The earth is flat and we never went to the moon--Part II

[DFT_Dave]

Good!

Because I'm quite likely to prove the Earth to be round with my own equipment.

The reason I asked was to gauge how married you were to the idea that the bible teaches the Earth to be flat (which it doesn't at all - by the way).

If the passages of scripture taught what you implied, your "No" answer would be the wrong answer. The point being, of course, that they do not teach what you imply and your unwillingness to hinge your faith on the idea that they do is proof that you know that they don't.

In fact, your use a scripture is akin to the way the Calvinists use scripture. It's irrational and ought to be offensive to any mind searching for the truth. Your own website is proof that you know better.


It affects the salvation of the lost who hear mindless Christian suggest the the Earth is flat and reject the whole thing based on their stupidity.

Further, Christianity absolutely is cosmology.

Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the Earth.

It goes on from there but that first sentence is a foundational one and it is undoubtedly a cosmological in nature, wouldn't you agree?


This is stupid, David. Not only is it a false premise but it would an irrelevant one anyway. I don't care who figured it out or what their motives where for doing the science. Facts are facts. The Earth either orbits the Sun or it doesn't. You don't reject facts of relativity based on who figured them out or why.


False premise. Copernicus is not anti-biblical. They two are not in conflict, as your "no" answer implies.


This sort of thinking is what got the inquisition started, David. You reject ideas/theories as false at the point at which they diverge from reality. That's what science is supposed to be about. You don't reject them based on their philosophical origins. Their origins may be a good reason to investigate their veracity but not reason enough to reject them.


No, it doesn't David. The idea of a flat earth has, in fact, been proven wrong several times on this thread alone not to mention over several centuries of history.


You're well past the consideration stage. You've bought this stupidity hook line and sinker.


It took me less than ten minutes to figure out the method. It's simple. If I was comfortable leaving a multi thousand dollar telescope unattended for anything length of time, I'd have done a long time ago.

Clete

I never interpreted the passages of scriptures that say the stars will fall to earth, I simply quoted scripture, because that's exactly what it says.

I never said that the scripture is without a cosmology, one can be saved if they believe in Flat Earth, Geocentrism, or Heliocentrism. To say you can't be saved unless you are Copernican Heliocentric is absurd.

My reasons for rejecting globe earth is not because of its philosophical origin. That globe earth has a Greek atheistic philosophical origin is an undisputed historical fact. That this view originates about 300 BC should be a clue to you that ancient Biblical cosmology being much older is not the origin of a globe earth. Which, by the way, means the Biblical cosmology has always been considered Flat Earth. I will forgive your ignorance on the matter since history, theology, and philosophy are not your expertise.

"The ancient Israelites envisaged a universe made up of a flat disc-shaped earth floating on water, heaven above, underworld below.[6] Humans inhabited earth during life and the underworld after death, and the underworld was morally neutral;[7] only in Hellenistic times (after c.330 BCE) did Jews begin to adopt the Greek idea that it would be a place of punishment for misdeeds, and that the righteous would enjoy an afterlife in heaven.[8] In this period too the older three-level cosmology in large measure gave way to the Greek concept of a spherical earth suspended in space at the center of a number of concentric heavens.[6]"--Wiki​

The spinning globe has never been "empirically verified" by examining earth itself. The people on earth see and experience a flat motionless plane. Alleged verification of a spinning globe has been made only by movement of stars, moon, and sun. That a spinning globe is verified by a space exploration government agency that forgot how to get back to the moon, a feat it supposedly accomplished six times without a hitch, is clearly a lie.

That the earth is motionless and flat to its inhabitants while the sun, moon, and stars move over it is an undeniable universal perception. All ships, cityscapes and landscapes, seen at great distances, are always perfectly perpendicular and not slanted away from the viewer which is another validation of a flat earth.

The spinning orbiting globe is an imagined theoretical construct that contradicts our God created perception. A humanity that questions it's created perception and rejects God's revelation is easy prey for Satanic deception.

P.S. and that water always moves to level, but not really, is the contradiction of all contradictions.

--Dave

 

[DFT_Dave]

Yes it is. But it takes time to develop the equipment that is capable of collecting the data. The ancient Greeks were the first to hypothesis the atom. In the early 1800's, the first evidence base hypothesis was put forward. The first time we actually saw an atom was in about 2013. That is roughly two hundred years to develop the equipment capable of seeing an atom. Did atom not exist until we developed the equipment to see it? Of course not! Same with cosmology. The hypothesis comes first, frequently from a mathematical model, and then the work begins to try to figure out how to create an experiment to confirm or refute the hypothesis. You seem to think that only one experiment is required to verify something. They never stop experimenting and that is how theories get refined and become more useful.

The problem is contradiction and circular reasoning.

Detected gravity waves in a particular place light years away from us in a universe where said waves are everywhere at all times is both contradictory and circular nonsense.

Deception is possible only when reason is discarded.

--Dave

 

[CabinetMaker]

The problem is contradiction and circular reasoning.

Detected gravity waves in a particular place light years away from us in a universe where said waves are everywhere at all times is both contradictory and circular nonsense.

Deception is possible only when reason is discarded.

--Dave

Is it easier to measure a larger wave or a smaller wave?

 

[DFT_Dave]

Is it easier to measure a larger wave or a smaller wave?

If such waves existed they would be detectable everywhere at all times, large or small.

--Dave

 

[Clete]

I never interpreted the passages of scriptures that say the stars will fall to earth, I simply quoted scripture, because that's exactly what it says.

Don't lie to me, David.

You quoted those passages in defense of a flat earth. No one here is so stupid as to have not gotten the point.

I never said that the scripture is without a cosmology, one can be saved if they believe in Flat Earth, Geocentrism, or Heliocentrism. To say you can't be saved unless you are Copernican Heliocentric is absurd.

I've never said anything like that. I simply was testing how married you are to this idiotic idea that the Bible teaches that the Earth is flat and that stars actually fall to the Earth.

My reasons for rejecting globe earth is not because of its philosophical origin. That globe earth has a Greek atheistic philosophical origin is an undisputed historical fact.

No, the reason people believe the Earth is flat is because it is, primarily but it really got it's groove on when Copernicus measured its circumference. That wasn't philosophy, it was science. He measured two angles and did the math. You could do the same this afternoon if you know someone 10-15° north or south of you who is willing to take the measurement and call you on the phone to give you the data.

That this view originates about 300 BC should be a clue to you that ancient Biblical cosmology being much older is not the origin of a globe earth. Which, by the way, means the Biblical cosmology has always been considered Flat Earth.

This is called an argument from silence. There are really good reasons why its considered irrational.

I will forgive your ignorance on the matter since history, theology, and philosophy are not your expertise.

You've got nuts talking to me about my ignorance, flat-earth boy!

"The ancient Israelites envisaged a universe made up of a flat disc-shaped earth floating on water, heaven above, underworld below.[6] Humans inhabited earth during life and the underworld after death, and the underworld was morally neutral;[7] only in Hellenistic times (after c.330 BCE) did Jews begin to adopt the Greek idea that it would be a place of punishment for misdeeds, and that the righteous would enjoy an afterlife in heaven.[8] In this period too the older three-level cosmology in large measure gave way to the Greek concept of a spherical earth suspended in space at the center of a number of concentric heavens.[6]"--Wiki​

Utterly irrelevant.

The Israelite's didn't get there ideas about such things from the bible nor from God.

The spinning globe has never been "empirically verified" by examining earth itself.

Yes it has.

The people on earth see and experience a flat motionless plane.

No, they don't.

Alleged verification of a spinning globe has been made only by movement of stars, moon, and sun.

YOU ARE OFFICIALLY STUPID!

Alleged?

It isn't alleged. It is, in fact, verification.

When you drive down the road past a bunch of trees, is it your car moving or the trees?

Are you sure? The stuff in your car doesn't go flying away. The steering wheel and seats all seem totally motionless. How do you know that its your car that moving and not the entire Earth beneath you being push by you spinning wheels?

If that sounds absurd, its because it is and it's exactly the same sort of nonsense you flat-earth morons what us all to think is happening with the Earth.

That a spinning globe is verified by a space exploration government agency that forgot how to get back to the moon, a feat it supposedly accomplished six times without a hitch, is clearly a lie.

That the earth is motionless and flat to its inhabitants while the sun, moon, and stars move over it is an undeniable universal perception. All ships, cityscapes and landscapes, seen at great distances, are always perfectly perpendicular and not slanted away from the viewer which is another validation of a flat earth.

The spinning orbiting globe is an imagined theoretical construct that contradicts our God created perception. A humanity that questions it's created perception and rejects God's revelation is easy prey for Satanic deception.

How can you not see this for the stupidity that it is. Why am I even bothering with this. I'm losing my mind even participating in this conversation. I'm talking about philosophy and cosmology with a lunatic!

P.S. and that water always moves to level, but not really, is the contradiction of all contradictions.

--Dave

What?

Now you're denying that water moves to level?

If it isn't level, what is it?



Somebody please just shoot me.


Clete

 

[patrick jane]

Flat Earth - ABSOLUTE MUST SEE!

Excerpt From Video Description : Since the beginning of the flat earth awakening there have been many attempts to model the motions of the heavens on top of flat projections. It gave us the circular model the square model and other projections like diamond. All have failed so far to make an accurate and verifiable model that shows what is actually going onup there. It is our research, modeling and experiments that have made it very clear to us that all current models are wrong.

The main reason for that is because they all start with the wrong premise that the tropics form the actual paths of the physical objects like the sun or moon. Most flat earthers also have very little hands on experience in astronomy and proper experiments which led to a immense pile of incorrect assumptions and false claims regarding their model commitment and bias towards their current held beliefs.

21 minutes It gets better after 5 minutes

 

[Stuu]

Here's a crushing video:

Stuart

 

[DFT_Dave]

Don't lie to me, David.

You quoted those passages in defense of a flat earth. No one here is so stupid as to have not gotten the point.

I've never said anything like that. I simply was testing how married you are to this idiotic idea that the Bible teaches that the Earth is flat and that stars actually fall to the Earth.

No, the reason people believe the Earth is flat is because it is, primarily but it really got it's groove on when Copernicus measured its circumference. That wasn't philosophy, it was science. He measured two angles and did the math. You could do the same this afternoon if you know someone 10-15° north or south of you who is willing to take the measurement and call you on the phone to give you the data.

This is called an argument from silence. There are really good reasons why its considered irrational.

You've got nuts talking to me about my ignorance, flat-earth boy!

Utterly irrelevant.

The Israelite's didn't get there ideas about such things from the bible nor from God.

Yes it has.

No, they don't.

YOU ARE OFFICIALLY STUPID!

Alleged?

It isn't alleged. It is, in fact, verification.

When you drive down the road past a bunch of trees, is it your car moving or the trees?

Are you sure? The stuff in your car doesn't go flying away. The steering wheel and seats all seem totally motionless. How do you know that its your car that moving and not the entire Earth beneath you being push by you spinning wheels?

If that sounds absurd, its because it is and it's exactly the same sort of nonsense you flat-earth morons what us all to think is happening with the Earth.

How can you not see this for the stupidity that it is. Why am I even bothering with this. I'm losing my mind even participating in this conversation. I'm talking about philosophy and cosmology with a lunatic!

What?

Now you're denying that water moves to level?

If it isn't level, what is it?

Somebody please just shoot me.

Clete

On a globe earth, water (rivers, lakes, oceans) are never level only on a flat earth is this possible.

I didn't use an argument from silence about the historic (not silent) fact that ancient Hebrew (Biblical) cosmology is flat motionless earth which is why I gave the "relevant" quote from Wiki. My argument was from your lack of knowledge on the matter.

Moving "in" a car is not the same thing as move while "on" the top of a moving car. We live "on" the earth we do not live "in" the earth. That the atmosphere is held in place by gravity is absurd since planes, birds, and clouds move freely through the atmosphere.

I've not called you by any derogatory name. I've argued on behalf of a belief against a counter belief. I hardly ever argue to the man. If I think an idea is irrational, illogical, or inconsistent I say so. We accept, in "civil" debate, that all ideas are not the man making them, and that all men have and will change a belief at one time or another which is why we don't call our opponent in a debate a stupid lunatic not worth debating. One could argue only a lunatic would debate another one.

--Dave

 

[CabinetMaker]

If such waves existed they would be detectable everywhere at all times, large or small.

--Dave

How do you detect a gravity wave?

 

[DFT_Dave]

Here's a crushing video:

Stuart

I've seen this video before. From 2:32 to 2:46 you can clearly see the point of origin of the lazar on the beach which would not be possible if there was a six foot drop, even at a 2' 7" height point of origin. At 2:46 and at 2:52, if you freeze it there, you can see from the point of origin that the beam is pointed at an angle upward and not even in the exact direction of the boat. It looks like they simply moved this beam to hit the mark they wanted.

Flat earth folk have traveled to the other side of a lake and have shown a laser beam to travel across it and hit a target at the exact same level which is possible only on a flat earth.

--Dave

 

[DFT_Dave]

How do you detect a gravity wave?

The question is not how can we detect gravity waves in general, the question is how can we detect these particular gravity waves in a specific place at a specific time many light years away when gravity waves are said to be everywhere in space at all times and yet be undetectable.

The contradiction and inconsistency is clear accept to to the irrationally minded cosmologist.

--Dave

 

[Stuu]

I've seen this video before. From 2:32 to 2:46 you can clearly see the point of origin of the lazar on the beach which would not be possible if there was a six foot drop, even at a 2' 7" height point of origin. At 2:46 and at 2:52, if you freeze it there, you can see from the point of origin that the beam is pointed at an angle upward and not even in the exact direction of the boat. It looks like they simply moved this beam to hit the mark they wanted.

Flat earth folk have traveled to the other side of a lake and have shown a laser beam to travel across it and hit a target at the exact same level which is possible only on a flat earth.

--Dave

And I guess the telescope was pointing up in the air when the helicopter was hidden, too.

Stuart

 

[DFT_Dave]

Flat earth laser test

Here is the good test for globe vs flat earth with a laser beam. Everyone watch and judge for yourself it's reliability and accuracy.

--Dave

 

[DFT_Dave]

And I guess the telescope was pointing up in the air when the helicopter was hidden, too.

Stuart

With the laser beam we can see from the boat to the origin and angle of the beam in order to make a commentary on what we see for our self without having to rely on someone else.

The view from the beach through the telescope does not confirm the height of the helicopter at that time. We cannot see from the video for our self without relying on someone else to tell us. We have no "visual" confirmation.

Earth curvature calculator says there would be 10 feet of hidden ground to height of target with view from 3 foot height (about the height of the telescope) to 6 mile distance. So how come they are 24 feet above the ground before they can be seen 6 miles away and not 10 feet above the ground?

There's something very fishy about these curvature tests over this lake. :think:

--Dave

 

[CabinetMaker]

The question is not how can we detect gravity waves in general, the question is how can we detect these particular gravity waves in a specific place at a specific time many light years away when gravity waves are said to be everywhere in space at all times and yet be undetectable.

The contradiction and inconsistency is clear accept to to the irrationally minded cosmologist.

--Dave

Equivocation is never a good tactic when you don't know the answer. Yes, the question is exactly how do we detect gravity waves in general. Scientists finally figured out a way to measure them. Next they needed a place to start looking which is why they chose a specific place to start looking. There is no inconsistency nor contradiction in their approach.

 

[DFT_Dave]

Equivocation is never a good tactic when you don't know the answer. Yes, the question is exactly how do we detect gravity waves in general. Scientists finally figured out a way to measure them. Next they needed a place to start looking which is why they chose a specific place to start looking. There is no inconsistency nor contradiction in their approach.

Science is doing the misleading, my argument exposes it.

Stars exist all over the place because we can detect/see them all over the place.

Gravity exists everywhere but we have only detected them in one place where it occurred at one time in the distant past light years ago.

That's equivocation, contradiction, and inconsistency from science.

--Dave

P.S. Imagine if one argued that stars were all over the place at all times but it could only be demonstrated that one star existed in the distance past in one place a long time ago.

 

[patrick jane]

Operation Fish Bowl PROVES Dome Firmament | FLAT EARTH UNIVERSITY 101

 

[patrick jane]

I know you've deceived me now here's surprise . .

This video is absolutely fascinating. The make a model of the solar system AND the orbits of the planets on a flat 7 mile space in the desert and show it from a mountain !!! TO SCALE !!!

Nobody has EVER seen or made a "To Scale" model of the solar system that I'm aware of. This is really worth watching and they show exactly how they do it. The action starts after a few minute introduction.

 

[chair]

DFT Dave is not a lunatic. Nor is he stupid. He is dishonest- first and foremost to himself, and then to others. Find some charitable work to do in your spare time, rather than 'argue' with him or his ilk.

 

[Stuu]

With the laser beam we can see from the boat to the origin and angle of the beam in order to make a commentary on what we see for our self without having to rely on someone else.

The view from the beach through the telescope does not confirm the height of the helicopter at that time. We cannot see from the video for our self without relying on someone else to tell us. We have no "visual" confirmation.

Earth curvature calculator says there would be 10 feet of hidden ground to height of target with view from 3 foot height (about the height of the telescope) to 6 mile distance. So how come they are 24 feet above the ground before they can be seen 6 miles away and not 10 feet above the ground?

There's something very fishy about these curvature tests over this lake. :think:

You think there is maybe a giant fish forming an obstruction, perhaps?

Probably there are NASA employees out there every day on that lake feeding those giant fish.

Stuart