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Is Jesus God?

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  • First of all, knock it off with the weird colors, it makes it hard for me to read.

    Second, what are you even talking about? Money changers? What do they have to do with whether Keypurr is a cultist or not?

    Jesus would disagree whom... walked in to the temple and pulled out his whip to spanked those money exchangers! Do you really think He (jesus) was invited back by the likes of you?

    You speak as a child! Not knowing the love of GOD!


    Paul


    Knock it off with the high-and-mighty act.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Pierac View Post
      Because I'm telling you... how you fail to love... Really calling keypurr a cult is going to ...somehow open his mind???
      Would it be better to encourage a drug addict to continue doing drugs?

      Or would it be better to get the drug addict to stop doing drugs?

      Keypurr has become addicted to denying the deity of Christ, and you seem to have as well.

      You should stop taking the drug called "Jesus is not God" so that you don't harm yourself anymore.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Pierac View Post
        Jesus would disagree whom... walked in to the temple and pulled out his whip to spanked those money exchangers! Do you really think He (jesus) was invited back by the likes of you?

        You speak as a child! Not knowing the love of GOD!


        Paul
        As I said above...

        Originally posted by JudgeRightly View Post
        I would rather give Keypurr the benefit of the doubt and assume he is NOT saved, so that he does not, because I assumed he was, end up in Hell.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by 6days View Post
          The verses you use are great..... Your interpretation, not so much. Jesus had pre-existence... He is Holy... He is omnipotent, all-powerful... Is omnipresent... Jesus forgives sin... He is our Creator... He is our judge... He is the wonderful counsellor, the Prince of Peace, the everlasting father.....
          AND, God the Father called God the son "God"(Heb.1:8)... So it is likely a good idea for us to do likewise.
          I gave no interpretation? You only saw what you were told to believe!

          Scripture tells us that Jesus Christ “was foreknown before the foundation of the world, but has appeared in these last times” for our sakes who believe in God's word (1Pet. 1:20). This does not mean that Jesus personally preexisted his appearance on earth, because in the same chapter we find that Christians have also been in the “foreknowledge of God the Father” (1Pet. 1:2). The words “foreknowledge” and “foreknown,” noun and verb, are exactly alike. Peter uses precisely the same idea to refer to both Christians and Jesus. Christians do not preexisted heaven before our birth on earth nor did Jesus.

          Jesus never claimed credit for the original Genesis creation of the heavens and the earth.
          He was in no doubt that the universe was God's handiwork.

          Mat 19:4 He answered, "Have you not read that he (God) who created them from the beginning made them male and female,

          Remember Jesus has a God… "Blessed be God the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ (1 Peter 1:3). Yet for us there is but one God, the Father, (1Co 8:6)

          Mar 13:19 For in those days there will be such tribulation as has not been from the beginning of the creation that God (my Father) created until now, and never will be.

          Hebrews 11:3 By faith we understand that the worlds were prepared by the word(ῥῆμα/ rhēma)of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things which are visible.

          Please note that the word used here is not Logos as it is used in John 1 but rhēma.

          Observe in Colossians 1 that "all things" created are not “the heavens and the earth” as per Genesis 1:1, but rather “all things in the heavens and [up]on the earth." These things are defined as "thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities." Evidently, Jesus has been given authority to restructure the arrangements of angels as well as being the agent for the creation of the body of Christ on earth, the Church.

          This is the thought as we soon shall see in Hebrews 1 where the Angels are told to worship the Son. It is also the thought that Peter mentions in 1 Peter 3:21-22 where, after “the resurrection of Jesus Christ, who he is at the right hand of God, having gone into heaven, after angels and authorities and powers had been subjected to him, " it is the new Messianic order that God has brought in through Christ the Son that is under discussion. Just before his ascension into heaven at the father's right hand of power, Jesus declares that "all authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me" (Matt.28:18). His resurrection has Jesus a new status, "far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age, but also in the one to come" (Eph.1:21).

          All of this is to reiterate that this hymn of praise concerns the new order of things that now exist since the resurrection of the Son. An eschatological shift of the ages has begun with Christ’s exaltation to the Father's right hand. God has "put all things in subjection under his [the resurrected Christ’s] feet" (Eph. 1-22). Paul repeats this thought in the next chapter of Colossians: "and he is the head over [or of] all rule and authority" (Col 2:10). In the words we looked at in Philippians 2, God has rewarded Jesus’ obedient death on the cross by highly exalting him, and bestowing on him "the name which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee shall bow, of those who are in heaven, and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue shall confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father" (Phil 2:8-10).

          It is highly significant that in verse 18 Jesus attains to a supreme position, meaning that it he did not have it already. Thus he cannot have preexisted as God. If he did his final status would be more of a demotion than the promotion described by Paul.

          If Jesus was God in the flesh then it is impossible to be a man. He would have been something entirely else. Not a man. This is why Jesus has to learn wisdom, Luke 2:40, Luke 2:52. God is all knowing. He does not need to learn anything. Paul tells us Jesus is a priest after the order of Melchizedek, and something else.

          Heb 5:6 "You are a priest forever, after the order of Melchizedek." 5 In the days of his flesh, Jesus offered up prayers and supplications, with loud cries and tears, to him who was able to save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverence. 8 Although he was a son, he learned obedience through what he suffered.

          It is an insult to say that God learned obedience! Jesus learned obedience because he was a man, a man like you and me not a hybrid. Most fail to understand the concept of Agency. When you kiss the Agent of the one sent, you are actually kissing the one whom the Agent represents. When you worship Jesus you are actually worshiping the One who sent Him. Thus Jesus comments

          NASB Joh 8:42 Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and have come from God, for I have not even come on My own initiative, but He sent Me.

          Joh 12:49 "For I did not speak on My own initiative, but the Father Himself who sent Me has given Me a commandment as to what to say and what to speak.

          There is no God in the flesh hybrid (Theos aner) in these verses.

          If Jesus is already God in the flesh then He can not have a God because it would be two Gods not one. Yet, scripture clearly tell us he does have a God, both before and after His resurrection. Philippians 4:20; Ephesians 4:6; John 20:17; Matthew 27:46; Revelation 3:12; Revelation 3:2.

          One issue is God can not die. So if Jesus was God then he would have had to pretend to die and thus there would not be any forgiveness of sin because he really didn't die.

          Let's see who can forgive sins.

          Mat 9:2 And they brought to Him a paralytic lying on a bed. Seeing their faith, Jesus said to the paralytic, "Take courage, son; your sins are forgiven."

          Mat 9:6 "But so that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins"--then He said to the paralytic, "Get up, pick up your bed and go home."

          Mar 2:7 "Why does this man speak that way? He is blaspheming; who can forgive sins but God alone?"

          John 20:21 So Jesus said to them again, "Peace be with you; as the Father has sent Me, I also send you." 22 And when He had said this, He breathed on them and said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 "If you forgive the sins of any, their sins have been forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they have been retained."

          Jesus never forgave sins before He was anointed with God's Spirit. And now the Apostles have the ability to forgive sins, once again only after Jesus gave them the Holy Spirit. The Apostles are now Agents of Jesus the Christ and "have authority on earth to forgive sins". How? Because as the Father has sent Me, I also send you

          Hebrews 11:3 By faith we understand that the worlds were prepared by the word
          (ῥῆμα/ rhēma) of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things which are visible.

          Again please note that the word used here is not Logos.

          Eph 3:9 and to bring to light what is the administration of the mystery which for ages
          has been hidden in God who created all things;

          Rev 4:11 "Worthy are You, our Lord and our God, to receive glory and honor and
          power; for You created all things, and because of Your will they existed, and were
          created."

          Keep reading Rev 4:11 thru chap 5 and you will see the one lamb whom is worthy to approach our Lord and our God whom created all things! Yet...the lamb created nothing!

          Stop trying to read scripture into your teachings of men... read scripture out of GOD as intended!


          Paul
          Last edited by JudgeRightly; August 27th, 2019, 02:17 PM.
          From the cowardice that shrinks from new truth,
          From the laziness that is content with half-truths,
          From the arrogance that thinks it knows all truth,
          Oh God of Truth, deliver us.

          ~ Ancient Prayer

          Comment


          • Originally posted by JudgeRightly View Post
            As I said above...I would rather give Keypurr the benefit of the doubt and assume he is NOT saved, so that he does not, because I assumed he was, end up in Hell.
            What do you know of hell? You speak as a child! Hell is the grave... nothing more or less!!! Where all of man kind is going upon death! The Kingdom of God is different! The Kingdom is about which resurrection your in!!!


            Paul
            Last edited by JudgeRightly; August 27th, 2019, 02:23 PM.
            From the cowardice that shrinks from new truth,
            From the laziness that is content with half-truths,
            From the arrogance that thinks it knows all truth,
            Oh God of Truth, deliver us.

            ~ Ancient Prayer

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Pierac View Post
              What do you know of hell?
              Quite a lot.

              More than you, it seems.

              You speak as a child!
              Stop with the high and mighty act, or you'll be getting an infraction for being unnecessarily disruptive.

              Hell is the grave... nothing more or less!!! Where all of man kind is going upon death! The Kingdom of God is different! The Kingdom is about which resurrection your in!!!


              Paul
              Incorrect.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by pierac
                Scripture tells us that Jesus Christ “was foreknown before the foundation of the world, but has appeared in these last times” for our sakes who believe in God's word (1Pet. 1:20).
                Thanks for reply Pierac but I object to your style of using different versions to try slant things a certain way. I will respond but let's both use just one translation. Go ahead and pick any major modern translation where we can check qualifications on the team of translators.
                Originally posted by Pierac
                This does not mean that Jesus personally preexisted ....
                Wait..... You said "I gave no interpretation..."
                Without Genesis, absolutely nothing makes sense in all of Scripture.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by 6days View Post
                  Thanks for reply Pierac but I object to your style of using different versions to try slant things a certain way. I will respond but let's both use just one translation. Go ahead and pick any major modern translation where we can check qualifications on the team of translators.

                  Wait..... You said "I gave no interpretation..."


                  Originally posted by Pierac View Post
                  I gave no interpretation? You only saw what you were told to believe!
                  He thinks you accused him of not giving his interpretation of the passages.

                  But that's not what you challenged him on.

                  Here's what you actually said:

                  Originally posted by 6days View Post
                  The verses you use are great..... Your interpretation, not so much.
                  Calling, you guessed it, "his interpretation" not so great.

                  In other words, Pierac isn't really paying attention to what you're saying. He's just reacting to that which He thinks/wishes you had said.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Pierac View Post
                    Because I'm telling you... how you fail to love... Really calling keypurr a cult is going to ...somehow open his mind??? NO! You are blind to the truth! He sees what God wants him to see... just like you and me!

                    Don't be a A+ hole in all this!

                    Paul
                    See, this is ban-worthy. I'm not sure what passes as appropriate in your neck of the woods. You've always a basal mouth over these matters.

                    "Cult" simply means 'off shoot.' I realize it also has some poor connotations, but all Unitarians and Arians by organization, or individual carry the 'cult' label. I'm failing to see your complaint as reasonable. Have you never heard, honestly, that JW's, for example, are a cult? Mormons?

                    When I use it, I mean the 'small following' by the label. I mean 'not orthodox' as well. "If" such is offensive, the remedy must necessarily be stop being unorthodox and stop being in the minority, no?

                    Ephesians 4:29;5:4
                    My New Years Resolution: 1 Peter 3:15
                    Omniscient without man's qualification. John 1:3 "Nothing"
                    Colossians 1:17 "Nothing" John 15:5 "Nothing"
                    Mighty, ALL mighty (omnipotent). Revelation 1:8
                    No possible limitation Isaiah 40:25 Joshua 24:15
                    Infinite (Omnipresent) Psalm 145:3 Hebrews 4:13

                    ? Yep

                    Now to Him who is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think... Amen. -Ephesians 3:20 & 21

                    ... when I became an adult, I set aside childish ways. Titus 3:10 Ephesians 4:29-32; 5:11

                    Separation of church and State is not atheism "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights..."

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Lon View Post
                      See, this is ban-worthy. I'm not sure what passes as appropriate in your neck of the woods. You've always a basal mouth over these matters.
                      He already received an infraction for it.

                      "Cult" simply means 'off shoot.' I realize it also has some poor connotations, but all Unitarians and Arians by organization, or individual carry the 'cult' label. I'm failing to see your complaint as reasonable. Have you never heard, honestly, that JW's, for example, are a cult? Mormons?

                      When I use it, I mean the 'small following' by the label. I mean 'not orthodox' as well. "If" such is offensive, the remedy must necessarily be stop being unorthodox and stop being in the minority, no?

                      Ephesians 4:29;5:4
                      http://kgov.com/cults

                      Comment


                      • Acts 4:10-12 King James Version (KJV)
                        10 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.

                        11 This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.

                        12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

                        This is one of the clearest statements that sets forth the one and only way to salvation. Only Christ can save, for He both created and sustained all things. He Himself has made this plain (John 14:6). As offensive as it may be to non-Christians, we must continually make it clear in our witness to them, for without Christ they are lost and bound for hell (Henry Morris Study Bible)
                        Yes it is clear, Jesus is God.

                        Isaiah 43:11 King James Version (KJV)
                        11 I, even I, am the Lord; and beside me there is no saviour.

                        Hosea 13:4 King James Version (KJV)
                        4 Yet I am the Lord thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me: for there is no saviour beside me.
                        He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose.

                        Jim Elliot

                        Comment


                        • Jesus is God.

                          This scripture speaks of Jesus the Lord who was and is and is to come; and this scripture calls him God Almighty.

                          Revelation 4:8
                          And each of the four living creatures had six wings and was covered with eyes all around and within. Day and night they never stop saying: "Holy, Holy, Holy, is the Lord God Almighty, who was and is and is to come!"
                          Oh how I love the Word of God!

                          Do not just read the word do it.

                          Comment


                          • Jesus is a Creator Son of God, while here on earth he was both human and divine in one miraculous person. Jesus always spoke as being subject to the will of his Father while he himself is the Father of our creation. God the Father is our grandfather.

                            "Mortal man was never the property of the archdeceivers. Jesus did not die to ransom man from the clutch of the apostate rulers and fallen princes of the spheres. The Father in heaven never conceived of such crass injustice as damning a mortal soul because of the evil doing of his ancestors."UB

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Caino View Post
                              Jesus is a Creator Son of God, while here on earth he was both human and divine in one miraculous person. Jesus always spoke as being subject to the will of his Father while he himself is the Father of our creation. God the Father is our grandfather.
                              God the Father is our Father, not our "grandfather".
                              Oh how I love the Word of God!

                              Do not just read the word do it.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Caino View Post
                                Jesus is a Creator Son of God, while here on earth he was both human and divine in one miraculous person. Jesus always spoke as being subject to the will of his Father while he himself is the Father of our creation. God the Father is our grandfather.
                                You're just about there, it's a matter of semantics, and so it's a matter of a distorted thought. God "anthropomorphized" Himself. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthropomorphism We don't have to worry about improperly anthropomorphizing God, like every other Abrahamic religion does, God did that for us, and it shouldn't be surprising imo that it is a little complicated, but basically, God is the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, and the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Spirit is God, and the Father, Son, and Spirit are God. When Peter said Matthew 16:16 he was confessing the Trinity.
                                "Those who believe in Christ" are all the Christians, Catholic or not.

                                @Nee_Nihilo

                                Comment

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