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  • Originally posted by God's Truth View Post
    How do we change to be saved?

    We do what Jesus says.

    What does Jesus say?

    Jesus says a lot of things.

    Get Jesus' teachings and obey them.

    That is how one searches and finds God.

    Start by doing the first thing Jesus preached in his earthly ministry...

    Repent or perish.

    Luke 13:3 I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.


    Jesus says we have to admit we are sinners and repent of those sins.


    We have to change our hearts, just as Jesus says.

    We are to change and become as little children who do EXACTLY as they are told.


    Matthew 18:3 And he said: "Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.


    Did yo read that? You will NEVER ENTER unless you do what?
    I agree

    Comment


    • Originally posted by God's Truth View Post
      Lifeisgood and Marhig, you are a Calvinists, or close to their thinking such as a Lutheran.

      You try to speak about the trinity when you do not even believe and understand the milk of the truth.
      I don't even know what a Calvinist or a Lutheran is.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Rosenritter View Post
        Then when Jesus said that "whomever loses his life for my sake shall find it" he didn't know that Salvation has nothing to do with doing anything? Or that bit about he who puts his hand to the plough and looks back is not fit to enter the kingdom of God?

        It looks like to me that you are trying to force marhig into saying something he hasn't. Christ's sacrifice covers all sins, but that sacrifice must be 1) accepted and 2) acted on. Christ's forgiveness is given with the admonition, "Go and sin no more." Trees that produce no fruit shall be rooted up and destroyed. Faith without works is dead, and no faith at all.
        Although I don't believe in the cross as you do, I agree with your post and regarding go sin no more and faith without works being dead. And I don't see it as my works, but living out the works of God in my heart, and denying myself, turning from sin and obeying God. By the way, I'm a woman

        Comment


        • Originally posted by marhig View Post
          I have never said that Jesus didn't have to go through what he went through, Jesus had to drink from the cup set before him. God knew beforehand what satan would do to Jesus, and it was prophesied in the old testament. But I don't see that Jesus dying in the cross saves us. Why would God, come into flesh for no other reason than to be a human sacrifice to save us. It makes no sense! We are saved by his life, just as it says in the Bible.
          Because God absorbs the penalty for our sins. That is what it means to forgive. The sins are against God thus his to forgive, not another. God came down to be our sacrifice because that's how he shows that he really cares. He doesn't delegate love for someone else to express.

          May I present you with a riddle please? Just this once I will ask you not to look in your Bible. Just read it and post the answer, based on what you read here, then look.

          (1) ... The earth is the LORD'S, and the fulness thereof; the world, and they that dwell therein.
          (2) For he hath founded it upon the seas, and established it upon the floods.
          (3) Who shall ascend into the hill of the LORD? or who shall stand in his holy place?
          (4) He that hath clean hands, and a pure heart; who hath not lifted up his soul unto vanity, nor sworn deceitfully.
          (5) He shall receive the blessing from the LORD, and righteousness from the God of his salvation.
          (6) This is the generation of them that seek him, that seek thy face, O Jacob. Selah.
          (7) Lift up your heads, O ye gates; and be ye lift up, ye everlasting doors; and the King of glory shall come in.
          (8) Who is this King of glory?

          Question. Who is this King of glory?

          Comment


          • Originally posted by God's Truth View Post
            Calvinists' training camp would look like enemy soldiers snake crawling in the dirt to deceive those Christians who have already came to God by belief in the truth, because they can only give that crazy doctrine to those who have already believed. lol
            We use the Bible

            Comment


            • Originally posted by TulipBee View Post
              We use the Bible
              Maybe controversy with Calvinists could take up another thread on that topic?

              Comment


              • Originally posted by marhig View Post
                I see so clearly through everything I read i the new testament that God is the God of Jesus even Paul talks about Jesus being under subjection to God, and that God was in Jesus reconciling the world unto himself. I just can't see that Jesus is God. Jesus even said plainly that God is his father and his God also. And he calls God the only true God and that he is Jesus Christ whom God has sent. I have to believe what I read, I believe Jesus when he says that God is his God. I just don't see how that can be changed. Jesus even said he came not to do his will, but the will of the father who has given him commandments and he does them, as that God has exhalted Jesus. God wouldn't have given Jesus commandments or exhalted Jesus if he was God already.

                To me when the apostles said the God of our lord Jesus Christ, they meant just that, and they were full of the holy spirit, Thomas wasn't, I believe that when Thomas said my lord my God, he saw God in Jesus. I see God in Jesus clearly, I just don't see that he is God. It even says in the Bible that Christ is the head of man and God the head of Christ. You can't get it any more plainer than that, to me anyway. Do you know what he means by the first and the last? First and the last of what? Beginning and the end of what? I'm just wondering what churches believe to this, thanks.
                If God was made manifest and walked among is in the flesh (which the Gospel of John tells us in the first chapter),
                And if it was not his purpose to announce himself right away (as we maybe allowed to suppose),
                Then is he allowed to understate his importance, and who he really is, like the King that pretended to be a beggar?

                If God were to enter his own creation,
                Perhaps analogous as the way a programmer might enter his own program as a normal user,
                Then wouldn't he also follow all the laws and rules that a normal user would be subject to?

                If Jesus were just a man, then he cannot claim to be God, to take his role, position, titles, name. That would be blasphemy.
                But if Jesus were God, he can do all these things, and still refer to himself as a man, and give honor to God, as he is following the rules and walking a mile in our shoes.
                Thus, being found in fashion as a man does not necessarily conflict with the possibility of Jesus indeed being God. God in the flesh would acknowledge God above as his God, as he certainly is not "godless" and has no other god. His authority on earth is from God in heaven, where else would it be from?

                You would need a definitive ironclad statement from Jesus that he is NOT God in order to prove one theory. But when given opportunity to deny such, when accused of making himself God, when people worshiped him, when Thomas declared him as Lord and God in that many words, he did not deny this.

                For the other theory, does Jesus actually call himself God? Does he take the name? You asked "what does he mean by the first and the last?" I'll gladly answer that, but would you like to take a shot at that first? What does your Bible say about the first and the last? It's a specific reference to Isaiah. I had a friend ask me this exact same question years ago. Can we answer this specific question here and now?

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Rosenritter View Post
                  Maybe controversy with Calvinists could take up another thread on that topic?
                  Maybe you can start one

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by TulipBee View Post
                    We use the Bible
                    You use the Bible and use the scriptures that you have been taught wrong.

                    If you teach to people who are not yet believers, you would have to tell them they do not believe and will not ever be saved and believe because God does not want them.

                    However, the Calvinists usually try to get those who already believe and then teach those believers the perverse way of Calvinism.

                    If you teach someone yet to believe that God does not ever want them to believe, will that not solidify their unbelief?

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by marhig View Post
                      I don't even know what a Calvinist or a Lutheran is.
                      How in the world do you ever get that means you were not taught by someone else who DOES?

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by marhig View Post
                        I agree
                        You agree?! You have been saying it is nothing we do, but then I give scripture that proves we have to do something and now you say you believe that.

                        See that is why I know you have been influenced by false teachers, for you say the exact same things they say, but when you hear the truth you say you believe; but when it comes to you describing your beliefs and explaining them, you repeat what the false teachers say.

                        False teachers like to say it is nothing we do, it is nothing we do. BUT THAT IS THE VERY WAY WE RECEIVE SALVATION---by something WE DO! What do we have to do to get to God the Father, who is ETERNAL LIFE? WE. HAVE. TO. DO. WHAT. JESUS. SAYS. TO. DO.

                        I am the way and the truth and the life. See John 14:6.

                        Think about what Jesus says, and tell me why you miss that we have to do what the truth and life says to get where we want to go.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by God's Truth View Post
                          You agree?! You have been saying it is nothing we do, but then I give scripture that proves we have to do something and now you say you believe that.

                          See that is why I know you have been influenced by false teachers, for you say the exact same things they say, but when you hear the truth you say you believe; but when it comes to you describing your beliefs and explaining them, you repeat what the false teachers say.

                          False teachers like to say it is nothing we do, it is nothing we do. BUT THAT IS THE VERY WAY WE RECEIVE SALVATION---by something WE DO! What do we have to do to get to God the Father, who is ETERNAL LIFE? WE. HAVE. TO. DO. WHAT. JESUS. SAYS. TO. DO.

                          I am the way and the truth and the life. See John 14:6.

                          Think about what Jesus says, and tell me why you miss that we have to do what the truth and life says to get where we want to go.
                          I don't know what on earth you're going on about, but you've got me all wrong, faith without works is dead. I've said right along that we must obey God and turn from sinning. And that wilful sinning isn't acceptable with God. When I say it's nothing I do. I mean in my heart, I'm not the one changing my heart, the holy spirit does that. But I absolutely believe that we are to obey God and deny ourselves turn from sin and follow Jesus.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Rosenritter View Post
                            If God was made manifest and walked among is in the flesh (which the Gospel of John tells us in the first chapter),
                            And if it was not his purpose to announce himself right away (as we maybe allowed to suppose),
                            Then is he allowed to understate his importance, and who he really is, like the King that pretended to be a beggar?

                            If God were to enter his own creation,
                            Perhaps analogous as the way a programmer might enter his own program as a normal user,
                            Then wouldn't he also follow all the laws and rules that a normal user would be subject to?

                            If Jesus were just a man, then he cannot claim to be God, to take his role, position, titles, name. That would be blasphemy.
                            But if Jesus were God, he can do all these things, and still refer to himself as a man, and give honor to God, as he is following the rules and walking a mile in our shoes.
                            Thus, being found in fashion as a man does not necessarily conflict with the possibility of Jesus indeed being God. God in the flesh would acknowledge God above as his God, as he certainly is not "godless" and has no other god. His authority on earth is from God in heaven, where else would it be from?

                            You would need a definitive ironclad statement from Jesus that he is NOT God in order to prove one theory. But when given opportunity to deny such, when accused of making himself God, when people worshiped him, when Thomas declared him as Lord and God in that many words, he did not deny this.

                            For the other theory, does Jesus actually call himself God? Does he take the name? You asked "what does he mean by the first and the last?" I'll gladly answer that, but would you like to take a shot at that first? What does your Bible say about the first and the last? It's a specific reference to Isaiah. I had a friend ask me this exact same question years ago. Can we answer this specific question here and now?

                            Jesus never claimed to be God, he never once said I am God or I am God the son, he only ever called himself the son of God, and the son of man never God.

                            We can go on and on, but we're not getting anywhere. To me it's clear in the new testament that God is the God of Jesus, I've explained over and over why I believe that to be so, and I believe Jesus when he says that God is his father and his God. There can't be anything clearer than that.

                            I've quoted verse after verse after verse as to why I believe the way i do. But they are just dismissed yet they clearly show that God is the God and head of Christ and that Christ is under subjection to God. I have to believe Jesus before anyone and he said God was his God and that there is only one true God and Jesus Christ whom he has sent. And there's one God, and one mediator between man and God, Jesus Christ.

                            I can on and on and but, we're just going round in circles. Quoting the same scriptures, we see things differently but only God knows both our hearts and only he can judge us.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by marhig View Post
                              I don't know what on earth you're going on about, but you've got me all wrong, faith without works is dead. I've said right along that we must obey God and turn from sinning. And that wilful sinning isn't acceptable with God. When I say it's nothing I do. I mean in my heart, I'm not the one changing my heart, the holy spirit does that. But I absolutely believe that we are to obey God and deny ourselves turn from sin and follow Jesus.
                              The controversial "turn from sin and follow Jesus" belief. No wonder it's sparked a hot debate.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Rosenritter View Post
                                The controversial "turn from sin and follow Jesus" belief. No wonder it's sparked a hot debate.
                                I really can't understand why people don't believe that they are to turn from sin if we are to follow Jesus. Do you believe that we should? I do!

                                Comment

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