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  • NWL
    replied
    Originally posted by WonderfulLordJesus View Post

    Like your theology. Anyway, is it just that there's nobody down at the Kingdom Hall to talk some God-lite Jesus or sleepy time hell with?
    There is a reason why I'm able to make such a statement, I have clearly demonstrated to Clete and others how is reasoning is mediocre. Your statement, however, which is childish as it seems to be an emotional response, is empty as you've nowhere demonstrated what you've claimed. People need to grow up.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bright Raven
    replied
    Originally posted by NWL View Post

    Arrogance really is your downfall Clete, let me show you how you're wrong once again, and watch how you will once again run away claiming you won't converse with anyone who you believe to be part of a cult as your excuse.

    Remember when I showed you the below image stating "I keep a picture of the below in my bible as I often have to teach Trinitarians what they themselves are meant to believe about the trinity", you are about to be a prime example of this feat it action, as you do not understand what you yourself are meant to believe, others will look and see your lack of ability to defend your beliefs.

    Click image for larger version Name:	images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcT1HQaACPI6poNo7SimyqUivcSL0ppOHf40LqGTaymOEITwEEk5.png Views:	0 Size:	6.3 KB ID:	2738870

    The Trinity doctrine teaches that the Father is NOT the Son and the Son NOT the Father as the above image shows, however, Isaiah 9:6 states the Son, namely Jesus, is the "eternal Father", the verse contradicts the trinity doctrine! You have no clue as to why Jesus is referred to as the "eternal Father" as you do not know the truth. You use John 10:30 to try and show Jesus and the Father being one as if this somehow explains why Jesus is specifically called the "Father" despite him not being the Father. Jesus and the Father being one has NOTHING to do with them being part of any trinity, how do we know this, because Jesus asked that his followers be one with him and the Father the same way he and the Father were one with each other, so they called all be one, "that they [my followers] may all be one, just as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they also may be in us" (John 17:21). How else do we know John 10:30 is not in relation to any trinity, because the trinity teaches that three are one, and not that two are one, which would be the case if the statement of "I and the Father are one" was in relation to the trinity.

    You once asked me the question of "What does the doctrine of the Trinity teach", if I answered you and said "there is one God, the Father and Jesus the Son" you would have laughed you *** off as I would be leaving out the third person of the trinity, yet that is what you claim Jesus answered when he said "I and the Father are one", the argument is not consistent. Jesus and the Father being once meant one in unity and not one in identity, hence why he asked the Father that his followers be one the same way they are one, any claim contrary to this would be unwittingly implying Christ-followers are also God since they are also one with him.

    Jesus is a mighty God, no Jehovah's witness denies this, we simply deny that he is the "one God" as the "one God" in the bible is clearly described as being the Father and Father alone (see 1 Cor 8:6). The context and language of Isaiah 9:6 denies that he possessed the epithets that were ascribed to him, it states "For a child has been born to us...His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace", I cannot say about the Queen of England, "her name will be called the Queen of England" as that would imply she is not currently the Queen of England, the correct wording would be "her name is the Queen of England". Likewise, if the Son is God eternal then he would have already been the Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father and Prince of Peace, as seen by the language of Isaiah 9:6 this is not the case.

    Your reasoning ability is mediocre at best, the same way it would be foolish and stupid of me to claim your "entire theological construct is destroyed" by what I've said above, it is stupid and arrogant of you to think you have bested an entire theological construct with your poor reasoning and comprehending skill.

    If you give a reply to one of my posts -be it directly or indirectly- do not be so naive to think I will not respond in kind. Let's wait and see how you mock, scoff and show your amazement as you excuse yourself for not having the ability to give a reply once again.
    Jesus is God. Get over it.

    Leave a comment:


  • WonderfulLordJesus
    replied
    Originally posted by NWL View Post

    Your reasoning ability is mediocre at best
    Like your theology. Anyway, is it just that there's nobody down at the Kingdom Hall to talk some God-lite Jesus or sleepy time hell with?

    Leave a comment:


  • NWL
    replied
    Originally posted by Clete View Post
    Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a Child is born,
    Unto us a Son is given;
    And the government will be upon His shoulder.
    And His name will be called
    Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God,
    Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

    Notice both "Son" and "Everlasting Father" as well as both "Mighty God" and "Prince of Peace".

    Just as Jesus Himself explicitly states "I and My Father are one.” (John 10:30)


    When one's entire theological construct is destroyed by a single verse of scripture and yet you cling to your doctrine anyway, you might be a cult member.
    Arrogance really is your downfall Clete, let me show you how you're wrong once again, and watch how you will once again run away claiming you won't converse with anyone who you believe to be part of a cult as your excuse.

    Remember when I showed you the below image stating "I keep a picture of the below in my bible as I often have to teach Trinitarians what they themselves are meant to believe about the trinity", you are about to be a prime example of this feat it action, as you do not understand what you yourself are meant to believe, others will look and see your lack of ability to defend your beliefs.

    Click image for larger version  Name:	images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcT1HQaACPI6poNo7SimyqUivcSL0ppOHf40LqGTaymOEITwEEk5.png Views:	0 Size:	6.3 KB ID:	2738870

    The Trinity doctrine teaches that the Father is NOT the Son and the Son NOT the Father as the above image shows, however, Isaiah 9:6 states the Son, namely Jesus, is the "eternal Father", the verse contradicts the trinity doctrine! You have no clue as to why Jesus is referred to as the "eternal Father" as you do not know the truth. You use John 10:30 to try and show Jesus and the Father being one as if this somehow explains why Jesus is specifically called the "Father" despite him not being the Father. Jesus and the Father being one has NOTHING to do with them being part of any trinity, how do we know this, because Jesus asked that his followers be one with him and the Father the same way he and the Father were one with each other, so they called all be one, "that they [my followers] may all be one, just as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they also may be in us" (John 17:21). How else do we know John 10:30 is not in relation to any trinity, because the trinity teaches that three are one, and not that two are one, which would be the case if the statement of "I and the Father are one" was in relation to the trinity.

    You once asked me the question of "What does the doctrine of the Trinity teach", if I answered you and said "there is one God, the Father and Jesus the Son" you would have laughed your *** off as I would be leaving out the third person of the trinity, yet that is what you claim Jesus answered when he said "I and the Father are one", the argument is not consistent. Jesus and the Father being once meant one in unity and not one in identity, hence why he asked the Father that his followers be one the same way they are one, any claim contrary to this would be unwittingly implying Christ-followers are also God since they are also one with him.

    Jesus is a mighty God, no Jehovah's witness denies this, we simply deny that he is the "one God" as the "one God" in the bible is clearly described as being the Father and Father alone (see 1 Cor 8:6). The context and language of Isaiah 9:6 denies that he possessed the epithets that were ascribed to him, it states "For a child has been born to us...His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace", I cannot say about the Queen of England, "her name will be called the Queen of England" as that would imply she is not currently the Queen of England, the correct wording would be "her name is the Queen of England". Likewise, if the Son is God eternal then he would have already been the Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father and Prince of Peace, as seen by the language of Isaiah 9:6 this is not the case.

    Your reasoning ability is mediocre at best, the same way it would be foolish and stupid of me to claim your "entire theological construct is destroyed" by what I've said above, it is stupid and arrogant of you to think you have bested an entire theological construct with your poor reasoning and comprehending skill.

    If you give a reply to one of my posts -be it directly or indirectly- do not be so naive to think I will not respond in kind. Let's wait and see how you mock, scoff and show your amazement as you excuse yourself for not having the ability to give a reply once again.
    Last edited by NWL; March 10, 2020, 11:15 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Clete
    replied
    Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a Child is born,
    Unto us a Son is given;
    And the government will be upon His shoulder.
    And His name will be called
    Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God,
    Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

    Notice both "Son" and "Everlasting Father" as well as both "Mighty God" and "Prince of Peace".

    Just as Jesus Himself explicitly states "I and My Father are one.” (John 10:30)


    When one's entire theological construct is destroyed by a single verse of scripture and yet you cling to your doctrine anyway, you might be a cult member.



    Leave a comment:


  • 7djengo7
    replied

    Originally posted by NWL View Post

    The bible actually expresses Jesus is the agent through which the one God the Father created all things, the Father is the ultimate source of creation, Jesus admits that he himself lives because of the Father proving that he was not always eternal and gained his life from the creator the Father, "Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so also the one who feeds on me will live because of me" (John 6:57).
    Jesus had no beginning, you Satan-serving Arian.

    Here is the verse you are defiling:

    "As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by (διὰ) the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by (διὰ) me." (John 6:57)

    You fail dismally, again, here, because nowhere in this verse do we read that Jesus had a beginning, or that the Father created Jesus, or that Jesus' existence is less than entirely coextensive with that of the Father. Jesus says, "I live (present tense, not past tense!!) by the Father", and not "I began to live by the Father", nor "I was created by the Father", nor "I came to exist because of the Father".

    As usual, all you are doing is trying to impose your anti-Christ, extra-Biblical assumption of unitarianism onto the Bible.

    Originally posted by NWL View Post
    Speaking of the Father it states "Long ago God spoke to our forefathers by means of the prophets on many occasions and in many ways. 2 Now at the end of these days he has spoken to us by means of his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the world.(Hebrews 1:1, 2). 1 Cor 8:6 goes on to express that all things are through Jesus but from the Father, the Father is the source of creation and creator, Jesus is merely the agent the Father used to create all things, the same way an architect uses a builder to build a structure the Father, the architect, used Jesus, the builder, to create the world, "there is actually to us one God, the Father, from whom all things are and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are and we through him. (1 Corinthians 8:6).
    Notice how your brethren--the lying, hypocritical Satanists who created your "New World Translation" perversion of the Bible--chose to put the word, "through" (which you've underscored, above), for the Greek, διὰ, in 1 Corinthians 8:6 (i.e., "Jesus Christ, through whom all things are", rather than, "Jesus Christ, because of whom all things are"), despite the fact that the same liars chose to put the phrase, "because of", for the same Greek word, in John 6:57 (i.e., "I live because of the Father", rather than, "I live through the Father").

    If you weren't the hypocrite that you are, then you'd not be trying to hide--as does Satan, through your Russellite programmers/handlers at the Watchtower Society-- the fact that "there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, BECAUSE OF whom all things are".


    Leave a comment:


  • NWL
    replied
    Originally posted by tuoraciondeldia View Post
    John 1 1-3 states; "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

    2 The same was in the beginning with God.

    3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

    The Word was Christ and the Bible says He was God and the creator of ALL

    Source: cantos catolicos
    The bible actually expresses Jesus is the agent through which the one God the Father created all things, the Father is the ultimate source of creation, Jesus admits that he himself lives because of the Father proving that he was not always eternal and gained his life from the creator the Father, "Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so also the one who feeds on me will live because of me" (John 6:57).

    Speaking of the Father it states "Long ago God spoke to our forefathers by means of the prophets on many occasions and in many ways. 2 Now at the end of these days he has spoken to us by means of his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the world.(Hebrews 1:1, 2). 1 Cor 8:6 goes on to express that all things are through Jesus but from the Father, the Father is the source of creation and creator, Jesus is merely the agent the Father used to create all things, the same way an architect uses a builder to build a structure the Father, the architect, used Jesus, the builder, to create the world, "there is actually to us one God, the Father, from whom all things are and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are and we through him. (1 Corinthians 8:6).

    Leave a comment:


  • Clete
    replied
    Originally posted by tuoraciondeldia View Post
    John 1 1-3 states; "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

    2 The same was in the beginning with God.

    3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

    The Word was Christ and the Bible says He was God and the creator of ALL

    Source: cantos catolicos
    Amen!

    Leave a comment:


  • tuoraciondeldia
    replied
    John 1 1-3 states; "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

    2 The same was in the beginning with God.

    3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

    The Word was Christ and the Bible says He was God and the creator of ALL

    Source: cantos catolicos

    Leave a comment:


  • Clete
    replied
    Originally posted by lifeisgood View Post

    Gist of the video: Trinity is an OT concept.
    That might count as a headline but not a gist. It's hardly more than you offered when you posted the link and said it was a Jewish concept.

    Can you post at least one of the arguments made in the video? If it's a descent argument, perhaps people will be motivated to actually watch the video. Think of it as analogous to a teaser or trailer. Try to do something to pique people's interest enough that they'll be willing to invest the time to watch a two hour long video.

    Leave a comment:


  • lifeisgood
    replied
    Originally posted by Clete View Post

    Instead of simply posting a link to a two hour long video that next to no one is going to bother to watch, why not post the gist of the video?

    Tell us the major points discussed in the video and how they are supported.
    Gist of the video: Trinity is an OT concept.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ktoyou
    replied
    Originally posted by popsthebuilder View Post
    100% GOD
    +100% man
    ________
    200% being

    But wait; what about the Holy Spirit

    300%

    But all that was within one person who is actually three people.

    400%



    You know just one hundred percent equals a whole right?

    If one person has three persons fully within them then how does that not equal four persons?



    Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk
    No. you have some learning to do. Keep an open mind and attend a bible study class. Do not think you can just think it out yourself.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bright Raven
    replied
    What's so hard to understand?

    John 1:1 King James Version (KJV)
    1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.


    John 1:14 King James Version (KJV)
    14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

    Acts 5:3-4 King James Version (KJV)
    3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?

    4 Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bright Raven
    replied
    Originally posted by Idolater View Post
    'Sure does.
    So then you believe in a triune God?

    Leave a comment:


  • Idolater
    replied
    Originally posted by Bright Raven View Post
    Your quoted scripture points to a triune God as do John 1:1 and 14.
    'Sure does.

    Leave a comment:

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