lifeisgood
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The Trinity
- Thread starter Bright Raven
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lifeisgood
New member
I already have eternal life right now. It came to me the day I accepted Jesus the Christ as My Savior and My Lord and My God.
You, keypurr, on the other hand has declared that you have abandoned The Truth for a lie that came to you out of the blue. Purporting to believe the Aramaic instead of the Greek and then rejecting the Aramaic when the Aramaic proves you wrong.
lifeisgood
New member
How about this from the Aramaic:
1. “Miltha” has no direct English equivalent. It can mean ‘Word’, ‘Manifestation’, ‘Instance’ or ‘Substance’, among many other things. In this context, it is best left untranslated.
Context being John 1.
keypurr
Well-known member
Aramaic has not proved me wrong, neither have you. Aramaic reinforces my thoughts most of the time. It gives me a wider view of what the Greek mixed up.
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Apple7
New member
Apple7
New member
At 85, I thought that you would have put aside the smoke and mirrors routine by now.
Guess not...
keypurr
Well-known member
All this knowledge I stored up and now I have forgotten most of it. But the real important stuff I still got, just forgot where I put it. But one day I will remember where it is. If you find it you just be highly enlighten as to what is truth. That will be new to you for you do not have much at the moment. But God loves you so I will too.
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Apple7
New member
keypurr
Well-known member
I really have my friend. But I worry about you kid. I have failed to teach you the truth that I have. For that I apologize to you and my Lord. Someday you might say, I remember keypurr trying to show me that. I should have paid more attention to his thoughts.
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keypurr
Well-known member
Why would they for only the Father is God.
Trinity came into the church in three fourth century.
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keypurr
Well-known member
Everyone's time is running out apple7.
Time to listen, not talk.
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So true on both accounts! And still stands true . . .
That's the problem, the Trinity must always be "deduced" because it is nowhere plainly stated or spelled out in holy writ; and the natural man with his natural mind does not recognize the fact that he is being tested whenever he attempts to read holy writ. Just about anyone can deduce just about anything else from the scripture that he or she desires to deduce but that does not mean that what is deduced is what it truly says in overall context. Yet it still amazes me that someone will say something to the effect that, "Before Christ, the Jews did not know God was triune", and yet never give any thought to the possibility that this might be the case because they were better informed, (and therefore correct). Trinitarianism thereby creates a complete disconnect from its own root.
lifeisgood
New member
Sure it has proven you wrong, keypurr. You have chosen your own interpretation of "Miltha" to fit your 'wider view' of what you have mixed up in your 'all of a sudden' 'new revelation' that came to you 'from no where' and the Aramaic says that it is best to leave it 'untranslated' in the context of John 1.
1. “Miltha” has no direct English equivalent. It can mean ‘Word’, ‘Manifestation’, ‘Instance’ or ‘Substance’, among many other things. In this context, it is best left untranslated.
So, even you go against the sources you yourself provide.
keypurr
Well-known member
Your wrong again. The notes continue on, they only support what I already knew.
I told you folks to spend the forty bucks and get this translation. For folks like us who are not Hebrews, it teaches a lot. The notes are priceless. I will post it one more time for any one who is seeking a better understanding of scripture.
Www.aent.org
ARAMAIC ENGLISH NEW TESTAMENT
from Netware Press
Roth
It's my favorite translation out of the thirty that I have.
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csuguy
Well-known member
The Trinity is no simply matter to crack on either side of the debate. Especially for those who have not put in years of study into the scriptures, the writings of the Church Fathers, and Church History, there does appear to be substantial support for the idea scripture teaches that Jesus is God Almighty in some sense. There several proof texts for making such a claim, like John 1:1. Of course, it is just as easy to provide proof texts that he is not God Almighty, like John 14:28 where Jesus explicitly notes that the Father is greater than himself. Then you can get into that whole mess about him being a God/man and speculation on how that should influence our interpretation of such passages, etc.
To truly study the Trinity doctrine, to attempt to understand it, is to dive down the rabbit hole. Hence, the church has been content to declare it a mystery. Yet, a mystery that you MUST accept lest your very salvation be at stake! Never mind that it took hundreds of years to develop after Christ, never mind that it is never explicitly taught by scripture - nor implied for that matter. They assert it is a defining Christian belief, yet they can't defend such a proclamation. They use it as man-made standard to weed out the "true" believers from the "false" - a direct contradiction to Christs instructions (Matthew 13:24-30). Indeed, this is often the go-to reason for denying that sects like Mormonism are truly Christian - they don't bother with the false prophet(s) and scriptures. It's a lazy, but simple guide for the masses; easy to follow.
All this fuss over it - and yet what does it gain you to believe it? What do you lose if you don't? Scripture never declares that your salvation is dependent upon this or any other doctrine(s). Scripture rather says that your actions are what matter; they are what you will be judged by, not whether you held doctrine x, y, and z (but not q). If the Trinity somehow guided your actions it might have merit then, but it doesn't. Our role as Christians does not change based upon whether the Trinity is true or false. Morality doesn't change, the Gospel doesn't change, Love does not change. And God is love.
In the big picture the Trinity doctrine matters very little in of itself. But what does matter is the division it has been used to create - a measuring stick for your brothers and sisters in Christ.
To truly study the Trinity doctrine, to attempt to understand it, is to dive down the rabbit hole. Hence, the church has been content to declare it a mystery. Yet, a mystery that you MUST accept lest your very salvation be at stake! Never mind that it took hundreds of years to develop after Christ, never mind that it is never explicitly taught by scripture - nor implied for that matter. They assert it is a defining Christian belief, yet they can't defend such a proclamation. They use it as man-made standard to weed out the "true" believers from the "false" - a direct contradiction to Christs instructions (Matthew 13:24-30). Indeed, this is often the go-to reason for denying that sects like Mormonism are truly Christian - they don't bother with the false prophet(s) and scriptures. It's a lazy, but simple guide for the masses; easy to follow.
All this fuss over it - and yet what does it gain you to believe it? What do you lose if you don't? Scripture never declares that your salvation is dependent upon this or any other doctrine(s). Scripture rather says that your actions are what matter; they are what you will be judged by, not whether you held doctrine x, y, and z (but not q). If the Trinity somehow guided your actions it might have merit then, but it doesn't. Our role as Christians does not change based upon whether the Trinity is true or false. Morality doesn't change, the Gospel doesn't change, Love does not change. And God is love.
In the big picture the Trinity doctrine matters very little in of itself. But what does matter is the division it has been used to create - a measuring stick for your brothers and sisters in Christ.
Romans 14:4-10 Who are you to judge someone else’s servant? To their own master, servants stand or fall. And they will stand, for the Lord is able to make them stand.
5 One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind. 6 Whoever regards one day as special does so to the Lord. Whoever eats meat does so to the Lord, for they give thanks to God; and whoever abstains does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. 7 For none of us lives for ourselves alone, and none of us dies for ourselves alone. 8 If we live, we live for the Lord; and if we die, we die for the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord. 9 For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.
10 You, then, why do you judge your brother or sister[a]? Or why do you treat them with contempt? For we will all stand before God’s judgment seat.
5 One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind. 6 Whoever regards one day as special does so to the Lord. Whoever eats meat does so to the Lord, for they give thanks to God; and whoever abstains does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. 7 For none of us lives for ourselves alone, and none of us dies for ourselves alone. 8 If we live, we live for the Lord; and if we die, we die for the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord. 9 For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.
10 You, then, why do you judge your brother or sister[a]? Or why do you treat them with contempt? For we will all stand before God’s judgment seat.
do you believe we have been redeemed by what Jesus did?
csuguy
Well-known member
Yes; Jesus established the New Covenant with his blood through which we have forgiveness for our sins and reconciliation with God. This does not require the Trinity.
could Jesus have done this without suffering and dying?