ECT If you want out of the deceptions of MAD read the rebuttal of Bullinger by Ironside.

[steko]

Steko, the dispensation given to Paul was GRACE not a time period ! Re-read it !

I never said otherwise.

 

[tetelestai]

are we lost.

Like I said, if you guys would stop being Darby Followers, you guys wouldn't be so insecure about your faith.

 

[tetelestai]

I never said otherwise.

The only thing funnier than Dispensationalists denying that Dispensationalism was invented by Darby, is when Dispies deny that Dispensations are time periods.

Here is what Cyrus Scofield (Darby's protege) had to say:

"A dispensation is a period of time during which man is tested in respect of obedience to some specific revelation of the will of God" - Dr. C.I. Scofield (Scofield Reference Bible, p. 5)

How much denial can a Darby Follower have?

 

[john w]

Get saved heretic.

Funny, devil child, fraud "former Marine," and shuck your sorcery, Elymas, who is actually just a 16 year old punk.

And quit imitating my "get saved" directive, as you can't pull it off like me, snot faced satanist.

 

[john w]

Like I said, if you guys would stop being Darby Followers, you guys wouldn't be so insecure about your faith.

Since you assert that MADISTS deny the New Covenant, and "slap Christ," and "deny what Jesus accomplished on the cross," are we lost?

Come on, wimpy Russell/Josephus/pope/ follower-address your own argument, you weasel.


As I predicted,....watch the punt from the spineless sissy.who has no purpose, on TOL....Watch...


Craigie: You can slap Christ in the face, deny what he accomplished on the cross, and be saved!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[tetelestai]

are we lost?

I feel bad for you guys.

 

[steko]

The only thing funnier than Dispensationalists denying that Dispensationalism was invented by Darby, is when Dispies deny that Dispensations are time periods.

Here is what Cyrus Scofield (Darby's protege) had to say:

"A dispensation is a period of time during which man is tested in respect of obedience to some specific revelation of the will of God" - Dr. C.I. Scofield (Scofield Reference Bible, p. 5)

How much denial can a Darby Follower have?

That's Scofield's opinion. Most dispensational writers since Scofield disagree with that notion.

But.....you'll repeat it again and again, 'cause....you're a machine.

 

[john w]

Like I said, if you guys would stop being Darby Followers, you guys wouldn't be so insecure about your faith.

Craigie: You can slap Christ in the face, deny what he accomplished on the cross, and be saved!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[tetelestai]

That's Scofield's opinion. Most dispensational writers since Scofield disagree with that notion.

But.....you'll repeat it again and again, 'cause....you're a machine.

How are they not time periods?

Do they have a beginning and an end?

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

Quit being a follower of John Nelson Darby, and you won't be so insecure about your salvation.

Made this for you!

It took me a bunch of work... but it's for you! You won't understand it... but it is Romans 9-11 as promised!

Romans 9-11 disproves your LIES, and you can click on this statement to see how

 

[tetelestai]

Made this for you!

It took me a bunch of work... but it's for you! You won't understand it... but it is Romans 9-11 as promised!

Romans 9-11 disproves your LIES, and you can click on this statement to see how

Can you show us where and/or when "Israel was cut off" in the New Testament?

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

I feel bad for you guys.

Get saved heretic.

Language Warning ... And Reply

Spoiler

 

[john w]

Craigie: You can slap Christ in the face, deny what he accomplished on the cross, and be saved!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No, punk, we are not "insecure about our faith, " jelly fish. You made the assertion, that we/other deny the NC. So, sweetie, eternal lives are at stake. Don't you care whether others are saved, are are you such an obsessed with dispensationalism lunatic, demon, you can't think straight?


Answer the question, based upon your assertion/argument:Can one "slap Christ, deny what he accomplished on the cross, and be saved.


You sissy.

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

Can you show us where and/or when "Israel was cut off" in the New Testament?

You're an IDIOT... I took the time to write this out... the least you could do is read it, before you crap all over it with your lies! I know I shouldn't repost this, as it is long as goodness, but the record needs to show how thoroughly rebutted you have been all along, and in this post too... while you just move on quoting your commentaries and lying about the truth!

I don't know how [MENTION=1851]john w[/MENTION] has the patience to treat you with so much respect! I'm not joking either! You are a head case, and your theology is garbage... on this topic!

Oh, and it's garbage on the whole ... Spineless for loved ones thing too!

Redundancy and usage to be used for Notes and exegesis.

Spoiler

Romans 9

Israel’s Rejection of Christ <--(Sub Heading says ... LITERAL ISRAEL)

I tell the truth in Christ, I am not lying, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Spirit, 2 that I have great sorrow and continual grief in my heart. 3 For I could wish that I myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my countrymen according to the flesh, 4 who are Israelites, to whom pertain the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the service of God, and the promises; 5 of whom are the fathers and from whom, according to the flesh, Christ came, who is over all, the eternally blessed God. Amen.

Israel’s Rejection and God’s Purpose

6 But it is not that the word of God has taken no effect. For they are not all Israel who are of Israel, 7 nor are they all children because they are the seed of Abraham; but, “In Isaac your seed shall be called.” 8 That is, those who are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God; but the children of the promise are counted as the seed. 9 For this is the word of promise: “At this time I will come and Sarah shall have a son.”

10 And not only this, but when Rebecca also had conceived by one man, even by our father Isaac 11 (for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls), 12 it was said to her, “The older shall serve the younger.” 13 As it is written, “Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated.”

Israel’s Rejection and God’s Justice

14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? Certainly not! 15 For He says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassion.” 16 So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy. 17 For the Scripture says to the Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I may show My power in you, and that My name may be declared in all the earth.”[g] 18 Therefore He has mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens.

19 You will say to me then, “Why does He still find fault? For who has resisted His will?” 20 But indeed, O man, who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed say to him who formed it, “Why have you made me like this?” 21 Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor?

22 What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23 and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory, 24 even us whom He called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

25 As He says also in Hosea:

“I will call them My people, who were not My people,
And her beloved, who was not beloved.”
26 “And it shall come to pass in the place where it was said to them,
‘You are not My people,’
There they shall be called sons of the living God.”
27 Isaiah also cries out concerning Israel:

“Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea,
The remnant will be saved.
28 For He will finish the work and cut it short in righteousness,
Because the Lord will make a short work upon the earth.”
29 And as Isaiah said before:

“Unless the Lord of Sabaoth had left us a seed,
We would have become like Sodom,
And we would have been made like Gomorrah.”
Present Condition of Israel
30 What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness of faith; 31 but Israel, pursuing the law of righteousness, has not attained to the law of righteousness. 32 Why? Because they did not seek it by faith, but as it were, by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumbling stone. 33 As it is written:

“Behold, I lay in Zion a stumbling stone and rock of offense,
And whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.”​

Spoiler

Romans 10(NKJV)

Israel Needs the Gospel

10 Brethren, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for Israel is that they may be saved. 2 For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge. 3 For they being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and seeking to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted to the righteousness of God. 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

5 For Moses writes about the righteousness which is of the law, “The man who does those things shall live by them.” 6 But the righteousness of faith speaks in this way, “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’”(that is, to bring Christ down from above) 7 or, “‘Who will descend into the abyss?’” (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead). 8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach): 9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. 13 For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”

Israel Rejects the Gospel

14 How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach unless they are sent? As it is written:

“How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the gospel of peace,
Who bring glad tidings of good things!”
16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?” 17 So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

18 But I say, have they not heard? Yes indeed:

“Their sound has gone out to all the earth,
And their words to the ends of the world.”
19 But I say, did Israel not know? First Moses says:

“I will provoke you to jealousy by those who are not a nation,
I will move you to anger by a foolish nation.”
20 But Isaiah is very bold and says:

“I was found by those who did not seek Me;
I was made manifest to those who did not ask for Me.”
21 But to Israel he says:

“All day long I have stretched out My hands
To a disobedient and contrary people.”

Spoiler

Romans 11 (NKJV)

Israel’s Rejection Not Total

I say then, has God cast away His people? Certainly not! For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 2 God has not cast away His people whom He foreknew. Or do you not know what the Scripture says of Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel, saying, 3 “Lord, they have killed Your prophets and torn down Your altars, and I alone am left, and they seek my life”? 4 But what does the divine response say to him? “I have reserved for Myself seven thousand men who have not bowed the knee to Baal.” 5 Even so then, at this present time there is a remnant according to the election of grace. 6 And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace.[c] But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work.

7 What then? Israel has not obtained what it seeks; but the elect have obtained it, and the rest were blinded. 8 Just as it is written:

“God has given them a spirit of stupor,
Eyes that they should not see
And ears that they should not hear,
To this very day.”
9 And David says:

“Let their table become a snare and a trap,
A stumbling block and a recompense to them.
10 Let their eyes be darkened, so that they do not see,
And bow down their back always.”

Israel’s Rejection Not Final

11 I say then, have they stumbled that they should fall? Certainly not! But through their fall, to provoke them to jealousy, salvation has come to the Gentiles. 12 Now if their fall is riches for the world, and their failure riches for the Gentiles, how much more their fullness!

13 For I speak to you Gentiles; inasmuch as I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry, 14 if by any means I may provoke to jealousy those who are my flesh and save some of them. 15 For if their being cast away is the reconciling of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead?

16 For if the firstfruit is holy, the lump is also holy; and if the root is holy, so are the branches. 17 And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them became a partaker of the root and fatness of the olive tree, 18 do not boast against the branches. But if you do boast, remember that you do not support the root, but the root supports you.

19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in.” 20 Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either. 22 Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness,if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. 24 For if you were cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, who are natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?

25 For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. 26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written:

“The Deliverer will come out of Zion,
And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;
27 For this is My covenant with them,
When I take away their sins.”
28 Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers. 29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. 30 For as you were once disobedient to God, yet have now obtained mercy through their disobedience, 31 even so these also have now been disobedient, that through the mercy shown you they also may obtain mercy. 32 For God has committed them all to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all.

33 Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and His ways past finding out!

34 “For who has known the mind of the Lord?
Or who has become His counselor?”
35 “Or who has first given to Him
And it shall be repaid to him?”
36 For of Him and through Him and to Him are all things, to whom be glory forever. Amen.

Romans 9:3 For I could wish that I myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my countrymen according to the flesh, 4 who are Israelite's, to whom pertain the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the service of God, and the promises; 5 of whom are the fathers and from whom, according to the flesh, Christ came, who is over all, the eternally blessed God. Amen.​

Paul immediately identifies that there are still "ISRAELITE'S", and that HE wished HE could take their place in being separated from "whom, according to the flesh, Christ Came, who is over all, the eternally blessed God"

Right from the jump... Paul identifies National Israel... unless one would like to dispute that Jesus was born of the lineage of "National Israel".

6 But it is not that the word of God has taken no effect. For they are not all Israel who are of Israel, 7 nor are they all children because they are the seed of Abraham; but, “In Isaac your seed shall be called.” 8 That is, those who are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God; but the children of the promise are counted as the seed. 9 For this is the word of promise: “At this time I will come and Sarah shall have a son.”​

Paul is already setting up for Romans 11 and distinguishing the Age of Grace offering to the Gentiles that is available, because of the "Grafting"... and "Removal".

There is no mistake that Paul is foreshadowing the Union of the "Body of Christ" with the "Body of Moses / Bride of Christ".

If anyone thinks this has happened yet... they are in denial of world events and the literal presence of "DEATH".

Romans 10:1 Brethren, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for Israel is that they may be saved. 2 For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge. 3 For they being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and seeking to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted to the righteousness of God. 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.​

Paul is aching for the salvation of LITERAL Israel and identifies it with the fact that they are zealous for the LAW, but not submitted to "Christ". This is Blood and Nation... Jacob's children... ISRAEL!

5 For Moses writes about the righteousness which is of the law, “The man who does those things shall live by them.”

18 But I say, have they not heard? Yes indeed:

“Their sound has gone out to all the earth,
And their words to the ends of the world.”
19 But I say, did Israel not know? First Moses says:

“I will provoke you to jealousy by those who are not a nation,
I will move you to anger by a foolish nation.”
20 But Isaiah is very bold and says:

“I was found by those who did not seek Me;
I was made manifest to those who did not ask for Me.”
21 But to Israel he says:

“All day long I have stretched out My hands
To a disobedient and contrary people.”​

Who did Moses write to? Who are the "disobedient people"? Christ Rejecting Israel! When did this mount to a head? When Steven was stoned! It's so clear in context that to say any other thing is lunacy! Jews / Christ Rejecting Israel are a deep topic here! Paul is bringing us up to speed here!

Romans 11:1 Or do you not know what the Scripture says of Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel, saying, 3 “Lord, they have killed Your prophets and torn down Your altars, and I alone am left, and they seek my life”? 4 But what does the divine response say to him? “I have reserved for Myself seven thousand men who have not bowed the knee to Baal.” 5 Even so then, at this present time there is a remnant according to the election of grace. 6 And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work.​

Paul has just underlined GRACE! He is foreshadowing GRACE and using the Analogy of "Elijah"... who thought He was ALONE... and this analogy is to the Body of Christ / Grace age Gentiles!

Paul is sharing a Mystery with us that foreshadows... THAT WE ARE NOT THE ONLY BODY!

7 What then? Israel has not obtained what it seeks; but the elect have obtained it, and the rest were blinded. 8 Just as it is written:

“God has given them a spirit of stupor,
Eyes that they should not see
And ears that they should not hear,
To this very day.”​

Stupor, blindness... LIKE SAUL!!! What did it take to WAKE PAUL UP? The LORD Jesus Christ's Special intervention in HIS LIFE! The Jews haven't had their final "Road to Damascus" yet!

11 I say then, have they stumbled that they should fall? Certainly not! But through their fall, to provoke them to jealousy, salvation has come to the Gentiles. 12 Now if their fall is riches for the world, and their failure riches for the Gentiles, how much more their fullness!​

Now what? Paul is distinguishing Unbelieving Israel from GENTILES under GRACE! He even says that Israel will become Jealous... like a LOVER making His Bride Jealous... because she's been screwing around! If you don't get how that ties with the Gentiles and the book of Hosea... I can't help you!

God has His eye on His bride still! You don't think about a Lover's Jealousy, unless you intend to woo her BACK!

13 For I speak to you Gentiles; inasmuch as I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry, 14 if by any means I may provoke to jealousy those who are my flesh and save some of them. 15 For if their being cast away is the reconciling of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead?​

Here Paul is speaking of the DEAD's Acceptance of Jesus! Who's? Literal Israels! You have to deny all of 9 and 10 and everything before 13 to suggest otherwise! He is even saying that the Dead of Israel are different than the "Saved of the Grace Age"! Paul even suggests that they will have ACCEPTANCE in the FUTURE! Bet the next few verses are going to make this point razor sharp!

19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in.” 20 Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either.​

Here we have "Natural Branches" and "Grafted Branches" being discussed. Who is Natural? ISRAEL... Who is "Grafted" ... GENTILES. What does Paul WARN us NOT to DO... and then warn about the NATURAL BRANCHES broken off being way more difficult to God to "Break off", then casting aside... "Us Grafted Branches"..?

Paul says... Don't BE HAUGHTY! ... Like TET is being about ISRAEL by mocking them in their "shame". That's Jesus' bride! It's not wise to get in-between a man and HIS LOVE!

25 For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. 26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written:​

What's that? Israel is differentiated from GENTILES in VERSE 25 and the word... UNTIL is used in a POST "Pentecost" VERSE!

Do you understand TET? POST PENTECOST! That Pre-Terrorism Garbage is not recognizing the actual Time marking verbiage of Paul that coincides with Jesus!

Not to mention that this is foretelling the Acceptance of Israel and not the Destruction of Israel! This is about God's PROMISES, not the Hard hearted that refuse to forgive those that handed Jesus over to the Cross. We ALL did THAT... anyhow!

“The Deliverer will come out of Zion,

And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;
27 For this is My covenant with them,
When I take away their sins.”​

Had the quote said "Israel"... it would be a matter of strong argument... but it says ... JACOB! Gentiles are counted Seed of Isaac / Abraham... but this says... JACOB! There's no denying this! And Covenant is PROMISE! Our Lord, God, Jesus Christ never BREAKS THOSE!

28 Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers. 29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.​

There is no way to miss this! THEY are CHRIST REJECTING ISRAEL, AND THEY ARE ENEMIES OF THE GOSPEL... But Elected by FLESH / their FATHERS! ... and why does this matter?

Because!

"the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable."

Does God LIE TETTY?

30 For as you were once disobedient to God, yet have now obtained mercy through their disobedience, 31 even so these also have now been disobedient, that through the mercy shown you they also may obtain mercy. 32 For God has committed them all to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all.​

Here we have Paul reminding us that we were once outside of the PLAN of SALVATION, just as Israel is now... but LOOK How that TURNED OUT!

These words are POST GOSPEL! It would be wonderful if the Jews could accept Jesus, but not all do... and God is mapped out to HAVE a purpose for this! It's so clear that it is humorous that this is argued against!

33 Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and His ways past finding out!

34 “For who has known the mind of the Lord?
Or who has become His counselor?”
35 “Or who has first given to Him
And it shall be repaid to him?”
36 For of Him and through Him and to Him are all things, to whom be glory forever. Amen​

How does it finish? It finishes telling us that God's mind is HIS mind alone and only He has the right to "Judge"! Tetty... you judge GOD's Promise as "Revocable"...

Guess WHAT! Paul called and said... "Don't Be Haughty or Ignorant"... Here's a Mystery....

Translation!!! Stow your lies!

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

Fellow believers in what scripture has to say on this matter... I'm off for the night! Good on each of you for standing up for God's Bride, "the persistent widow", who is betrothed to OUR KING of Kings, Lord of lords and God of Gods... JESUS CHRIST!

 

[tetelestai]

You're an IDIOT...

Again, please show where and/or when, Israel was "cut off"?

Also, if your one of those Darby Followers who thinks Israel's "prophetic clock" was stopped in the first century, please tell us when that took place? (if different than above)

 

[john w]

Again, please show where and/or when, Israel was "cut off"?

Also, if your one of those Darby Followers who thinks Israel's "prophetic clock" was stopped in the first century, please tell us when that took place? (if different than above)

Answer the question, based upon your assertion/argument:Can one "slap Christ, deny what he accomplished on the cross, and be saved.

Let's go Josephus/Russell/pope follower.


The punk will not take me ion. He knows I've oute him as a satanic Jew Hater, deceiver, actress, habitual liar, weasel, and anti-Semite.

He shudders, when he sees I responded to his satanic Replacement "theology" trash.

 

[dodge]

Language Warning ... And Reply

Spoiler

lol, FMJ ! Now that there is funny stuff. The memories !

 

[john w]

The antiSemite, admitted Jew hater Craigie, is getting spanked, as usual.

Hey, Craigie!!! Let's review the "debate" you had with Hilston, shall we? No, you don't want that, as you got burried, cried, and ran away from the debate, and TOL laughed at you.


Poor weasel boy.

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

Again, please show where and/or when, Israel was "cut off"?

Also, if your one of those Darby Followers who thinks Israel's "prophetic clock" was stopped in the first century, please tell us when that took place? (if different than above)

Seriously...?

My reply to you from here on out...

# 1034

I'm glad you believe in Jesus! If I were your Heavenly Daddy... I would pull your teeth from your backside!