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  • #46
    Re: Hades / The Grave

    .
    Originally posted by Arthur Brain View Post
    Would "love" have that as part of the plan from the outset?
    The Greek verb for "love" in the passage below is impersonal. The grammar indicates that God is sympathetic, but it doesn't necessarily indicate that He actually likes the objects of His sympathy.

    "God so loved the world that He gave His one and only son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send His son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him." (John 3:16-17)

    The Greek verb for the love that God feels for his son is quite a bit different. It's a personal kind love consisting of the elements of affection and fondness.

    "For the Father loves the Son and shows him all He does." (John 5:20)

    So when God threw His son to the wolves for mankind's sake, it was not an easy thing for Him to do. In my opinion, people who snub that degree of generosity not only deserve hell, but hell is too good for them.

    NOTE: The human mind is produced by a three-pound lump of flabby organic tissue, and not even all three of those pounds are devoted to cognitive processes. Plus, 60% of it is fat.

    The IQ of humanity's fatty, flabby organic mind isn't near sufficient enough to comprehend either the reasoning, or the motives, of a mind that's bright enough to invent and create an entire cosmos with all of its forms of life, matter, and energy.

    Humanity's mind is the mind of a paramecium in comparison to its creator's mind. Relative to His, the human mind is practically mindless. i.e. it scarcely has any IQ at all; so it's no surprise that the human mind cannot comprehend why a divine being reputed for kindness would set out to create human life while knowing full well in advance that a percentage of it would end up in terrible suffering.

    You're angry with God. I can't say as I blame you. My first reaction upon hearing that Jesus is coming back some day to rule the world was anger because the news frightened me, and I don't like my buttons pushed like that.

    Why was I frightened? Because I instinctively knew that were I called on the carpet, the interview would not go well for me because I have a lot to answer for; and some of it is ugly, inhumane, uncivil, and shameful.
    _
    Last edited by WeberHome; October 25, 2019, 08:46 AM.

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    • #47
      Originally posted by WeberHome View Post
      .


      The Greek verb for "love" in the passage below is impersonal. The grammar indicates that God is sympathetic, but it doesn't necessarily indicate that He actually likes the objects of His sympathy.

      "God so loved the world that He gave His one and only son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send His son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him." (John 3:16-17)

      The Greek verb for the love that God feels for his son is quite a bit different. It's a personal kind love consisting of the elements of affection and fondness.

      "For the Father loves the Son and shows him all He does." (John 5:20)


      The Biblical definition of love is as descriptive and eloquent as it gets. The diametric opposite of what you put forward.

      So when God threw His son to the wolves for mankind's sake, it was not an easy thing for Him to do. In my opinion, people who snub that degree of generosity not only deserve hell, but hell is too good for them.
      Case in point right here. Not only have you gone into sickening detail as to what you surmise "Hell" comprises of, you actually think that's still too "good" for your fallible flesh and blood neighbour and that they should somehow suffer worse?! Well, there's no love in that is there?

      NOTE: The human mind is produced by a three-pound lump of flabby organic tissue, and not even all three of those pounds are devoted to cognitive processes. Plus, 60% of it is fat.

      The IQ of humanity's fatty, flabby organic mind isn't near sufficient enough to comprehend either the reasoning, or the motives, of a mind that's bright enough to invent and create an entire cosmos with all of its forms of life, matter, and energy.

      Humanity's mind is the mind of a paramecium in comparison to its creator's mind. Relative to His, the human mind is practically mindless. i.e. it scarcely has any IQ at all; so it's no surprise that the human mind cannot comprehend why a divine being reputed for kindness would set out to create human life while knowing full well in advance that a percentage of it would end up in terrible suffering.

      You're angry with God. I can't say as I blame you. My first reaction upon hearing that Jesus is coming back some day to rule the world was anger because the news frightened me, and I don't like my buttons pushed like that.

      Why was I frightened? Because I instinctively knew that were I called on the carpet, the interview would not go well for me because I have a lot to answer for; and some of it is ugly, inhumane, uncivil, and shameful.
      _
      Angry at God? Why? I don't go along with your beliefs as they're just part of a maelstrom of religious doctrine where Christianity in the main doesn't have any real clarity just among those who ascribe to the notion of eternal suffering itself. You talk about being inhumane and ugly, well just look at your above with regards to what you think other people deserve because how you could be any less loving than that?
      Well this is fun isn't it?

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      • #48
        Originally posted by WeberHome View Post
        FAQ: But why hell? It's so extreme. Why not just exterminate people like insects and get it over with instead of forever baking them in an oven and/or simmering them in a lake of brimstone?
        [/size][/font]
        Little known fact: early Christians believed in the eventual salvation of every person. ie. the lake of fire was never thought to be a place of eternal suffering. Now why would they believe that?

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        • #49
          Originally posted by Freedm View Post
          Little known fact: early Christians believed in the eventual salvation of every person. ie. the lake of fire was never thought to be a place of eternal suffering. Now why would they believe that?
          no

          Mat 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into everlasting life.

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          • #50
            Originally posted by Freedm View Post
            "Abraham's side"? What is this now? Is this some other place that people go to when they're not quite worthy of heaven?.
            no

            And why is it right next to hell? Please explain what you mean by this
            it is the place of the dead before the cross

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            • #51
              Re: Hades / The Grave

              .
              Originally posted by Freedm View Post
              early Christians believed in the eventual salvation of every person. ie. the lake of fire was never thought to be a place of eternal suffering. Now why would they believe that?
              Heretics were active in Christianity almost right away; some even while the apostles were still here; e.g. Gal 1:6-9, 1Tim 1:3-4, 2Tim 2:15-18, 1John 2:18-19, and Jud 1:17-19.
              _

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              • #52
                Originally posted by Arthur Brain View Post
                Angry at God? Why?

                at the heart of it?

                pride

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by way 2 go View Post
                  no

                  it is the place of the dead before the cross
                  Is the parable of Lazarus and the rich man your only source for this theory of yours? Or do you have other scripture that talks about this "place of the dead before the cross".

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by way 2 go View Post
                    no

                    Mat 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into everlasting life.
                    The word translated as "everlasting" does not actually mean everlasting. The word in the original Greek manuscripts is "aiōnion" which means "agelong". It does not mean everlasting. Bad translation.

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by way 2 go View Post
                      no

                      Mat 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into everlasting life.
                      For those people that are not the devil's children it will just be dead and in a grave.

                      There are real live children of the devil here today!
                      Joh 8:41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.
                      Joh 8:42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
                      Joh 8:43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
                      Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

                      Mat 13:38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;

                      Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

                      Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Freedm View Post
                        Little known fact:
                        Fact? Aren't you presumptuous.

                        Little known? All gnostics believed this way perverting the Christian message: "Respectable gentleman, allow me to tell you that any religious type of inferno is exclusively symbolic."
                        I Champion GOD’s holiness:
                        - GOD did not need evil so did not create evil for any reason.
                        - All evil is creature-created.

                        I Champion Our Free will:
                        - All spirits created in HIS image had an equal ability and opportunity to choose either heaven or hell by their free will.

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by ttruscott View Post
                          Fact? Aren't you presumptuous.
                          It's a fact not proven with a single verse of scripture or historical record, but by the accumulation of all historical records.

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by WeberHome View Post
                            .


                            Heretics were active in Christianity almost right away; some even while the apostles were still here; e.g. Gal 1:6-9, 1Tim 1:3-4, 2Tim 2:15-18, 1John 2:18-19, and Jud 1:17-19.
                            _
                            So you believe that universalism is heretical? Would it surprise you then to find scripture that supports universalism?

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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Freedm View Post
                              Is the parable of Lazarus and the rich man your only source for this theory of yours? Or do you have other scripture that talks about this "place of the dead before the cross".
                              do you think Jesus lied about what happened
                              to Lazarus and the rich man ?

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Freedm View Post
                                The word translated as "everlasting" does not actually mean everlasting. The word in the original Greek manuscripts is "aiōnion" which means "agelong". It does not mean everlasting. Bad translation.

                                so now you are saying no everlasting life for Christians , your theology is full of lies .


                                Mat 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into everlasting life.

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