, on his sin alone?

Who would delight in taking the joy away from Gods precious gift?

Who would confuse the minds of those who read and study yet, only see fear and doubt?

Who would?

A hint; he who said, "You shall not surely die:"

 

[Nick M]

I don't think so. I just think he was stating the obvious, that voting for Obama is powerful evidence that a person was most likely never saved.

He knows. I am done going 'round and 'round with him. What you confess shows what you believe. Not your actions of dead flesh.

 

[Nick M]

Never heard of them...The B-I-B-L-E, that's the book for me (kid's ditty)....

Yeah. lain:

I quote the bible when necessary...(forget exact verse).. I have books in my library that refute you in detail that you cannot refute. They do a better job than I would in a few posts…...Google may also help....If you study biblical theology (looking at books, authors, etc.) instead of systematic theology or ultradispensationalism, you would see that... As it is, commentators disagree on… I believe sound evangelical scholarship totally refutes what you are saying … He is not worth reading in light of the sound scholarship that exists ..Sound NT scholarship recognizes.... Whole books have been written on it… The vast majority of godly Christians have not heard of MAD. The best of conservative, biblical, evangelical scholarship rejects it if they have heard of it…. Exact reference again? Did you check other versions or a commentary?... Buy a good commentary for the various opinions on… Hermeneutical books point out that… Even in your traditional view, scholars do not express your issues…I am not an expert on MAD and do not consider it a prominent enough view to gain much academic attention…Sound NT scholarship comes to different conclusions…Who was the prominent author (s) who held to it in your movement?.. I think you will be hard pressed to find commentators who would agree with you…As the Bible Knowledge Commentary points out,… it is not even on the radar of credible NT scholars…. I can't condense 30 years of study from a variety of sources into a few posts… any credible commentary or systematic theology will give you the arguments and verses…. I agree with the commentary. .. Listen to the Doctor (D. M. L-Jones), not radio preachers with weak NT backgrounds. …There is a reason it is a marginal view that lacks credibility among NT scholars…"Feel free to refute the many books written that contradict your views…. There is a reason no NT scholar… It is enough solid scholarship to silence MAD… an ignorant JW who blindly follows an organization or their misquoting of our scholars…. You underestimate the caliber of scholars that God has raised up to keep the sheep from falling for false teaching and ignorance on important subjects. Why should I trust you as an expert on things, and reject those with proven track records and godly character/insights? Eph. 4:11-13 vs internet wannabees with no training or accountability…Any credible biblical theology of John and Paul or any credible commentary or NT scholar or average believer has no problem with I Jn. vs Paul.....There are many resources to help you, but you prefer fringe writers over ones that can give you more biblical answers….but I should ignore more credible sources and their documented evidence? Why, pray tell?!.... What school did you go to again?... I went to Bible College in the early 80s, but have no scholastic club except TOL (which is not very scholastic)...MAD confuses corporate, missional issues with individual, redemptive issues....I did not read this in a book (except the Bible), but I think it is a valid observation..They confuse these concepts, a rookie mistake...OSAS makes sense in deterministic Calvinism, not in a free will, relational theism....Nick's view seems to reduce us to sock puppet automatons and requires ignoring large sections of Scripture. He also misunderstands the nature of faith vs works, morals vs metaphysics, Star Trek vs Star Wars, Venus vs Mars, etc You are simplistic to think it is a matter of what the Bible says when you interpret and twist to fit a preconceived idea. It is arrogant to assume that godly, capable, great thinkers through the centuries who reject MAD (new doctrine anyway) are clueless or without the leading of the Spirit….Mormons have a false gospel and false Christ. Pentecostals affirm the same essential, historical, biblical, orthodox truths that you do, but they do not dispensationalize away the gifts of the Spirit for the first century only. Even those who disagree with our distinctives generally do not dispute our common faith in Christ

 

[IMJerusha]

Who would be filled with joy that, doubt be created against
a man's faith in his eternal destination?

Who would benefit from a doubting mind and heart?

Who would rejoice if a man focused only, on his sin alone?

Who would delight in taking the joy away from Gods precious gift?

Who would confuse the minds of those who read and study yet, only see fear and doubt?

Who would?

A hint; he who said, "You shall not surely die:"

You have no right to condemn the Body and you keep forgetting that you are not God. You have no ability to judge the hearts of men and you keep forgetting that you are not God. We're not supposed to focus solely on our sin but on the ways of Yeshua and to ignore our sin is deceiving ourselves. Service in obedience is not taking away the joy of salvation but rather showing forth fruit of Ruach HaKodesh. No one in Yeshua is filled with confusion, fear and doubt. Hope does not put us to shame, why do you?
Romans 15:4 "For whatever was written in former days was written for our instruction, that through endurance and through the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope."