Those who have faith in Christ Jesus are the bride of Christ.
(Eph 5:25) Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her
The church is a "her", the bride of Christ.
ECT If you want out of the deceptions of MAD read the rebuttal of Bullinger by Ironside.
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Those who have faith in Christ Jesus are the bride of Christ.
(Eph 5:25) Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her
The church is a "her", the bride of Christ.
Nowhere in your long post does it say where and/or when Israel was "cut off".
Please tell us?
Lon
Well-known member
Romans 10:11,13 2 Timothy 2:13 Psalm 25:3 John 6:37
Broken Branches...
Temporary... You didn't read my post...
Have this for your lack of effort!
Language Warning!!!
Spoiler
(Rom 11:12 KJV) Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?
3 groups of people
1) Them/their
2) The world
3) The Gentiles
* a better translation for " the Gentiles" is "the Nations".
3 groups of people
1) Them/their
2) The world
3) The Gentiles
* a better translation for " the Gentiles" is "the Nations".
You are seriously RETARDED!!! I'm amazed!
Acts 7 (NKJV)
Stephen’s Address: The Call of Abraham
1 Then the high priest said, “Are these things so?”
2 And he said, “Brethren and fathers, listen: The God of glory appeared to our father Abraham when he was in Mesopotamia, before he dwelt in Haran, 3 and said to him, ‘Get out of your country and from your relatives, and come to a land that I will show you.’[a] 4 Then he came out of the land of the Chaldeans and dwelt in Haran. And from there, when his father was dead, He moved him to this land in which you now dwell. 5 And God gave him no inheritance in it, not even enough to set his foot on. But even when Abraham had no child, He promised to give it to him for a possession, and to his descendants after him. 6 But God spoke in this way: that his descendants would dwell in a foreign land, and that they would bring them into bondage and oppress them four hundred years. 7 ‘And the nation to whom they will be in bondage I will judge,’ said God, ‘and after that they shall come out and serve Me in this place.’[c] 8 Then He gave him the covenant of circumcision; and so Abraham begot Isaac and circumcised him on the eighth day; and Isaac begot Jacob, and Jacob begot the twelve patriarchs.
The Patriarchs in Egypt
9 “And the patriarchs, becoming envious, sold Joseph into Egypt. But God was with him 10 and delivered him out of all his troubles, and gave him favor and wisdom in the presence of Pharaoh, king of Egypt; and he made him governor over Egypt and all his house. 11 Now a famine and great trouble came over all the land of Egypt and Canaan, and our fathers found no sustenance. 12 But when Jacob heard that there was grain in Egypt, he sent out our fathers first. 13 And the second time Joseph was made known to his brothers, and Joseph’s family became known to the Pharaoh. 14 Then Joseph sent and called his father Jacob and all his relatives to him, seventy-five[d] people. 15 So Jacob went down to Egypt; and he died, he and our fathers. 16 And they were carried back to Shechem and laid in the tomb that Abraham bought for a sum of money from the sons of Hamor, the father of Shechem.
God Delivers Israel by Moses
17 “But when the time of the promise drew near which God had sworn to Abraham, the people grew and multiplied in Egypt 18 till another king arose who did not know Joseph. 19 This man dealt treacherously with our people, and oppressed our forefathers, making them expose their babies, so that they might not live. 20 At this time Moses was born, and was well pleasing to God; and he was brought up in his father’s house for three months. 21 But when he was set out, Pharaoh’s daughter took him away and brought him up as her own son. 22 And Moses was learned in all the wisdom of the Egyptians, and was mighty in words and deeds.
23 “Now when he was forty years old, it came into his heart to visit his brethren, the children of Israel. 24 And seeing one of them suffer wrong, he defended and avenged him who was oppressed, and struck down the Egyptian. 25 For he supposed that his brethren would have understood that God would deliver them by his hand, but they did not understand. 26 And the next day he appeared to two of them as they were fighting, and tried to reconcile them, saying, ‘Men, you are brethren; why do you wrong one another?’ 27 But he who did his neighbor wrong pushed him away, saying, ‘Who made you a ruler and a judge over us? 28 Do you want to kill me as you did the Egyptian yesterday?’ [e] 29 Then, at this saying, Moses fled and became a dweller in the land of Midian, where he had two sons.
30 “And when forty years had passed, an Angel of the Lord[f] appeared to him in a flame of fire in a bush, in the wilderness of Mount Sinai. 31 When Moses saw it, he marveled at the sight; and as he drew near to observe, the voice of the Lord came to him, 32 saying, ‘I am the God of your fathers—the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.’ [g] And Moses trembled and dared not look. 33 ‘Then the Lord said to him, “Take your sandals off your feet, for the place where you stand is holy ground. 34 I have surely seen the oppression of My people who are in Egypt; I have heard their groaning and have come down to deliver them. And now come, I will send you to Egypt.”’ [h]
35 “This Moses whom they rejected, saying, ‘Who made you a ruler and a judge?’ is the one God sent to be a ruler and a deliverer by the hand of the Angel who appeared to him in the bush. 36 He brought them out, after he had shown wonders and signs in the land of Egypt, and in the Red Sea, and in the wilderness forty years.
Israel Rebels Against God
37 “This is that Moses who said to the children of Israel,[j] ‘The Lord your God will raise up for you a Prophet like me from your brethren. Him you shall hear.’ [k]
38 “This is he who was in the congregation in the wilderness with the Angel who spoke to him on Mount Sinai, and with our fathers, the one who received the living oracles to give to us, 39 whom our fathers would not obey, but rejected. And in their hearts they turned back to Egypt, 40 saying to Aaron, ‘Make us gods to go before us; as for this Moses who brought us out of the land of Egypt, we do not know what has become of him.’[l] 41 And they made a calf in those days, offered sacrifices to the idol, and rejoiced in the works of their own hands. 42 Then God turned and gave them up to worship the host of heaven, as it is written in the book of the Prophets:
‘Did you offer Me slaughtered animals and sacrifices during forty years in the wilderness,
O house of Israel?
43 You also took up the tabernacle of Moloch,
And the star of your god Remphan,
Images which you made to worship;
And I will carry you away beyond Babylon.’[m]
God’s True Tabernacle
44 “Our fathers had the tabernacle of witness in the wilderness, as He appointed, instructing Moses to make it according to the pattern that he had seen, 45 which our fathers, having received it in turn, also brought with Joshua into the land possessed by the Gentiles, whom God drove out before the face of our fathers until the days of David, 46 who found favor before God and asked to find a dwelling for the God of Jacob. 47 But Solomon built Him a house.
48 “However, the Most High does not dwell in temples made with hands, as the prophet says:
49 ‘Heaven is My throne,
And earth is My footstool.
What house will you build for Me? says the Lord,
Or what is the place of My rest?
50 Has My hand not made all these things?’[n]
Israel Resists the Holy Spirit
51 “You stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears! You always resist the Holy Spirit; as your fathers did, so do you. 52 Which of the prophets did your fathers not persecute? And they killed those who foretold the coming of the Just One, of whom you now have become the betrayers and murderers, 53 who have received the law by the direction of angels and have not kept it.”
Stephen the Martyr
54 When they heard these things they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed at him with their teeth. 55 But he, being full of the Holy Spirit, gazed into heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God, 56 and said, “Look! I see the heavens opened and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God!”
57 Then they cried out with a loud voice, stopped their ears, and ran at him with one accord; 58 and they cast him out of the city and stoned him. And the witnesses laid down their clothes at the feet of a young man named Saul. 59 And they stoned Stephen as he was calling on God and saying, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.” 60 Then he knelt down and cried out with a loud voice, “Lord, do not charge them with this sin.” And when he had said this, he fell asleep.
Lon
Well-known member
I thought it fitting to use half of the verses as Romans. Normally, we are talking about Systematic Theologies 'within' Christian orthodoxy. I realize some of this may indeed cross the 'salvation' barrier, but for my part, scriptures are important.
From what I understand:
1) There are MAD and MAD/OV combinations represented on TOL. It seems, like Danoh suggests, we cannot address all of them in a lump sum without doing a disservice, whatever our concern. I'm a Calvinist, so greatly empathize with this need to understand each in their own context.
2) I couldn't be Dispensational any longer. I realized Acts 2 wasn't consistent enough and was full of holes. For me, Covenant fit what I was reading and understanding in scripture, though I'd have thought I was a New Covenant/Dispensational hybrid even when I first came to TOL.
MAD and TOL have helped me to think more clearly about how my scriptural understanding fits together.
3) MAD is a service to me. As simple as it is, I think it a good place to start understanding, as a gentile, what God expects of us. In a lot of ways, the simple message is what all need in Christ: To know salvation is a simple and complete trust in Christ alone (sola Fide - faith alone; sola Gratia - by grace alone; solus Christus - through Christ alone). I unequivocally believe in the 5 solas, even up against others not MAD.
MAD, imho, is so clearly forward and child-like in faith, I admire it for the stance on the 5 Solas. In and of that, MAD is as Reformed as the best of us, imho.
4) I read these threads, but don't often get involved. To me, it is 'infighting' rather than "us/them." I count you all my brothers and sisters in Christ unless the Lord shows me differently. I'd rather err on the side of grace, wholly believing the scriptures I posted, that all who call on Him will not be ashamed. I'm okay with disagreement and understand that others have a lot more at stake as well as see the difference as salvific. To me, the discussion is good and I have some of the same concerns about MAD, not as adverse, just that it doesn't fit for my scriptural understanding, mostly as far as eschatology and history rewrite. Imho, such differences don't really touch trust and faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.
5) Maybe start a thread: MAD, what do you love and embrace about the Lord Jesus Christ, His teaching, ministry, and salvation?
I think they love and embrace a lot more than might be surmised. I don't know of one MAD that doesn't love the Lord Jesus Christ, value and read everything about Him and what He says.
6) If I weren't Covenant, even with the problems I see with MAD, I'd have embraced it simply because, to me, it embraces the 5 solas and stands very firm on them.
7) In some ways, I 'think' some of the contention is moot: MAD only believes one gospel exists today. "Good news" is that the Lord Jesus Christ is able to save to the uttermost those who are perishing. Hebrews 7:25
So... per my Long exegesis... Israel of Blood... Romans 9, Romans 10... and by Romans 11:12... still talking about the people Paul is pining to be saved!
His Kinsmen...
Romans 11:1 I ask, then, has God rejected his people? By no means! For I myself am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, a member of the tribe of Benjamin
As in... Romans 11:13 specifically makes a shift to Gentiles! He literally is differentiating and you missed it because you don't read a word posted to you!
:doh:
Spoiler
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Get a clue Tard!
We are the "Body of Christ". We are already "Bound to Him" and return with Him per Thessalonians. Yet He's headed towards a "Bride"...
Would you like to buy a clue? Jude 9
Would you like another clue? Re read Hosea!
Who are the 3 groups of people in Romans 11:12?
LOL.....You Darby Followers actually believe that you're going to come back to planet earth with Jesus, and rule the Jews with Him.
And you make fun of the Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses.....
Is there anything that you read without misunderstanding it and screwing it up?
You can't even read what I write and get it right.
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You and Namg have something in common. This reminds me of that free Will thread. No matter how thoroughly your answered you pretend you weren't rebutted.
How cute!
You haven't answered anything.
All you did was provide verses that refuted your claims.
You haven't told us when Israel was allegedly "cut off", nor have you told us who the 3 groups of people are in Romans 11:12
Nang
TOL Subscriber
You must be MAD to believe such!
MAD is a false gospel, through and through, and they hatefully exhibit the attitude of Anti-Christ towards those of the Reformed faith who truly hold to the biblical principles of the 5 Solas.
MADists do not even hold to the entire Holy Scriptures, let alone the foundational principles found in Genesis through Revelation.
How you see differently, is beyond me . . especially after all the years you have been guided by and have professed sharing faith with those of us in the Reformed faith.
There is no meeting of minds between the two camps.
MADists are an exact anti-thesis to the Reformed believers.
:shocked:
Lon
Well-known member
I started looking, when I was talking to Hilston. Though He is somewhat Calvinistic in sympathies, he is MAD. Because of that, about 12 years ago, I began reading more of these threads and simply trying to find commonalities.
I think it'd be surprising to see answers to the following OP's/Questions for MAD:
1) How many gospels today? What is/are they?
2) Does MAD embrace the 5 solas, and is it true that you adhere to them more than many others do?
3) What do you love about thse Lord Jesus Christ?
4) What are some of the things the Lord Jesus Christ spoke of, that apply to your life? Which have you memorized?
5) While you disagree with Reformed theology, are they brothers and sisters in Christ if they trust in the saving work of Christ?
Now, I know some of them also disagree that 'we' are saved as well. I 'think' an attack from another supposed brother or sister in Christ, causes a knee-jerk reaction of "then you aren't saved either!" I believe it is reactionary, however, because Christ saves. I am very convinced that no matter where a person is at, if they call on and trust in the saving work of Christ, they are His. -Lon
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