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  • ECT: Proof: You were only forgiven of your past sins!

    At the moment you were born-again …
    you were only forgiven of the sins you had committed up to that point in time!

    “For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his OLD sins. Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for IF you do these things you will never stumble; for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.” (2 Peter 1:9-11, NKJV)
    “OLD sins” is also in the KJV, RSV, NLT, AMP

    “having forgotten his purification from his FORMER sins.” (2 Peter 1:9, NASB)
    “FORMER sins” is also in the ESV

    “forgetting that they have been cleansed from their PAST sins.” (2 Peter 1:9, NIV)
    “PAST sins” is also in the HCSB

    Now for some confirming NT passages …

    Paul wrote this to the Corinthian church concerning his words of rebuke
    in 1 Corinthians that he had sent to them concerning some particular sin(s).
    They really needed to be sorrowful and repent.

    “… the pain (from his rebuke) caused you to repent and change your ways. It was the kind of sorrow God wants His people to have, so you were not harmed by us in any way. For the kind of sorrow God wants us to experience leads us away from sin and results in salvation. … worldly sorrow, which lacks repentance, results in spiritual (eternal) death.”
    (2 Corinthians 7:8-10, NLT)

    “Yes, I am afraid that when I come again, God will humble me in your presence. And I will be grieved because many of you have not given up your old sins. You have not repented of your impurity, sexual immorality, and eagerness for lustful pleasure.” (2 Corinthians 12:21, NLT)


    Peter is warning believers about God’s destruction of all ungodly and unholy people:
    “Then he used the water to destroy the ancient (ungodly) world … the day of judgment, when ungodly people will be destroyed. … He is being patient for your sake. He does not want anyone to be destroyed (perish spiritually), but (he) wants everyone to repent. … what holy and godly lives you should live … (you) make every effort to be found living peaceful lives that are pure and blameless in his sight. … I am warning you ahead of time … Be on guard so that you will not be carried away by the errors …” (2 Peter 3:6-17, NLT)

    John gives the condition for the Lord to forgive believers’ present sins:
    “But if we confess our sins to him, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins
    and to cleanse us from all wickedness (unrighteousness).” (1 John 1:9, NLT)

    “This is an extremely important verse … all men need to be repeatedly purified from all unrighteousness – from all their sins … We must confess our sins and turn from them …
    We must also confess them with our actions … (John) is talking here about repentance …
    we must hate our sins and turn from them. This is true repentance.”
    (The Applied New Testament Commentary; Dr. Thomas Hale)


    2 verses later, John reminds believers to ask Jesus to plead our case before the Father:
    “My dear children, I am writing this to you so that you will not sin.
    But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate who pleads our case before the Father.
    He is Jesus Christ, the one who is truly righteous.” (1 John 2:1, NLT)


    Believers are responsible for repenting of their sins after they are born-again!
    They have been given the Holy Spirit, a totally new nature, and God’s word.
    So, they have been enabled to be victorious overcomers over sin, the world, and the devil.
    They have no excuse for failing to do this.
    "Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey,
    you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether
    (slaves) of sin leading to (eternal) death, OR
    (slaves) of obedience leading to righteousness?" (Romans 6:16)

  • #2
    Originally posted by ZacharyB View Post
    At the moment you were born-again …
    you were only forgiven of the sins you had committed up to that point in time!

    “For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his OLD sins. Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for IF you do these things you will never stumble; for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.” (2 Peter 1:9-11, NKJV)
    “OLD sins” is also in the KJV, RSV, NLT, AMP

    “having forgotten his purification from his FORMER sins.” (2 Peter 1:9, NASB)
    “FORMER sins” is also in the ESV

    “forgetting that they have been cleansed from their PAST sins.” (2 Peter 1:9, NIV)
    “PAST sins” is also in the HCSB

    Now for some confirming NT passages …

    Paul wrote this to the Corinthian church concerning his words of rebuke
    in 1 Corinthians that he had sent to them concerning some particular sin(s).
    They really needed to be sorrowful and repent.

    “… the pain (from his rebuke) caused you to repent and change your ways. It was the kind of sorrow God wants His people to have, so you were not harmed by us in any way. For the kind of sorrow God wants us to experience leads us away from sin and results in salvation. … worldly sorrow, which lacks repentance, results in spiritual (eternal) death.”
    (2 Corinthians 7:8-10, NLT)

    “Yes, I am afraid that when I come again, God will humble me in your presence. And I will be grieved because many of you have not given up your old sins. You have not repented of your impurity, sexual immorality, and eagerness for lustful pleasure.” (2 Corinthians 12:21, NLT)


    Peter is warning believers about God’s destruction of all ungodly and unholy people:
    “Then he used the water to destroy the ancient (ungodly) world … the day of judgment, when ungodly people will be destroyed. … He is being patient for your sake. He does not want anyone to be destroyed (perish spiritually), but (he) wants everyone to repent. … what holy and godly lives you should live … (you) make every effort to be found living peaceful lives that are pure and blameless in his sight. … I am warning you ahead of time … Be on guard so that you will not be carried away by the errors …” (2 Peter 3:6-17, NLT)

    John gives the condition for the Lord to forgive believers’ present sins:
    “But if we confess our sins to him, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins
    and to cleanse us from all wickedness (unrighteousness).” (1 John 1:9, NLT)

    “This is an extremely important verse … all men need to be repeatedly purified from all unrighteousness – from all their sins … We must confess our sins and turn from them …
    We must also confess them with our actions … (John) is talking here about repentance …
    we must hate our sins and turn from them. This is true repentance.”
    (The Applied New Testament Commentary; Dr. Thomas Hale)


    2 verses later, John reminds believers to ask Jesus to plead our case before the Father:
    “My dear children, I am writing this to you so that you will not sin.
    But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate who pleads our case before the Father.
    He is Jesus Christ, the one who is truly righteous.” (1 John 2:1, NLT)


    Believers are responsible for repenting of their sins after they are born-again!
    They have been given the Holy Spirit, a totally new nature, and God’s word.
    So, they have been enabled to be victorious overcomers over sin, the world, and the devil.
    They have no excuse for failing to do this.
    Sounds like someone doesn't know how to rightly divide God's word.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by JudgeRightly View Post
      Sounds like someone doesn't know how to rightly divide God's word.
      He needs a new Bible, too.

      NLT

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by JudgeRightly View Post
        Sounds like someone doesn't know how to rightly divide God's word.
        Are you afraid to tackle the verses in the OP?
        "Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey,
        you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether
        (slaves) of sin leading to (eternal) death, OR
        (slaves) of obedience leading to righteousness?" (Romans 6:16)

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by ZacharyB View Post
          Are you afraid to tackle the verses in the OP?
          Discussing verses won't go anywhere with this topic. Revising your paradigm of thinking will. So unless you're willing to take a step back and get a bigger picture, I'm not willing to tackle the verses in the OP.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by JudgeRightly View Post
            Discussing verses won't go anywhere with this topic. Revising your paradigm of thinking will. So unless you're willing to take a step back and get a bigger picture, I'm not willing to tackle the verses in the OP.
            There are very few topics
            which seem to have 2 opposing sides,
            (with NT verses on each side),
            that I cannot RECONCILE.
            How about thou?
            "Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey,
            you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether
            (slaves) of sin leading to (eternal) death, OR
            (slaves) of obedience leading to righteousness?" (Romans 6:16)

            Comment


            • #7
              Is repentance a single action or a continual action? Or is the word used with both meanings and people sometimes confuse the two?

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by ZacharyB View Post
                There are very few topics which seem to have 2 opposing sides,
                There are plenty of topics that have two opposing sides. Baptism required or not, tithing required or not, saved by works+faith or by faith only, when will the rapture be, will there be a rapture, and many more which I don't have the time to list here.

                (with NT verses on each side), that I cannot RECONCILE.
                And therein lies the problem. You have to reconcile verses with other verses that don't fit. Your paradigm won't allow you to do otherwise.

                How about thou?
                I just read the Bible as is, I let it say what it says, instead of trying to force everything to say the same thing.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Rosenritter View Post
                  Is repentance a single action or a continual action?
                  Or is the word used with both meanings and people sometimes confuse the two?
                  Repentance is required initially to receive the Holy Spirit.
                  (Some people call this the born-again experience.)
                  Then repentance of future sins is also required,
                  but having the correct heart attitude towards sin
                  is the most important thing.
                  IOW, repenting perfectly is not necessary.
                  Also, those who love Jesus will obey is commandments
                  (see all of John 14).
                  Who gets to heaven who doesn't love Jesus?
                  "Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey,
                  you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether
                  (slaves) of sin leading to (eternal) death, OR
                  (slaves) of obedience leading to righteousness?" (Romans 6:16)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by JudgeRightly View Post
                    I just read the Bible as is, I let it say what it says,
                    instead of trying to force everything to say the same thing.
                    IMO, those like you tend to reject one set of verses in favor of your favorite ones.
                    But, for example ...
                    The John 3:16 type of verses can be reconciled with
                    those verses that warn of losing salvation.
                    "Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey,
                    you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether
                    (slaves) of sin leading to (eternal) death, OR
                    (slaves) of obedience leading to righteousness?" (Romans 6:16)

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by ZacharyB View Post
                      Repentance is required initially to receive the Holy Spirit.
                      Some people repented and were baptized and YET had not received the Holy Spirit. Acts 19:1-7
                      All of my ancestors are human.
                      Originally posted by Squeaky
                      That explains why your an idiot.
                      Originally posted by God's Truth
                      Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
                      Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
                      (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

                      1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
                      (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

                      Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by ZacharyB View Post
                        IMO, those like you tend to reject one set of verses in favor of your favorite ones.
                        But, for example ...
                        The John 3:16 type of verses can be reconciled with
                        those verses that warn of losing salvation.
                        Duh... those verses belong to the same dispensation.
                        All of my ancestors are human.
                        Originally posted by Squeaky
                        That explains why your an idiot.
                        Originally posted by God's Truth
                        Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
                        Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
                        (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

                        1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
                        (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

                        Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by ZacharyB View Post
                          IMO, those like you tend to reject one set of verses in favor of your favorite ones.
                          But, for example ...
                          The John 3:16 type of verses can be reconciled with those verses that warn of losing salvation.
                          I think you need to look in the mirror.

                          I don't reject ANY verses. I accept them all to mean EXACTLY WHAT THEY SAY, without trying to force a belief into the passage to make it say something that fits my beliefs.

                          Some verses, meaning exactly what they say, say that one can lose his salvation. Other verses, which mean exactly what they say, say that one can never lose his salvation.

                          The difference between you and I is that you try to shoehorn your beliefs into some scriptures by using other scriptures as your foundation. I simply take scripture at face value.

                          To solve your problem requires not just a few key verses, but an entire shift in your thinking, a paradigm shift from thinking that somehow the entire Bible says the same thing, to acknowledging that it says different things at different times to different peoples. The problem with that is that I can't do it for you. You have to be the one to shift your thinking.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by JudgeRightly View Post
                            ... acknowledging that it says different things at different times to different peoples.
                            IMO, this would mean that some verses must contradict other verses.
                            Verses for baby believers vs. verses for deeper believers.
                            Nah, sorry, reconciliation over misunderstanding.

                            Shallow misunderstanding results in perceived drastically opposed verses.
                            Most of your issues in post #8 are shallow issues - misunderstandings!
                            "Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey,
                            you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether
                            (slaves) of sin leading to (eternal) death, OR
                            (slaves) of obedience leading to righteousness?" (Romans 6:16)

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by ZacharyB View Post
                              Repentance is required initially to receive the Holy Spirit.
                              Repentance is the firstfruit of faith. Faith and repentance, two sides of the one coin of regeneration.

                              AMR
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