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  • Originally posted by Bright Raven View Post
    Who created the World according to Colossians 1:16.

    Colossians 1:16 King James Version (KJV)

    16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
    Jesus was GIVEN the power to create BY HIS FATHER. That is why Paul words it this way in his letter to the Corinthians:

    "For us there is but one God, the Father, FROM WHOM are all things and we exist for Him." (I Corinthians 8:6, NASB)

    He goes on to say, after making it a point to say that all things come from the Father...and that means all power as well, that Jesus was the agent BY WHICH the Father made everything in the universe.

    Pretty clear and simple to me. The Father (Jehovah) is above all and the Source of all power and authority. He GAVE Jesus the power and authority to create.


    Hello-o!

    Comment


    • Originally posted by KingdomRose View Post
      Jesus was GIVEN the power to create BY HIS FATHER. That is why Paul words it this way in his letter to the Corinthians:

      "For us there is but one God, the Father, FROM WHOM are all things and we exist for Him." (I Corinthians 8:6, NASB)

      He goes on to say, after making it a point to say that all things come from the Father...and that means all power as well, that Jesus was the agent BY WHICH the Father made everything in the universe.

      Pretty clear and simple to me. The Father (Jehovah) is above all and the Source of all power and authority. He GAVE Jesus the power and authority to create.


      Hello-o!
      I don't know why they refuse to acknowledge this simple and clear fact.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Bright Raven View Post
        Your exegesis stinks.

        Verse 16 state conclusively that the Lord Jesus Christ is not the creature but the very Creator. The verse says that all things were created not only by Him, but through Him and for Him. He is the Person of the Godhead through whom the creative act was performed. Also all things were created for Him. He is the one for whom all things were created. I will take the commentary of the Believer's Bible Commentary above yours anyday.
        YOUR reasoning, if you can call it that, is what stinks. Obviously Jesus was created because he is called the FIRST BORN. Of creation! Of all things created! (The very first thing created, and by Jehovah Himself.) Hello-o! Then....Jehovah granted Jesus the power to create FOR him. Not too hard to understand.

        Or maybe it is for you.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by KingdomRose View Post
          Jesus was GIVEN the power to create BY HIS FATHER. That is why Paul words it this way in his letter to the Corinthians:

          "For us there is but one God, the Father, FROM WHOM are all things and we exist for Him." (I Corinthians 8:6, NASB)

          He goes on to say, after making it a point to say that all things come from the Father...and that means all power as well, that Jesus was the agent BY WHICH the Father made everything in the universe.

          Pretty clear and simple to me. The Father (Jehovah) is above all and the Source of all power and authority. He GAVE Jesus the power and authority to create.

          Hello-o!
          Do you really think that I believe in what you say when your cult changes scripture. Yes Jesus had the power to create. He is God. What would you expect? You conveniently only quote part of the verse. Here it is in full;

          1 Corinthians 8:6 King James Version (KJV)

          6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

          Now would you care to explain;

          John 1:1-3 King James Version (KJV)

          1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

          2 The same was in the beginning with God.

          3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

          John 1:10-11 King James Version (KJV)

          10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

          11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.


          And don't forget to add;

          Genesis 1:1 King James Version (KJV)

          1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
          He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose.

          Jim Elliot

          Comment


          • Originally posted by KingdomRose View Post
            YOUR reasoning, if you can call it that, is what stinks. Obviously Jesus was created because he is called the FIRST BORN. Of creation! Of all things created! (The very first thing created, and by Jehovah Himself.) Hello-o! Then....Jehovah granted Jesus the power to create FOR him. Not too hard to understand.

            Or maybe it is for you.
            Already answered. See post 852. You need to catch up and take notes

            2 Timothy 2:15 King James Version (KJV)

            15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
            He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose.

            Jim Elliot

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Lazy afternoon View Post
              Rev.ch s 4 and 5 verify that truth.

              Rev 4:10 The four and twenty elders fall down before him that sat on the throne, and worship him that liveth for ever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying,
              Rev 4:11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.


              Rev 5:6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.
              Rev 5:7 And he came and took the book
              out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne. Rev 5:8 And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.
              Rev 5:9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
              Rev 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
              Rev 5:11 And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands;
              Rev 5:12 Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing.
              Rev 5:13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever. Rev 5:14 And the four beasts said, Amen. And the four and twenty elders fell down and worshipped him that liveth for ever and ever.





              and also Heb. chs 1 and 2

              Heb 1:4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
              Heb 1:5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
              Heb 1:6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
              Heb 1:7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
              Heb 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
              Heb 1:9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
              Heb 1:10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands: Heb 1:11 They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment;
              Heb 1:12 And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail.


              Heb 2:5 For unto the angels hath he not put in subjection the world to come, whereof we speak.
              Heb 2:6 But one in a certain place testified, saying, What is man, that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man, that thou visitest him?
              Heb 2:7 Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands:
              Heb 2:8 Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him.
              Heb 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
              Heb 2:10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make ]the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

              IF any do not believe that, they follow the antichrists.

              LA
              Well, it looks as though you need to do some more research. Heb.1:8 quotes the O.T. Psalm 45:6. That Psalm, taken straight from the Jewish Publication Society Tanakh, doesn't say anything about the subject of the verses being God.

              "Your arrows, sharpened, pierce the breast of the king's enemies; people fall at your feet. Your divine throne is everlasting; your royal scepter is a scepter of equity. You love righteousness and hate wickedness; rightly has GOD, YOUR GOD, chosen to anoint you with oil of gladness over all your peers." (Psalm 45, verses 6-8)

              So when the writer of Hebrews quoted from this, did he write that the Son was God? No, and it can be understood that "Your throne, O God" was never the correct translation. "Your DIVINE throne," or, "God is your throne" (the power behind the throne), are correct. How can someone (erroneously) translate Heb.1:8 as "Your throne O God" when in the very next verse it says that the Son HAS a God????

              Start thinking, Lazy Afternoon.


              Comment


              • Originally posted by meshak View Post
                I don't know why they refuse to acknowledge this simple and clear fact.
                Because it is improper illiterate exegesis. She needs to learn to properly interpret the biblical text as do you.
                He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose.

                Jim Elliot

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Bright Raven View Post
                  All verse 15 gives is Jesus position as the firstborn over all creation. Is He not the firstborn from the dead never to die again?
                  It doesn't say "over" all creation. It says OF creation! He was PART of the creation! The very early church fathers realized that this meant that Jesus was created, and they immediately set about to twist the meaning so no one would really pay attention to it. They came up with silly meanings like what you present.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by KingdomRose View Post
                    It doesn't say "over" all creation. It says OF creation! He was PART of the creation! The very early church fathers realized that this meant that Jesus was created, and they immediately set about to twist the meaning so no one would really pay attention to it. They came up with silly meanings like what you present.

                    No dummy, that isn't what it says. It says He was the firstborn of creation. In no sense does it say or intimate that He is part of creation. That is a FALSE teaching of your cult. It is also commonly known that those of the early Fathers that say He was created were branded as heretics just as they are today. You can try to twist scripture all you want but it ain't gonna fly on a Christian forum. Totally ignored post 859 eh.
                    He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose.

                    Jim Elliot

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Bright Raven View Post
                      No dummy, that isn't what it says. It says He was the firstborn of creation. In no sense does it say or intimate that He is part of creation. That is a FALSE teaching of your cult. It is also commonly known that those of the early Fathers that say He was created were branded as heretics just as they are today. You can try to twist scripture all you want but it ain't gonna fly on a Christian forum. Totally ignored post 859 eh.
                      You refuse to concede a good point when it is presented to you. You just won't analyze someone's post and helpfully address what it is saying. You ignore the point and ram-rod right over it and just call names. It's pathetic. Your erroneous beliefs will be totally shown up when Jesus comes back to end this crazy system of things and implement Jehovah's plans for a new cleaned-up Earth...Paradise.


                      Matthew 5:5; Psalm 37:9-11; Isaiah 11:6-9

                      Comment


                      • Joh 5:21-23 KJV For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will. (22) For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: (23) That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.
                        If you anti-trinitarians really think that the LORD GOD Almighty would give ALL JUDGMENT to one of His created beings, there is no hope for you.
                        All of my ancestors are human.
                        Originally posted by Squeaky
                        That explains why your an idiot.
                        Originally posted by God's Truth
                        Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
                        Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
                        (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

                        1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
                        (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

                        Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by KingdomRose View Post
                          You refuse to concede a good point when it is presented to you. You just won't analyze someone's post and helpfully address what it is saying. You ignore the point and ram-rod right over it and just call names. It's pathetic. Your erroneous beliefs will be totally shown up when Jesus comes back to end this crazy system of things and implement Jehovah's plans for a new cleaned-up Earth...Paradise.


                          Matthew 5:5; Psalm 37:9-11; Isaiah 11:6-9
                          I am anxiously awaiting His return. You may be surprised at what happens when He does.
                          He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose.

                          Jim Elliot

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Right Divider View Post
                            Joh 5:21-23 KJV For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will. (22) For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: (23) That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.
                            If you anti-trinitarians really think that the LORD GOD Almighty would give ALL JUDGMENT to one of His created beings, there is no hope for you.
                            Why Not? He gave him his fullness.
                            Psalm 1[/COLOR] and Job 28:28

                            Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

                            Joh 4:23 "But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by keypurr View Post
                              Why Not? He gave him his fullness.
                              All the fullness of God. Hmmm... You better think about that.
                              He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose.

                              Jim Elliot

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Bright Raven View Post
                                All the fullness of God. Hmmm... You better think about that.

                                I have, why was it needed to be given to him?
                                Psalm 1[/COLOR] and Job 28:28

                                Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

                                Joh 4:23 "But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers.

                                Comment

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