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  • Originally posted by KingdomRose View Post
    No sir, and it's sad so many are letting themselves be taken to the spiritual cleaners.

    There are verses in the New Testament which might appear to support the traditional doctrine of the trinity, but good research in the Scriptures and the history of the doctrine has brought me and many others to the conviction that "the case for the trinity rests on questionable treatment of the biblical documents" (stated by Anthony Buzzard & Charles Hunting in their interesting book, The Doctrine of the Trinity, Christianity's Self-Inflicted Wound).

    The case for the trinity "ignores the massive evidence for unitary monotheism--the belief in one God as a single person, the Father of Jesus Christ--and relies heavily on inference from a few select verses." It isolates certain texts and forgets that their context is the whole of Scripture.

    Doctrines must be built upon plain, straightforward texts. After much research by a number of Biblical experts, many of them now admit that the trinity doctrine cannot be documented in the Bible, and is truly a distortion of Bible teachings. It is my desire, and that of other non-trinitarians, that people will examine the evidence that counters the trinity doctrine with an open mind.

    Church historians have recorded that believers in God as a single person were "at the beginning of the third century still the large majority." (Encyclopedia Britannica, 11th edition, Vol.23, p.963)

    Present-day fundamental Christianity claims to believe in the inerrancy of Scripture and the authority of Christ, and yet they have never come to believe in a statement made by Christ himself that summed up his feeling & knowledge of his Father: "This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You sent." (John 17:3) Are they totally insensitive to the warning issued by Jesus when he said, "In vain they worship me, teaching as doctrines the commands of men"? (Matthew 15:9) Have they fallen under the spell of theological leaders, mainly from the 2nd to the 5th century, when they allowed their Greek philosophy backgrounds to corrupt the Hebrew thought which formed the basis of the young Christian church?

    Neither the Old Testament nor the New Testament offer evidence for the doctrine of the trinity. A person can establish this fact by a careful, open-minded examination of the Biblical writings. There is no passage of Scripture that asserts that God is three, no authentic verse which claims that the one God is three persons, three spirits, three divine infinite minds, or three anything. Any claim that there are three who make up the Deity must be based on inference, rather than plain statements. The trinitarian concept relies on often tortured logic which lacks solid support in the earliest Christian writings.

    The NASB Bible contains 807,361 words.
    Of those, about 807,000 words are clearly Unitarian.

    All the words in the scriptures that are used to support a Trinitarian view fall into the remaining 361 or so words.

    So, why do most Trinitarians get upset at Unitarians?
    Learn to read what is written.

    _____
    The people who are supposed to be experts and who claim to understand the science are precisely the people who are blind to the evidence.
    ~ Dr Freeman Dyson

    Comment


    • Originally posted by keypurr View Post
      The WORD is the spiritual son of God, the express image of God. God is not flesh, God is a spirit. You fail to understand that the express image of a spirit is another spirit, not a man. This spirit was sent to be in The body God prepared for him. God needed a perfect body to hold the godlike spirit to act and speak for him. The WORD was dwelling in the man Jesus, jesus was flesh, he did not need to become flesh. The spirit however needed to dwell in a body to become flesh. The Lamb of God is flesh.

      Come out of the darkness brother, Christ is knocking on your door.
      You can't even take three verses and put them together to show an elemental basic truth of the Christian Faith. How do you expect to make sense of the rest?
      He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose.

      Jim Elliot

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Right Divider View Post
        Some PROOF of that would be wonderful.

        1 John 2:7
        7 Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning.



        1 John 2:24
        24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.



        Originally posted by Bright Raven View Post
        I'm not. You have claimed that 1 John 1:1-2 are. You do not believe in the eternality of Jesus.

        1 John 1:1-3
        1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;
        2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us; )
        3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.


        Nowhere in these two verses does it mention the eternality of Jesus.
        From the beginning of the ministry of Jesus, the disciples heard Him, saw Him, and touched Him.

        John then goes on to make a very Unitarian statement:

        1 John 1:5-7
        5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
        6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
        7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

        Learn to read what is written.

        _____
        The people who are supposed to be experts and who claim to understand the science are precisely the people who are blind to the evidence.
        ~ Dr Freeman Dyson

        Comment


        • Eternal means that life is everlasting not that it had no beginning.
          Only the Father had no beginning.
          Psalm 1[/COLOR] and Job 28:28

          Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

          Joh 4:23 "But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by genuineoriginal View Post
            The NASB Bible contains 807,361 words.
            Of those, about 807,000 words are clearly Unitarian.

            All the words in the scriptures that are used to support a Trinitarian view fall into the remaining 361 or so words.

            So, why do most Trinitarians get upset at Unitarians?
            References please.
            He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose.

            Jim Elliot

            Comment


            • Originally posted by keypurr View Post
              Eternal means that life is everlasting not that it had no beginning.
              Only the Father had no beginning.
              WRONG! as usual. Check a reference first. This is from dictionary.com

              eternal
              [ih-tur-nl]
              Spell Syllables
              Synonyms Examples Word Origin
              adjective
              1.
              without beginning or end; lasting forever; always existing (opposed to temporal ):
              eternal life.
              2.
              perpetual; ceaseless; endless:
              eternal quarreling; eternal chatter.
              3.
              enduring; immutable:
              eternal principles.
              4.
              Metaphysics. existing outside all relations of time; not subject to change.
              noun
              5.
              something that is eternal.
              6.
              the Eternal, God.
              He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose.

              Jim Elliot

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Bright Raven View Post
                References please.
                You need to get permission from Knight before posting 807,000 words of the Bible that are Unitarian in viewpoint.
                Learn to read what is written.

                _____
                The people who are supposed to be experts and who claim to understand the science are precisely the people who are blind to the evidence.
                ~ Dr Freeman Dyson

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Bright Raven View Post
                  You can't even take three verses and put them together to show an elemental basic truth of the Christian Faith. How do you expect to make sense of the rest?

                  I think I clearly stated what I see as truth. I know most do not discard the fables they have been taught to go deep enough to find truth. The truth is right if front of your nose BR. Jesus was born as a man to be the Saviour of mankind. But that is not what makes him God or Godlike. It was the SPIRIT in him that was a created form of God, that spoke through Jesus and brought light into this world. Why do you turn away from the words of your Lord when he says that his Father is the only true God? Who do you wish to please, God or man?
                  Psalm 1[/COLOR] and Job 28:28

                  Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

                  Joh 4:23 "But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by keypurr View Post
                    You have a lot to learn friend. Jesus did not come down from heaven. The true son is a spirit like his father. The EXPRESS image of God and he was given powers you can not imgine he has. Man did not create the Universe, the spirit of God did. God created all things through this spirit. The spirit son came down to dwell in the body prepared for him in Heb 10:5. Jesus became the Christ at his anointing. Your theology is shallow church theology, go deeper RD. The Lamb of God needed to be a man. Jesus was that man. But God sent his true son to live and speak through him.
                    Gnostic nonsense from a pagan. Sorry for you keypurr. You're in for a hell of a shock when you meet the Lord.

                    As I told you BEFORE, you have NO IDEA what the WORD "express image" means. It's a SINGLE, NON-COMPOUND Greek word.

                    charaktēr

                    Nowhere in scripture can you find that Jesus was taken over by a SECOND spirit. He ALWAYS had the Spirit of God because HE IS GOD.
                    Mat 3:16-17 KJV And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: (17) And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
                    Notice, you heathen idolater, that the Spirit of God lighted UPON Him. It did NOT enter Him or take Him over or any other such thing.
                    All of my ancestors are human.
                    Originally posted by Squeaky
                    That explains why your an idiot.
                    Originally posted by God's Truth
                    Father figure, Son figure, and Holy Spirit figure.
                    Col 2:9 (AKJV/PCE)
                    (2:9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

                    1Tim 4:10 (AKJV/PCE)
                    (4:10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

                    Something that was SPOKEN OF since the world began CANNOT be the SAME thing as something KEPT SECRET since the world began.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by genuineoriginal View Post
                      You need to get permission from Knight before posting 807,000 words of the Bible that are Unitarian in viewpoint.
                      NO, NO, NO. You have no reference for posting what you did and now you have no way to get out of the web you have spun. You should be able to give a simple reference for your work where other scholars agree with you.
                      He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose.

                      Jim Elliot

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Bright Raven View Post
                        WRONG! as usual. Check a reference first. This is from dictionary.com



                        eternal

                        [ih-tur-nl]

                        Spell Syllables

                        Synonyms Examples Word Origin

                        adjective

                        1.

                        without beginning or end; lasting forever; always existing (opposed to temporal ):

                        eternal life.

                        2.

                        perpetual; ceaseless; endless:

                        eternal quarreling; eternal chatter.

                        3.

                        enduring; immutable:

                        eternal principles.

                        4.

                        Metaphysics. existing outside all relations of time; not subject to change.

                        noun

                        5.

                        something that is eternal.

                        6.

                        the Eternal, God.

                        Will we be eternal? If so, we had a beginning.
                        Psalm 1[/COLOR] and Job 28:28

                        Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

                        Joh 4:23 "But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Bright Raven View Post
                          WRONG! as usual. Check a reference first. This is from dictionary.com

                          eternal
                          [ih-tur-nl]
                          Spell Syllables
                          Synonyms Examples Word Origin
                          adjective
                          1.
                          without beginning or end; lasting forever; always existing (opposed to temporal ):
                          eternal life.
                          2.
                          perpetual; ceaseless; endless:
                          eternal quarreling; eternal chatter.
                          3.
                          enduring; immutable:
                          eternal principles.
                          4.
                          Metaphysics. existing outside all relations of time; not subject to change.
                          noun
                          5.
                          something that is eternal.
                          6.
                          the Eternal, God.
                          When does the Bible state that eternal life begins?

                          Mark 10:30
                          30 But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life.


                          Maybe in this case, eternal means without end but does not mean without beginning.
                          Learn to read what is written.

                          _____
                          The people who are supposed to be experts and who claim to understand the science are precisely the people who are blind to the evidence.
                          ~ Dr Freeman Dyson

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by keypurr View Post
                            I think I clearly stated what I see as truth. I know most do not discard the fables they have been taught to go deep enough to find truth. The truth is right if front of your nose BR. Jesus was born as a man to be the Saviour of mankind. But that is not what makes him God or Godlike. It was the SPIRIT in him that was a created form of God, that spoke through Jesus and brought light into this world. Why do you turn away from the words of your Lord when he says that his Father is the only true God? Who do you wish to please, God or man?
                            Again you show your ignorance. The spirit of God is not created.
                            He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose.

                            Jim Elliot

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Right Divider View Post
                              Gnostic nonsense from a pagan. Sorry for you keypurr. You're in for a hell of a shock when you meet the Lord.

                              As I told you BEFORE, you have NO IDEA what the WORD "express image" means. It's a SINGLE, NON-COMPOUND Greek word.

                              charaktēr

                              Nowhere in scripture can you find that Jesus was taken over by a SECOND spirit. He ALWAYS had the Spirit of God because HE IS GOD.
                              Mat 3:16-17 KJV And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: (17) And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
                              Notice, you heathen idolater, that the Spirit of God lighted UPON Him. It did NOT enter Him or take Him over or any other such thing.

                              Your the one speaking as a child, read Acts 10:38 and see where the POWER was given to Jesus at that time. Your words are showing what kind of spirit is driving you RD.
                              Psalm 1[/COLOR] and Job 28:28

                              Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

                              Joh 4:23 "But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by genuineoriginal View Post
                                When does the Bible state that eternal life begins?

                                Mark 10:30
                                30 But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life.


                                Maybe in this case, eternal means without end but does not mean without beginning.
                                Why don't you stay out of things that are not addressed to you. It was given to keypurr not to you. But, the again, you need to see it to since you deny the truth of 1 John 1:1-2. Jesus is eternal and possessing that attribute is therefore God.
                                He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose.

                                Jim Elliot

                                Comment

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